Most effective fat burners?

ok i am stupid as i didn't realise that the forum carried on after page one hahaha anyone have any clue how much SA anabolic cost to send stuff? also must i cycle eca and WASP like 2days ECA and 2 Days wasp? maximum dosage a day of wasp? also is powdered Yohimbine just as effective as the liquid form?

djeasye wrote:

ok i am stupid as i didn't realise that the forum carried on after page one hahaha anyone have any clue how much SA anabolic cost to send stuff? also must i cycle eca and WASP like 2days ECA and 2 Days wasp? maximum dosage a day of wasp? also is powdered Yohimbine just as effective as the liquid form?

If your order is more than R1000 then the delivery is free, else you will have to pay R40 extra.

You can cycle ECA and WASP, but I would do it 2 weeks ECA and 2 weeks WASP if I were you. I think you can actually use WASP for longer periods than Clen and ECA. The bottle says that the maximum dose is two caps, but you can probably use more. I would say that the injectable is more effective mg for mg.



I bought myself a 200ml bottle of strawberry flavored Adco-Ketotifen for R69.00
I've started taking it with 80mcg Clen today... will keep everyone updated.

well that sounds like a winner then,how do i order from them?just email them and wait for a reply? u recon that ketotifen will also help when taking eca?coz the appetite suppressing factors seem to be like lost when u take it for to long... hmmmmmm coz if it does then we cooking with gas,and ephadrine and yohimbine i would take the injectable BUT,its frikken expensive here in durban,been looking around and yea cheapest i've seen from reputible pushers is R700 for 20mls,for that price i'd rather take capsules that last longer!

so what u think is better? Reverzine or WASP? what do u guys recommend? WASP seems to be cheaper and last longer ---> major plus... but reverzine is site injectable...hmmmmm....thats a major plus too,,,

djeasye wrote:

so what u think is better? Reverzine or WASP? what do u guys recommend? WASP seems to be cheaper and last longer ---> major plus... but reverzine is site injectable...hmmmmm....thats a major plus too,,,

Have you used a Yohimbine product before? If you haven't you should probably buy WASP first and if it works well for you, you can \"upgrade\" to Reverzine.

no i have not used yohimbine products before,used clen and eca plenty though...

OK, let me just get in here.
Yohimbe is something you can use everyday - you don't need to cycle it. The injectable, called Reverzine, is used for suppressing labour in cows by causing smooth muscle fibres to relax, very similar to what Clen does, but Clen stimulates the Beta2 receptors to achieve this. Yohimbe does this by blocking alpha2 receptors. But it is quit strong in injectable form. The norm is to use this as initial dose of 0.25ml twice daily and slowly work it up to max inj dose of 0.5ml twice daily.The Reverzine has 1mg per 0.1 ml Yohimbe HCl. Yohimbe is an alpha2 receptor antagonist - so, using Ketotifen with it will not enhance its effects. Ketotifen, as I have mentioned earlier, only works on upgrading the beta receptors . In oral form, you can obtain Yohimbe HCl as of pharmaceutical grade, but it is very expensive - the last quote that I got , was R25 000 per one kilo of pure Yohimbe HCl. It is mostly used in capsules as a standardized dosage of powdered Yohimbe bark. In this form, it is much cheaper - my last batch I obtained, was about R500 for ± 400gr of 3% standardised Yohimbe Tree bark. I made capsules obtaining 300mg of powder per capsule - this rendered dosage of 9mg per cap. It should be taken with food in this form, as the bark irritates the stomach. You start with low dose and slowly work up to tolerable dose levels. Try to take it 3 x per day. As I have mentioned, it can be safely used in oral doses up to 40mg/24h. Just see what this stuff does to your erections. This is what it primarily was intended to do - alpha receptor blokage opens up the arteries in your penis's carposal tissues by relaxing the smooth muscle tissue in arterial walls. Yohimbe can also be found as standardized tictures, made by Homeopaths. These work very nicely, because it is in droplet form and gets absorbed from under your tongue. Then there is the injectable Homeopathic solutions - one I have used, is called Reckeweg 41. Ask any Homeopathic Doctor - they will know.
As to Lipo-6, I see they have now again brought out an improved liqui-cap product - this AGAIN has the origional dose of 3mg YohimbeHCl per capsule, but the bottle's label has a warning. Yohimbe should not be used if you have uncontrolled blood pressure or any heart arrythmias. How long can you use Yohimbe? As long as you want to... It has the beneficial effects on your erections, lowers average blood pressure and burns stubborn brown adipose tissue that usually accumulates in men around thier mid-sections - this in itself being a definite risk factor for Type 2 Diabetes later in life.

