Lagging Lat

Ja, hierdie is nie my jaar nie. Anyways, training wise. You guys got any ideas as to how I should train?

Hey milk, thats a bit of a crap one bud. I think in english its calcification in the joint??? Unfortunatley it not like hurting a muscle that heals with time and tlc. Is it only hurting when you do shoulder excersizes? If not, what other excersizes cause pain?
You mention that it is the Infraspinatus and Supraspinatus. These are muscles within the shoulder that have tendons attached. If it is calcification then it will more than likley be in the tendons of these muscles and not joint bone as such. This seems to be more common in older individuals but by no means the norm. If this is the case then full recovery possibly with an op is highly likley but you gonna need to have it seen to in depth.
When last did you have a descent break from training? How old are you?

I am 24. Haven't been in the gym for I think 4-6 weeks. My rhomboids are also giving me kak apparently. Biokineticist gave me stretch exercises and stabilizing exercises to do for three weeks I think. Look, I had no pain when training, only when doing lateral raises and front raises or some back exercises. Reason I wanted to get it sorted was that other muscles are over compensating for the weaker shoulder now certain muscles are bigger on the one side of my body. But now after some rehab, eina.

Yesterday I did biceps and triceps. I usually do db curls with 18 or 20kg (I know pussy weight, I am still small) but after warm up and stretching and weight acclimation and such I trained with 10kg. I could immediately feel pain in my neck/trap/shoulder/scapula (vlerkie ek dink) region oh and also inside my like uhm elbow joint or whatever on the tendon. So I guess any upper body exercise is gonna kill me.

I'll see if I can get a copy of the sonar report on my shoulder and post it on here. It's in Afrikaans unfortunately and I am not a very good translator.

cool, Afrikaans is geen probleem nie

Here is some info you may find help full...

Supraspinatus Tendinitis
The supraspinatus tendon is the most commonly affected tendon of the rotator cuff.

Mechanism of injury Symptoms Management
Repetitive overloading causes micro-tearing of the supraspinatus tendon. Faulty biomechanics or a muscle imbalance may predispose this tendon to injury. Impingement of the tendon reduces its blood supply and causes further degeneration. It is aggravated by the aging process. More common in overhead sports e.g. squash, tennis and swimming (freestyle and butterfly).
Pain over the outer aspect of the shoulder especially with movement to the side (normally in an arc between 70( and 120() and movement above shoulder height. Pain may radiate a short distance down the side of the arm. Pain while lying on the affected shoulder.
Rest from aggravating activity, application of ice and elecrotherapeutic modalities and anti-inflammatory medication. If the above treatment regime fails, cortico-steroid injections may be indicated. Acupuncture is often helpful. Prevent reoccurrence by correcting shoulder instability, muscle imbalances, soft tissue tightness, faulty biomechanics and training errors.

Supraspinatus Tendon Calcification
Mechanism of injury Symptoms Management
Usually follows a mild injury to the shoulder. Repetitive overloading or faulty biomechanics (due to muscle imbalance) may cause local degeneration. Common in tennis and squash where an overhead activity is required. Continuous aching both at rest and with movements. Aggravated by lying on the affected side and moving the arm sideways away from the body. Complete rest. Anti-inflammatory medication and local electrotherapy (ultrasound) to the area of calcification. Cortico-steroid injections with local anaesthetic can help in some cases.

I think doing any training that is causing pain should be put on hold for a while. Not somthing any of us likes but will be better in the long run. Just work on building some monster legs in the meantime... squat, squat, squat the rest can catch up later.

Alrighty guys, well if its your RC then yeah supraspin and infraspin are most likely involved. Calcification of the supraspin tendon shouldnt be likely at your age, maybe more of a tendonitis. I've had a LOT of patients with similar injurys and what i find highly effective is dry needling the supra and infra spin muscle bellies, and even needling the tendon itself. Also what is very important in RC rehab is strengthening the rotator cuff muscles... Rotary exercises like internal and external rotation of the arm while holding a light dumbell and with elbow bent 90 deg. These help to strengthen the muscles surrounding the glenohumeral joint.

Milky, have you tried a chiro? wish you were in my area as im sure I could help you with this injury.

Ja the Bio gave me stretches and exercises to strengthen the RC muscles. Doing those with an elastic band. I can probably scan the sonar images and upload it here for you to see spike.

Have been to the only chiro in town, but it's like he doesn't give a shit. He doesn't listen to what I'm saying. So I am not wasting my time going there again.

I'm in Margate Dec, too far? :laugh:

Thats not TOO far You driving thru durbs to get there? We can always make a plan, I had a patient travel from Richards Bay to see me the other day

Okay so here is the report I fetched from the doc:

Die skouer en AK gewrigte is normaal in voorkoms met geen tekens van OA bespeur nie. Baie geringe sagte weefsel verkalking is by aansluiting van die rotatorkraag teenwoordig met geringe benige veranderinge in die langsliggende humerus (pyltjie)

SONAR LINKER SKOUER: Daar is 'n geringe oormaat vog in die gewrig asook die subdeltoiede bursa aangetoon. Die biseps pees is normaal in voorkoms. Daar is 'n verhoogde eggo patroon in die mid en distale gedeeltes van supraspinatus teenwoordig en daar is 'n klein kol verkalking aangetoon. Geen abnormale verdikking van die pees is egter teenwoordig nie en die beeld is verdag van kroniese rotatorkraag tendinose sonder 'n skeur. Geen verdere sonar afwyking bespeur nie.

spike wrote: Thats not TOO far You driving thru durbs to get there? We can always make a plan, I had a patient travel from Richards Bay to see me the other day

Okay so when are you closed for Dec?

