help with lats???? need to spread the wings!!

well then u have lost alot of back strength,start doing doing 30 reps,even if its half reps where u are at full stretch at the bottom and you initiate the movement from the lats to pull u up to the bar... do that,even if u have to do 30 sets of 1 rep u will get there!also do not do too wide a grip...keep it to shoulder width.

Pull ups work because it forces correct form. Practice to get the same feel and therefore form doing pull downs. It gives you a huge range of opportunities other than just your own bodyweight and movement range.
I do them but mostly for warmup and a nice stretch.

im actually rowing and deadlifting more than ever. just them damn lats

well you certainly are one large fella... I would battle to pull up 130kg for sure

everyone seems to agree that pull ups are the best for lats and that tends to refelct what i've heard in the gym, but i was wondering when isolating the muscle is it necessary to go all the way up or does the muscle do the max of its work at the bottom of the movement and then the bicep take over?

Just curious about that

Biceps are most active midway thru the movement.

Think about the movement now, the last part of it the biceps will be fully contracted and you will be pulling your elbows down. This is the key as full lat contraction occurs when the elbows are by your side. So yes id say the full movement is necessary for full lat activation. Chin should reach over the top of the bar

Concentrate on pulling with your elbows.

BTW - Pull-Ups are advanced if you ask me. If you do Lat Pull-Downs you will be able to use a lighter weight and concentrate on the movement/feeling. Incorporate/contract the correct muscles. If you cant stop midway and then restart you are going too heavy - i'll give you two guesses who said that.

I do know that Arnie said pull ups are the only exercise you need to do for back to get roadmaps driven into them..

I for one can't do them because of my shoulder, close underhand grip I can, not wide overhard (palms facing down). This way I can concentrate on the muscle and squeeze and ease each movement.

I did back today and generally had small but strong lats so gave what DJ said a shot and started off with 60 chin ups. My Word! i have never actually felt my lats feel so 'alive', i did one arm rows and i usually use 45kg dumbbells but afterwards i could only row 30kgs and my lats are still solid!

Was amazing