About ephedrine. Ephedrine HCl is the purest form - and also the most dangerous. Eph HCl is used in its injectable form to elevate blood pressure when a patient's BP \"crashes\" during anaesthetic. This is potent stuff! Most deaths due to sliming mixtures are attributed to the use of Eph HCl. Used in its herbal form, called synephrine, is much safer, much more controlable dosage, mostly without the jittery effect, but just as effective as Eph HCl. Just because it does not give jitters, does not mean it is not working! I use a product called FATCUT from Nutrition Lab - it works very good without giving you the jittery side effect. Using the pure form Eph HCl will give you side effects, ranging from dry mouth, palpitations, urine retention, severe insomnia, visual disturbances, just to name a few. The other problem with using the pure form, is having receptor down regulation quite quickly. Within 4 weeks, you will have to start increasing doses, but that follows with increased side effects. This I have not found to be the case with the herbal form Synephrine. PseudeEphedrine is used in Flue Meds, like Drixine at usual doses of 120mg per dose. This can be used as alternative, 120mg giving the effective dose of ± 50mg pure Eph HCl. But still the same side effects.

About \"home made\" ECA stacks.
The ratio of the E:C:A is very important. This has exhaustively been tested and found that 50mg Eph HCl:200mg Caffeine:300mg Aspirin to be the optimal dose.This should not be taken more than 2-3 x per day. Aspirin is easy and cheap, but gives you stomach irritation and stomach ulcers in the long run. Caffeine is easy to take - just take 2 Alert tabs and that equals 180mg caffeine anhydrous. If you can obtain the pure Eph HCl powder, try and mix PRECISELY 5 grams of the powder to 500ml of distilled water, this will give you a solution of 10mg Eph HCl to 1 ml water. Now take this bitter tasting shit as 2,5ml 3 x per day as INITIAL dose and SLOWLY work up to MAX 5ml 3 x p day.
I can not tolerate even the lower dosage - it just irritates my stomach too much. Taking synephrine:white willow bark:Thermo-Green Tea extract gave me the same results, but no side effects at all. There are many well balanced herbal products out there, I have tried to say most of them. The one that personally works the best for me, as I said, is the Nutrition Labs FATCUT.

How much Ketotifen? Usual effective dose for adults and kids = 2mg/24h, but for body building 3 mg/24h is the effective dose combined with Clen. To cycle ketotifen is NOT necessary. To cycle Clen when using Ketotifen - also NOT necessary!

Thanks guys - this one of the most interesting strings yet!

Sorry, I meant ONE tablet Alert is equal dose of 180mg Caffeine Anhydrous.

dude you are like a hive of information

is it possible for me to take reverzine with ECA or is it not advisable?

i know this is probably gonna get a couple laughs outta some people but can u explain to me how beta and alpha cells work when it comes to fat burning???

your really know your shit i wont lie!!

also are Guggelsterones all that they are made out to be? i mean people recon they are the shit but is it really all that and a bag of chips? i see some new products are coming out with 20mg of Guggelsterones and i dunno what the story is if they really all that and a bag of chips,or are they?

