Views in a bulking cycle liquid diet

Hi guys,

I’ve been experimenting a bit in the kitchen this cycle and wondered if anyone had any views on a predominantly liquid diet. I have a number of reasons for wanting to try this, which I don’t need to get into now. Just wondered if anyone had nutritional justifications for perhaps NOT continuing down this path (I’m looking at you Furk). I’ve been on this diet for two weeks now, since I started my cycle and I feel great.

I know it’s a little more unconventional, but to my mind I’m getting all my calories from healthy, real food sources and am easily able to achieve the calorie count I need. Not to mention the superior protein quality from eggs. Then to add in an extra chicken / tuna / mince meal during the day later on as my weight increases on cycle is easy enough.

So basically in the morning I prepare the following:

6 large whole eggs, scrambled in a pan. Once scrambled, I throw the cooked eggs into my blender along with the following: 1 tbl spoon unsalted, sugar free natural peanut butter; 1 tbl spoon olive oil; 1 tbl spoon raw honey; 30g blueberries; 1 medium banana; 1 tbl spoon cinnamon; 500ml 2% milk; 1 serving Nutritech 100% whey.

Blend this up and then I divide it into two shakers. Essentially 2 meals consisting of the following macros each: 650 calories, 42g protein, 45g carb, 35g fat. Let’s call this shake one and two.

I’ll pack this into my cooler bag for work along with a 200g chicken, 200g sweet potato, broccoli meal in a separate container.

Then in the evening when I get back from training, I’ll whip up another 6 eggs but remove the yolks. Then all the same ingredients except: I remove the banana and blueberries and add 100g raw oats. Without the egg yolk, calories are slightly less at 590 cal per shake now: 40g protein, 50g carb, 24g fat. Call this shake three and four.

So my diet for the day would be:

06h00: 30g whey and supergreens supplement

09h00: shake one

12h00: shake two

14h30: chicken, sweet potato, broccoli

18h00 Post-workout: 30g whey, 1 scoop Evolve CreaGen (I use this for the Vitargo content)

19h00: shake three

20h00: shake four

21h00: 30g Cassein, tblspoon avocado oil, 300ml 2% milk

Total calories for the day are 3923. 312g protein, 305g carb, 160g fat.

Any thoughts / critiques are welcome.

Iron Kobra

Hey IK, I'll give some input later tonight. I browse the forums in breaks
Just to update me, you last post for your 2nd cycle was end November. Is that cycle done and dusted? Then this meal plan would be planning for next?
Cheers bro chat later.



PS: Although I don't always leave comments, I try to read most of whats new on the forums.

Furk wrote: Hey IK, I'll give some input later tonight. I browse the forums in breaks
Just to update me, you last post for your 2nd cycle was end November. Is that cycle done and dusted? Then this meal plan would be planning for next?
Cheers bro chat later.



PS: Although I don't always leave comments, I try to read most of whats new on the forums.

My second cycle started on Sunday 2nd January 2016 bud. Standard test cyp and dbol bulking cycle. Tbol and proviron as a bridge to PCT. So I'm two weeks in and have been following the diet posted above.

Thanks bro.

Iron K.

Liquid diet? Really??

Pyroclasm wrote: Liquid diet? Really??

Whole foods. Just blended. No good Pyro?

It's not better than eating whole meals but if your schedule is beyond hectic and this is the only way to step up to your macros then go for it.

Iron Kobra,

My issue with liquid dieting is when the words "juicing" and "detox" get thrown in. For bulking purposes however, I thinking liquidizing meals is great. Notice I said liquidizing meals, implying whole foods are used.

1) You still get the fibre in the food. Absolutely not the case in of "liquid extraction" or MRPs.
2) Quick to consume. Convenient AF.
3) Easy to carry. Convenient AF.
3) You aren't changing the chemical structure of the food. It's nutritional value is retained.
4) In some certain circumstances, a liquidised meal might keep you fuller than the equivalent solid meal, alongside a glass of water. It's to do with how it sits in your stomach. "Brothy" soup (not that instant Knorr shit) is a good example
5) Freeze it containers for future use. Convenient AF.

IK, the thing with your diet setup is, you still have a bunch of solid "dry" food meals. I'm not sure if your concern would be digestion or nutrient absorption? But it looks 100s.
My question is IK, your shake is extremely elaborate, I especially don't understand why the inclusion of olive oil and honey? That's from me, not from science. Look if your diet has been working for you, nobody can talk badly of it.

My personal post workout shake is liquidised: 10 fl oz. cooked egg whites + cup of blueberries + small banana/some pineapple. If no fruit around I sub with FutureLife High Protein porridge. Blueberries and pineapple are elite-tier fruits.