Im not in a practise yet, still stuck on the masters dissertation so treat from home... so can help you out anytime hey bro

Sweet! So what do you think about the report? Will my shoulder recover?

My afrikaans is nie so lekker nie, so im afraid i cant be too certain of my interpretation of it...

Ag tog fokken Jap dokter. Okay I'll see you Dec then.

Milktuds,

I feel your frustration. I tore my left pec in April 2009 (full tear) and a partial tear to my bicep brachi-radialis from the snap of the dumbbell coming doing. Had surgery within 24 hours, and 10 weeks of having my arm strapped to my body. When the strap came off and physio started, my left shoulder and back wasted away badly. My upper back got completely boney and my left lat was really stringy.

I was working with a physio for the first couple of months, then a biokineticist when I became strong enough to do rehab exercises. Long story short, what I've realised is that while lifting weights I completely neglected to train stabilizing muscles. With them not firing as you initiate a weight lifting movement, severe imbalances develop. The biggest problem I had after the pec tear was getting my back stabilizers to fire again, and I developed hectic spasms in my traps, rhomboids and infraspin every couple of weeks.

I thougt that muscle memory (from 15 years of training) would correct the atrophy, but that was not the case. Doing lots of unilateral movements and extra left hand sets on dumbbell rows etc only made my left arm grow thicker.

The one exercise I can honestly say brought some relief from all the soft tissue aches, was swimming. You have resistance while the muscles are in a stretched position and it's quite a workout with an unbelievable upper body pump.

Physiotherapy is necessary, but it's aimed at the symptoms, where the biokineticist analyse your movements and muscle function to find the origin of the problem. It would be a bonus to consult with a bio, or chiro for that matter who also has some background on weight lifting. My bio never picked up on the symmetry problem until I pointed it out after weeks of rehab. And symmetry issues is IMHO the most frustrating problem if you're passionate about bodybuilding (or when you are an extreme perfectionist).

Just don't get yourself down from all the mumbo jumbo in the sonar report. It might sound like you're falling apart, but you're still light years ahead in conditioning compared to a non-training individual. They don't even know that they have these weaknesses and imbalances.

Ek besef nou ek het hope k@k hier geskryf het maar nie seker of dit regtig help nie!

Okay so been to Physio, Bio and Chiro. They all said I should see an Orthopedic surgeon. Been dry needled, massaged and fuck knows what else to the past few weeks (more like months), but to no avail.

DJ wrote: i will never go to a physio again in my life,every time i walk out of a physio i feel as if i have been for a day at the spa.i go to my chiro,i literally walk out with tears rolling down my face but in 3 weeks my problems are gone...chiro's all the way!

I went to the Physio post-Chiro. Got diagnosed there eventually.
Have NEVER experienced such pain..... AND relief.

milktuds - see the www.shoulderinstitute.co.za/thoracic_outlet_syndrome.php

Maybe you see what is causing all this kak.

each to their own,my chiro that i go to has been spot on everytime,i havent had any issues with him not being able to sort out a problem for me etc,where as i have been to physios and its almost like i have left there after walking into a beauty salon for a massage,all they were interested in doing is put on an infra red lamp and then a slow soft massage,and its not only 1 thing that has been the case for,i had this with a quad tear and a AC joint issue,and went to 2 different physios.

Sure, i went to the Chiro and he did wonders for my Bi's etc. Thats why i went there first for this also. What i'm saying is that there are 2 options and in this case the Physio worked for me where the Chiro didnt.

I found that this guy that i went to who is a Chiro and gives you a hektic massage.Hahaha he says I give him a workout when he's massaging my back because he has to use all of his strength.Anyway he also does acupuncture and it works wonders .He puts the needles into your pressure points and your sore muscles and moves them around a little every 2 Mins ,the needles are in for about 10 Mins in total.The muscles become brused and 3 days after you acupuncture you feel great.A must try once every month.

Yeah thats called dry needling. works a charm for muscle trigger points.

Unfortunately. like any profession, there are guys out there who arent on par with the rest, and JR's problem should have been picked up immediately but wasnt. This happens unfortunately.

Generally speaking Chiro's are better equipped at diagnosing problems than physio's, and better equipped at treating them. Our education is far more extensive and includes medical diagnostics on par with most med students. As well as this we learn pretty much everything a Physio does and then some, hence the extra 2 years of study and the Masters degree. But experience is something that cannot be accounted for...

All these professions overlap somewhat, and thats where the confusion and competition comes in. At the end of the day each practitioner is different and will treat according to their ethos, beliefs and preferences. You need to find someone that works for you, but who is prepeared to step back and refer you on if they can no longer provide the best care.