Psy's First Cycle

Hey all,

Alright - so I know this is the 3rd time I have brought up a cycle but this time it is actually happening.
I know some might frown but I have gotten to the point where I am going to do it anyways

Stats:
24
1.63m
53KG
Under 12% BF

Diet:
My maintenance is 2000 calories.
I plan on eating 2500 calories a day with the following macro split:

Carbs: 40% (250g) Fats: 30% (83g) Protein: 30% (188g)
I can adjust carbs to 45% and protein to 25% if recommended?



Proposed Cycle:

I have Aromasin on hand.
I will be taking ONE Cycle Support from day one until I am done with my bridge (is this correct)?

I have already ordered all except the bridge (winstrol).
I have enough Dbol to start out at 30mg and increase to 40mg - would this be recommended or should I stick to 30mg?

I will be getting bloods done before I start pinning, what would be the essentials to get tested pre-cycle so that I have reference to see how well I am / have recovered after my PCT? Testosterone and what else?


Lastly, I am currently following Layne Norton's PHAT program. Would it be recommended to change to a different program or is this perfect to continue following?


Thanks,
Psy

Very similar to my cycle. All of the best my man.

Would just FSH, LH & Testosterone be alright or is it highly recommended to get my E2 done again (had it done within the last 6 months and have never touched any gear).

Going to try get it done this weekend if possible.

Stock standard Cyp/DBol cycle. Some comments:
Stop the Winstrol two days before start of Clomid.
Run Proviron with the Winstrol
Clomid @50mg for two weeks instead, then start Nolva thereafter.

30mg dbol is fine for your weight. I would take in more protein imo. 500 surplus calories on off days, try 1000 surplus on workout days. Pending your goals...

Pyroclasm wrote: Stock standard Cyp/DBol cycle. Some comments:
Stop the Winstrol two days before start of Clomid.
Run Proviron with the Winstrol
Clomid @50mg for two weeks instead, then start Nolva thereafter.

Thank you!

I will start Winstrol 2 days sooner then

Just read up a bit more about proviron - does sound pretty good. Let me see if I correctly understand how it will benefit my cycle:

• Will help free up some test which I still have in my body - will help me out as I am no longer providing exogenous testosterone.
• Will help (a bit) reduce excess water
• Will assist in keeping me anabolic and androgenic (high androgenic rating means less likely of me becoming catabolic and my body using muscles as an energy source)
• Might assist in some fat loss
• Will potentate the effects of winstrol

What would the best dose be for the proviron? 20MG ED? 40MG ED?

Noted on the Clomid @ 50mg a day and Nolva following the extended Clomid period.

PsyCLown wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote: Stock standard Cyp/DBol cycle. Some comments:
Stop the Winstrol two days before start of Clomid.
Run Proviron with the Winstrol
Clomid @50mg for two weeks instead, then start Nolva thereafter.

Thank you!

I will start Winstrol 2 days sooner then

Just read up a bit more about proviron - does sound pretty good. Let me see if I correctly understand how it will benefit my cycle:

• Will help free up some test which I still have in my body - will help me out as I am no longer providing exogenous testosterone.
• Will help (a bit) reduce excess water
• Will assist in keeping me anabolic and androgenic (high androgenic rating means less likely of me becoming catabolic and my body using muscles as an energy source)
• Might assist in some fat loss
• Will potentate the effects of winstrol

What would the best dose be for the proviron? 20MG ED? 40MG ED?

Noted on the Clomid @ 50mg a day and Nolva following the extended Clomid period.

Theoretically yes, in real life that shit doesn't happen. Why I recommend Proviron during your bridge:
1) Main reason: Proviron binds to SHBG sites instead of the DHT, which means there is more free DHT in your system and this massively affects results. Remember it's the 'free' (unbound) part of steroids that does all the work.
2) Slightly decreases estrogen, which comes in handy during the bridge period where your hormones fuck out.
3) 40mg is a great sweet spot.

FIllet wrote: 30mg dbol is fine for your weight. I would take in more protein imo. 500 surplus calories on off days, try 1000 surplus on workout days. Pending your goals...

I want to try and make the most of the cycle however I do not want to pickup too much excess fat. I would like to still remain lean - within reason ofcourse as I understand I will gain water weight and since I am bulking gaining fat is inevitable. If you say 500 surplus on off-days and 1000 on training days then I shall trust you and do that!

Therefore my goals are basically to gain as much lean mass as possible and if I am able to shed some fat, that is a bonus! I do not expect to. I understand majority of my weight gained will be water weight especially with the dbol however I am very curious as to how that will affect my physique and I think the extra weight in general will be a welcomed change to my physique.


@Pyro, fantastic! Thank you



Now one thing which is worrying me a bit is the fact that I think I will end up with some acne. I have a few red spots on my back, when I was younger it use to be a bit worse although over the past year it seems to have improved - I think diet has helped - however there are still a few spots. It was never terrible, I never had full on white pimples, scars or scabs.

Regardless I still think that it is the most likely side effect I am going to experience. Is there anything I can do / take / use to help reduce any possible acne and keep it under control?

I would rethink the DBol your acne will likely flare up again badly hey. Winstrol might also increase the skin sides. Have you considered TBol? Anavar? Much better for skin sides.

The acne might not be an issue see how you go skin could just be a bit oilier I find if my estrogen gets up I get spots on my upper arms but an AI sorts it out. Keeping skin clean will also help, if it does get out of hand a low does of accutane normally works just have to watch the liver if you running other orals.

Pyroclasm wrote: I would rethink the DBol your acne will likely flare up again badly hey. Winstrol might also increase the skin sides. Have you considered TBol? Anavar? Much better for skin sides.