Pyroclasm wrote: It's not better than eating whole meals but if your schedule is beyond hectic and this is the only way to step up to your macros then go for it.

Both are whole food meals. I am guessing you mean solid?

Anyway, the question in this regard is not "If liquid is better than solid" but, "If liquidising takes away benefits from solid equivalent."

No. The answer is no. Zap the hell out that oats.

Pyroclasm wrote: It's not better than eating whole meals but if your schedule is beyond hectic and this is the only way to step up to your macros then go for it.

Thanks Pyro. My concern was less whether it's better than eating solids and more whether it's worse (digestion, nutrient absorption, possible nutrient damage from blending, lack of fibre, etc). Thanks for the input.

Iron K

Furk wrote: Iron Kobra,

My issue with liquid dieting is when the words "juicing" and "detox" get thrown in. For bulking purposes however, I thinking liquidizing meals is great. Notice I said liquidizing meals, implying whole foods are used.

1) You still get the fibre in the food. Absolutely not the case in of "liquid extraction" or MRPs.
2) Quick to consume. Convenient AF.
3) Easy to carry. Convenient AF.
3) You aren't changing the chemical structure of the food. It's nutritional value is retained.
4) In some certain circumstances, a liquidised meal might keep you fuller than the equivalent solid meal, alongside a glass of water. It's to do with how it sits in your stomach. "Brothy" soup (not that instant Knorr shit) is a good example
5) Freeze it containers for future use. Convenient AF.

IK, the thing with your diet setup is, you still have a bunch of solid "dry" food meals. I'm not sure if your concern would be digestion or nutrient absorption? But it looks 100s.
My question is IK, your shake is extremely elaborate, I especially don't understand why the inclusion of olive oil and honey? That's from me, not from science. Look if your diet has been working for you, nobody can talk badly of it.

My personal post workout shake is liquidised: 10 fl oz. cooked egg whites + cup of blueberries + small banana/some pineapple. If no fruit around I sub with FutureLife High Protein porridge. Blueberries and pineapple are elite-tier fruits.

100% and thank you. Succinctly responded to my concerns and I share your views on all counts.

In terms of the elaborate nature of my shakes; basically the sum of ingredients I believe to be beneficial for my bulking goals as well as overall health. (E.g. honey is rich in nitric oxide metabolites and olive / avo oil is a great source of mono - unsaturated fats).

Do you manually extract your yolks? I can't seem to find a well priced reliable source of egg whites in cape town.

In terms of your points 1 - 5.... I had a chuckle and had to post this:



You're a champ Furk. Thanks again.

Iron K.

Ok, disclaimer: I have a personal vendetta against sugar.

You can eat beetroot if you are concerned with NO in my opinion.
Poly-unsaturated fats > Mono. Why are you concerned with getting in Mono though? There's plenty around.

Just trying to understand your reasoning mate, no quarrels.

Egg whites: No I buy it by the quart from Woolworths.

Furk wrote: Ok, disclaimer: I have a personal vendetta against sugar.

You can eat beetroot if you are concerned with NO in my opinion.
Poly-unsaturated fats > Mono. Why are you concerned with getting in Mono though? There's plenty around.

Just trying to understand your reasoning mate, no quarrels.

Egg whites: No I buy it by the quart from Woolworths.

Good question bud. I probably viewed mono as an easy and healthy way to bump the calories. Not sure how I'd do that with polyunsaturated fats. I supplement with omega 3 fish oil but don't count that as calories.

IronKobra767 wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote: It's not better than eating whole meals but if your schedule is beyond hectic and this is the only way to step up to your macros then go for it.

Thanks Pyro. My concern was less whether it's better than eating solids and more whether it's worse (digestion, nutrient absorption, possible nutrient damage from blending, lack of fibre, etc). Thanks for the input.

Iron K

O okay now I see what you were asking! The way I understand it when you process food in any way you change the structure and then you change the rate of absorption (I.e. the GI). So it will take less energy for your body to digest the food and also your insulin will reach higher peaks. You will probably lose a guesstimate 200 cals burned from not digesting the food.

Pyroclasm wrote: The way I understand it when you process food in any way you change the structure and then you change the rate of absorption (I.e. the GI)

Firstly:
Glycemic Index = rate of absorption (talking about the nutrients I am assuming)
Glycemic Index = conversion to glucose = an indication of how rapid blood sugar will be raised.
So let’s get this clear, frosting your broccoli with table sugar will not yield better iron absorption.

Chopping up food is not the equivalent of heating it. Not all processing methods are equal. Heating, chopping smaller, changing state, introducing enzymes, and using acids are all possible ways to process. Heating organic objects does change the chemical nature. It may, and most likely does, alter Glycemic Index, among other things. Notably it makes many foods easier to cleave and absorb nutrients from. In the case of vegetables, it is almost definite that it will make it easier to digest, and raise the GI. But doing so renders the food easier for the human gut to get nutrients from. There are some examples where cooking a food slightly decreases it's GI.