Beta and alpha receptors are just some of the body's receptors - there are many and the way the work, is very complicated. All you need to know, for now, is that stimulating the Beta receptors(beta2 in lung tissue and beta3 in muscle tissue) and blocking alpha receptors(alpha2) will produce a thermogenic effect, amongst the ways of increasing thyroid hormone output - enough said!

Yeah, you can use ECA and Yohimbe the same time. It definitely is synergistic in working, as you are hitting two different receptor sites. Just be careful with side effects - if you feel any of such being of discomfort to you, just back off your dosage a bit.

Guggulsterones. Great supplement! It supplements the Thyroid to produce more endogenous T3. Combined with L-thyrosine, guggulsterones are documented to be of a great help in rehabilitating your thyroid, especially if it has been stressed with to long thermogenic supplementation use(ie. ECA, ect.). One such product is made by Solal-Pharmaceuticals, called Thyroid Repair. This is something to consider when going off your T3 cycle.

There is a very informative site on herbals, ect. It's called www.nutros.com .
Bro, go check it out!

cool i shall do that.ok next question on my list,has anyone got a contact for me to get hold of reverzine. there is no one that i know who has stock in durban and i have phoned 10 different gear heads...

djeasye wrote:

cool i shall do that.ok next question on my list,has anyone got a contact for me to get hold of reverzine. there is no one that i know who has stock in durban and i have phoned 10 different gear heads...

DJEasyE...

Contact Phil at SA Anabolic Review via e-mail. I'm sure he will be of great help 2 u!

Kraz

Doctari!

I have been following this trend for some time now and it looks like you know your stuff.

I have a question for you regarding some supplementation that I have read about.

They are CLA and Guarana where do they fit into fat burners and what is there purpose.

Thanx.

Interesting question - wondered when this was going to pop up!

This is going to be a bit scientific...

Guarana is a herb that contains a substance called guarinine, which is very similar to caffein found in coffees. The guarinine is about 2.5 times stronger in effect to that of similar dosage of caffein. The big difference is that caffein in coffee is in its anhydrous form and acts very quickly, but just as quickly drops off in about one hour, BUT guarinine is extracted from the herbal plant guarana and is a fatty substance-like powder than has a slow release over 3-4 hours. The average cup of coffee will yield about 100mg caffein, with effect of one hour. Guarinine as only 40mg dose, will give the same effect but for 4 x longer!

Caffein belongs to a group called METHYLXANTHINES. Its buddies in this group are Theophyllin and Theobromide - both used in asthma treatments. How these agents work, is not clear yet - all we know is that caffein is the one that has the most neurological effects.
Amongst these effects, it gives a feeling of well being, increases through neurological modulators the central thermogenic effect of the body by activating the beta-receptor pathway of energy release from fatty tissues. This is what we still don't understand - it is in essence not a beta-receptor stimulant, but has the effect of one. It is postulated that this effect is not a local acting one at receptor level, but rather central acting one(brain), this is also where guarinine's appetite supressing effect comes from. Ever felt hungry and then drink a strong cup of coffee and within an hour, you're not hungry anymore?
Another interesting thing about guarinines is that, in some animal studies done recently, it was found that using guarinine on long term, decreases your adipose(fat) cells by as much as 50%!

CLA. This is the abbreviation for Conjugated Linoleic Acid, a slightly altered chemical form of the essential fatty acid Omega-6(C17H31COOH). It is called essential, as a shortage of it, severily hampers natural growth - so the body needs it on a daily basis. CLA's mechanism of working is very complex - I will not bore you with it. It decreases adipose tissue volume(thus shrinks the cells) by preventing the excess accumilation of glucose and triglycerides in the adipose tissues. People get fatter when the adipose tissue cell's volume expands due to glucose and triglyceride load. CLA further enhances fat loss by improving insulin sensitivity and stimulating energy expenditure via beta-oxidative pathways that use fatty acids as fuel.