Hmm, it has never been terrible like in some of the picture I see when I Google back acne.
This is a picture I got off the internet, although I'd say it has looked like this previously at its worst - it was actually and "after" picture for back acne, so I think it is mild.

I am thinking let me try dbol and see - I won't know until I have tried. I can stop the dbol if it does get bad and at least that way I know for future reference.

Is there really nothing which could be used to assist with acne though? A side from higher estrogen if I am not mistaken, if so would running an AI during cycle not assist in keeping it under control?


EDIT: I see Lobo replied while I was making this post

Agree with pyro depends what you using.

The cream benzac (benzoyl peroxide) is also quite effective worth a try.

Hey Psy, just some quick thoughts from my side, usual disclaimer blah blah.

1) Pretty clean cut cycle for a 1st. Doubt you'll have much friction against it on these boards.
2) Diet: IMO that's a lot of fats. If it was me I'd cut back.
3) I think I mentioned this to you before, or to somebody with a similar build and cycle set out so forgive me if I am repeating. You are going to gain, fast. Be prepared for the verbal praise and criticism from those around you. Especially if you are on D-bol. So I am pro T-bol/ Var.
5) Before TRT my skin was crystal clear and blemish free. On test I get facial acne, spots on my back and occasionally on my chest. This is going to be especially prevalent in summer for you. Given, you have been given good advice above.

Cheers mate. Best of luck, I know you'll get results what ever you decide.

Hey Psy. I'm starting nearly the exact same cycle on the 2 Jan. Just some minor differences on my side:

I'm running dbol slightly longer (40mg for 37 days) because I wanted to run it as long as is still safe to fully experience it's effects.

I've replaced Winstrol with Tbol (40mg ED) in the bridge and am running it along side proviron (40mg ED). I used both tbol and winstrol in my previous cycle and had a much better experience with Tbol.

As someone has already said, running clomid @ 50mg for 2 weeks instead of 100 for 1. I felt really shitty and emotional on 100mg clomid.

Good luck my bro! Will be good to compare experiences seeing as our cycle is so similar.

Iron K

Oh and I also double my HCG dose in the last two weeks of the bridge before I go onto clomid.

IronKobra767 wrote: Oh and I also double my HCG dose in the last two weeks of the bridge before I go onto clomid.

Hmm, interesting. I will need to get another bottle of hcg if I want to do the same as right now 1 bottle is the exact amount I need. I guess doubling the hcg dose for the last two weeks before PCT would assist with your lowering test and possibly with recovery as well?


Replacing Winstrol with TBol during the bridge is an interesting one.
I can also do Anavar, although that is a bit pricier - roughly double I think.

I have a bit of time to reconsider what to do during my bridge at least.

Yeah. I stock up on two vials of hcg before the cycle. Partly because I need for to increase the dose at the end, but also because I find the potency diminishes with time, so don't like to use the first bottle through the whole cycle. Especially because I want to make sure it is fully effective during my bridge.

IronKobra767 wrote: Yeah. I stock up on two vials of hcg before the cycle. Partly because I need for to increase the dose at the end, but also because I find the potency diminishes with time, so don't like to use the first bottle through the whole cycle. Especially because I want to make sure it is fully effective during my bridge.

How long do you normally wait before switching over? 3 weeks?

Psy just before a month is up after you have mixed the hcg pre load your insulin syringes with the hcg and freeze them.

lobo wrote: Psy just before a month is up after you have mixed the hcg pre load your insulin syringes with the hcg and freeze them.

Hmm, interesting.

I think at the 3 week mark I will do that then. To defrost you just place it in the fridge?
Then after each hcg injection I will take another syringe out the freezer and leave it in the fridge to deforst and stay cool and be 100% ready by the next time I need to inject.

Thanks for that!

Psy, ja thaw in a cold environment, fridge is best bet.

On the winstrol vs. anavar topic: I faced this decision a long time ago and 1 factor I considered was that for a pleasant run of winny I would've needed to stock up on joint support and increase liver supps. I can guess that Winstrol for me would suck because my elbow joints frequently pain anyway. So the nett cost of my cycle would've gone up anyway. Winstrol also has an androgenic side that's not prevalent in Var.

Not pushing you towards Anavar/T-bol, just letting you know.

Furk wrote: Psy, ja thaw in a cold environment, fridge is best bet.

On the winstrol vs. anavar topic: I faced this decision a long time ago and 1 factor I considered was that for a pleasant run of winny I would've needed to stock up on joint support and increase liver supps. I can guess that Winstrol for me would suck because my elbow joints frequently pain anyway. So the nett cost of my cycle would've gone up anyway. Winstrol also has an androgenic side that's not prevalent in Var.

Not pushing you towards Anavar/T-bol, just letting you know.

Thanks Furk.

I do not have any joint pains, unless I actually hurt myself.
With anavar my main two concerns are the price - it is roughly double the price as well as the fact that for it to work best you need to be lean and I am unsure how lean I will be coming out of this cycle - not sure what the likelihood of me losing fat vs gaining fat is since I have never cycled before.

Although after all the advice I have received I am seriously considering anavar & proviron during my bridge or if I feel I am not lean enough for anavar to be really beneficial, perhaps tbol & proviron?


With regards to dbol as a kickstart, I will run that and see how I react to it and drop it if need be (if sides get really bad) and then at least I have learnt and know for future reference.

Just a heads up: HCG during cycle ravages your skin. In your case I would rather go for HCG during PCT with Nolvadex.

Hi PsyCLown,

Could you please help me understand?

Why do you have a 'bridge' in your cycle? I do not consider Winstrol to be a 'milder' steroid, if that is the reason why you have a bridge in your cycle?

If I understand correctly, I will just stack my cycle and finish it off with the PCT?