Not all fibre responds the same way of being processed by attempting to chop them up, because, there is more than one type of fibre. The fibre in the oats for example, when chopped up will probably end up soaking more water, thus assisting it's role.

In the case of non-grain plants we eat, a lot of value is stored in the pulp, skin, peel, seeds/pips etc. As long as these are kept in the mix, there is no problem. So, like I said above, the issue is using extractors that filters the product.

Pyroclasm wrote: You will probably lose a guesstimate 200 cals burned from not digesting the food.

Bro that statement has no substantiation. Not disputing that it takes energy to digest food. TEF But such specifics, if you know how to calculate TEF fast, teach is. But I just don't overcook veg and hope for the best.



In closing: Even if there is a food that I don’t understand properly how it reacts to being chopped up finely, there are solid foods to keep him from worrying. That’s why I mentioned above IronKobra’s other meals and how liquid meals make up only a portion of the day. Plus, the foods he chooses and methods he uses in liquidising, makes his case of even stronger.


IronKobra, enjoy your gains. I am sure 3900 cal will yield some.

All kinds of science up in this bitch

I do know how to calculate TEF which is why I gave the guestimate that I did- so do not tell me that what I say is completely unsubstantiated. Furk I don't agree with your view on this but I am not going to argue further with you.

Thanks for the input guys. Always humbled by the knowledge of the members here. And appreciate the robust debates.

Furk you said 3900 cal will yield SOME gains. You think I should be aiming for a higher count on cycle?

Iron K.

IronKobra767 wrote: Thanks for the input guys. Always humbled by the knowledge of the members here. And appreciate the robust debates.

Furk you said 3900 cal will yield SOME gains. You think I should be aiming for a higher count on cycle?

Iron K.

Being modest and sarcastic. I have no doubt you will gain. 3923 cal, 312g protein, 305g carb, 160g fat. That's an insane amount for myself.
Remind me how much you weigh?

Furk wrote:

IronKobra767 wrote: Thanks for the input guys. Always humbled by the knowledge of the members here. And appreciate the robust debates.

Furk you said 3900 cal will yield SOME gains. You think I should be aiming for a higher count on cycle?

Iron K.

Being modest and sarcastic. I have no doubt you will gain. 3923 cal, 312g protein, 305g carb, 160g fat. That's an insane amount for myself.
Remind me how much you weigh?

Currently weighing in on 86kg at around 12% bf. Desperately trying to hit and maintain at 90kg. Got up to 88kg from 78 at the end of my first cycle and was able to maintain at 85 post PCT.

@ Furk, saw you mentioned woolies egg whites. Not sure where you stay but check your local Spar for EeziEgg whites, in the icecream freezer. WAAAAAAAY cheaper than woolies, I used to buy theirs up until it hit R55 for 825ml a few weeks ago :S

I now pay R44 for a 1L at Spar!

Sorry for the hijack IK :kiss:

Schmidt wrote: @ Furk, saw you mentioned woolies egg whites. Not sure where you stay but check your local Spar for EeziEgg whites, in the icecream freezer. WAAAAAAAY cheaper than woolies, I used to buy theirs up until it hit R55 for 825ml a few weeks ago :S

I now pay R44 for a 1L at Spar!

Sorry for the hijack IK :kiss:

That's awesome Schmidt. Will check it out too. I obviously rushed off after I saw Furks post and bought the 825ml from woolies because I hate the hassle of trying to extract my yolks every day. 1L for R44! Yes please. Here's hoping they stock here in CT.

I had been using the woolies whites for around 2,5 years, they started off around R42 for 825ml. Their eggs must somehow be linked to the R/$ exchange :lol:

:lol:

Egg’s protein profile is pretty powerful, the only individual amino's that seem to be low are:

Tryptophan, Cystine, Histidine (in that order) That said, egg whites are actually a complete protein.

Milk doesn't exactly fit the opposing profile, but BOTH sources have really good bioavailability.

If you want to compliment milk, you can use products like pure gelatine powder, provolone, gouda, cheddar. Adding meat is probably the best though.

If you want to compliment the low fat yogurt, you can use products like wholewheat bread and almonds. These are based on amino profiles, not protein quality or availability or pureness. In practice, having a yogurt and bread smoothie PWO is probably retarded. Yogurt and egg whites will be a good bet I reckon.

@ Furk.
Thanks for the reply Bud.
How would whole soft boiled eggs and a glass of milk and 50g Gouda or cheddar be as a post work out meal?

NB! You have to cook your egg whites or risk salmonella!