These are good supplements to use as part of your everyday diet. They not only prevent further fat accumulation, but also helps in deceasing the number, as well as the size of your adipose tissue cells, thus preventing Diabetes in the long term. It delivers an extremely good synergism when using both these supplements in a combination.
To my knowledge, there is only one product currently locally produced that has the dosages used in the scientific tests as mentioned above, and that is the CLA Stack Advanced Body Toner made by Nutrition Lab.

Beebob, what product are you currently using? Are you using two different products with these ingredients, or one that has both?

Ok doctari..

You view on sesamin?

Doctari,

Is it possible for an ECA-Stack to have an effect on woman's menstrual cycles? Three of my female customers asked me about this lately... two reported a delay in the cycle, while the other one mentioned a complete absence. As far as I know it's only steroids that cause these symptoms, but my knowledge in female steroid usage is very limited.

The effects seems to be dosage related... the first two only took 2 tabs per day, while the last one took 3 per day. All three of them used Nomad ECA-Stack.

BTW: None of them are pregnant.

whats the best brand on ECA's to get hold of? what do you guys think of the nomad eca's? are they anygood? i've heard they contain psudeo ephedrine not the Hydrocloride or am i being told a pile of poo? and by the way,still no reply from phil at SA-anabolic

also another question,how long must i take ECA before taking a break? like 2weeks on 1 week off?or can i do two weeks ECA and two weeks CLEN? is there anything i can take to suppress my hunger whilst on clen?

djeasye wrote:

whats the best brand on ECA's to get hold of? what do you guys think of the nomad eca's? are they anygood? i've heard they contain psudeo ephedrine not the Hydrocloride or am i being told a pile of poo? and by the way,still no reply from phil at SA-anabolic

I'd say go for HEAT, there seems to be a lot of strange side-effects with Nomad ECA... and yes, the Nomad Stack contains psudeo ephedrine.

djeasye wrote:

still no reply from phil at SA-anabolic

Strange, I spoke to him a few hours ago... try to mail him using a different email address, maybe his anti-spam filter deletes your emails.

djeasye wrote:

also another question,how long must i take ECA before taking a break? like 2weeks on 1 week off?or can i do two weeks ECA and two weeks CLEN? is there anything i can take to suppress my hunger whilst on clen?

Yeah, you can use ECA for two weeks and then Clen for two weeks, but I bought myself some Ketotifen and now I'm using the Clen continuously. I'm not sure what can be used to suppress the hunger, but I can assure you that if you add Ketotifen to your cycle, it becomes 10x worse. :S

oooooooooh ok...well hmmmm if phil would get back to me i'd order but it seems like he doesnt love me hehe... ummm what about hoodia? does that not suppress hunger?

djeasye wrote:

oooooooooh ok...well hmmmm if phil would get back to me i'd order but it seems like he doesnt love me hehe... ummm what about hoodia? does that not suppress hunger?

I have no experience with Hoodia, but it is a appetite suppressant, so it should work.

neither have i thats why i asked.... hmmm well i am starting clen on sunday (been on ECA for two weeks now) so i am gonna give it a bash with the ketofen and see what its like when i bust out hoodia...

Keep us updated, I would like to know if this Hoodia stuff works.

Usaul cycle for ECA is not for longer than 4-6 weeks, then break for 2 weeks atleast. Herbal form you can usually stretch to 8 weeks, but then 2 weeks off.
No reason why you can\"t use ECA and Clen together- if you can tolerate it.

About the ladies:
Very difficult to say. Many reasons. They might have lost too much weight in too little a time, stressing their hormonal balance. They could have suppressed their Thyroid function a bit with too high a thermogenic effect, they could have fallen under their body's critical weight. Some woman stop menstruating when they loose too much weight too quickly... Known fact is that women who weigh less than 45kgs after adolescence, usually stop menstruating.
It will be a good thing to assess their FSH/LH levels, as well as Thyroid function test. They could also be using some possible testosterone boosters that will have an effect.

To help suppress apetite, try any product containing guarana...