Self defence and owning a handgun.

Just wanted to know the general feeling you guys have about having a handgun.

Don't know why but lately my ass is itching to accuire myself a nice piece...
my father is completely against handguns for self defence and believes the cause more harm than
good. (he is a lover of hunting rifles though)

I on the other hand feel that I have a moral obligation to rid the earth of scum when the oppertunity arises.

Is having and carrying a handgun going to cause you more trouble than good? that is bassically my question... (in the hands of a trained person of course)

it is not called self defence anymore apparently.. got the SAGA emails but didn't bother to read it properly, just another way to disarm the honest gun owners from what i did read.. As long as you are smart, no.

Nice thread.

Had an uncle that had his own hand gun used against, he was a Bodygaurd and knew very well how to use weapons and had all the training, he was taken by surprise as he was about to get into his car one night after a job, all they wanted was the gun cos they left the car and everything just took his wallet and the two extra clips, they basically executed him by shooting him point blank between the eyes...

and he was not a small guy either

I worked in the licensing dept for 8 years before finally and thankfully moving on. So I'm going to give u my personal opinion and not professional or legal opinion.

By having a handgun for self-defense means u are going to carry it with u. It becomes a schlep having this chunk of metal dragging ur pants down, tearing ur car seat and hooking onto everything u pass. Then there are places where u can't enter or access with a firearm, then u sit with the problem of where are u going to store it safely whilst in on that premises.

So then u have this firearm and something happens, how do u react? Will u react fast enough to make a difference? Will u make the right decision? Will u having a firearm save the situation? Or would it help get u, ur loved ones or bystanders killed? Could the criminals stills commit the crime and still disarm u, giving them yet another weapon?

At home, how long wil it take u to get to ur firearm and load it before the shot hits the fan?

All these things have happened in the past. And one NEVER knows how u are going to react in such a situation untill it happens. No matter how much we try to convince ourselves otherwise.

Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT anti firearms. I DO detest the firearms Act. I love hunting, have my own hunting rifles and yes I have my own pistol. But I almost never have my handgun with me for the reasons mentioned above. It lies in the safe. If I know I'm going to travel through a real dangerous area, then yeah I might take it along.

That's my 5c

By the way, good luck in getting that license mate. May as well get an illegal one. Less trouble, same amount of legal shit if something happens and u use it

MCJ wrote: By the way, good luck in getting that license mate. May as well get an illegal one. Less trouble, same amount of legal shit if something happens and u use it

valid.

Good post MCJ... very valid points you raise.

Buy a semi decent paintball gun, a spyder or so and just set the velocity up to just under max, then just load up a hopper with a mixture of pepper and ceramic balls, in that way if anyone comes onto your property its enough to get them away, but it can never be used to put you or family in mortal danger, and unless the fucker you are shooting at has the pain threshold of 100men he will think twice about trying to get closer...

a ceramic ball shot directly at a car windshield from about 20m away goes straight through the windshield... and well if he can still see straight after taking a couple of those and some pepper balls to the head then i dont know.

Kkkyle wrote: and well if he can still see straight after taking a couple of those and some pepper balls to the head then i dont know.

I know! 12 gauge to the bek

hmmm... thanx for the reply MCJ, this has cleared up my mind about buying a hangun... I am going to come out of the closet and announce that im not a south african citizen...

I will return to my home country soon and licensing is not such an issue there...and neither is crime... so why buy a handgun (like a glock) if I can get myself a nice ruger 10/22 model with which I can have some fun! with a 50round magazines that are available you can make a sif of an intuder should oppertunity arise... and its good for varmint hunting.

lol chapel that could work to

Kkkyle wrote: Buy a semi decent paintball gun, a spyder or so and just set the velocity up to just under max, then just load up a hopper with a mixture of pepper and ceramic balls, in that way if anyone comes onto your property its enough to get them away, but it can never be used to put you or family in mortal danger, and unless the fucker you are shooting at has the pain threshold of 100men he will think twice about trying to get closer...

a ceramic ball shot directly at a car windshield from about 20m away goes straight through the windshield... and well if he can still see straight after taking a couple of those and some pepper balls to the head then i dont know.

I'm sorry boet, but that's some of the dumbest advice you can give anyone. Initially it sounds like great idea to carry a toy gun, but what if you take a potshot at someone that's packing? Rather than defusing the situation like an adult, your marker will escalate the issue to bloodshed and tears.

I consider myself to be a responsible firearm owner, and have only pointed my 9mm during practice, and when I shot an intruder several years ago. But if someone nails me with ceramic balls, I will return fire. So think twice before you bring a toy to a gunfight :dry:

CHAPEL wrote: it is not called self defence anymore apparently.. got the SAGA emails but didn't bother to read it properly, just another way to disarm the honest gun owners from what i did read.. As long as you are smart, no.

Nice thread.

I finally got my new license a few weeks ago, and it clearly states 'Self-Defence' on it. The new legislation makes sense in theory, but the pressure on them to process hundreds of thousands of applications was simply too much. I'm sure a serial killer rapist would be able to get a license now.

Eidolon wrote:

Kkkyle wrote: Buy a semi decent paintball gun, a spyder or so and just set the velocity up to just under max, then just load up a hopper with a mixture of pepper and ceramic balls, in that way if anyone comes onto your property its enough to get them away, but it can never be used to put you or family in mortal danger, and unless the fucker you are shooting at has the pain threshold of 100men he will think twice about trying to get closer...

a ceramic ball shot directly at a car windshield from about 20m away goes straight through the windshield... and well if he can still see straight after taking a couple of those and some pepper balls to the head then i dont know.

I'm sorry boet, but that's some of the dumbest advice you can give anyone. Initially it sounds like great idea to carry a toy gun, but what if you take a potshot at someone that's packing? Rather than defusing the situation like an adult, your marker will escalate the issue to bloodshed and tears.

I consider myself to be a responsible firearm owner, and have only pointed my 9mm during practice, and when I shot an intruder several years ago. But if someone nails me with ceramic balls, I will return fire. So think twice before you bring a toy to a gunfight :dry:

i was meaning for a bit of self-defense at home, not walking around town with that lol, none the less it all calls upon situation, obviously if the guy is carrying a piece and you cannot fire from a safe position(behind a wall or so) then yea its not a practical option.

If you shooting at someone from a dark little window from your house there is little chance they will see where it is coming from (no muzzle flash or overly loud bang) and then have the senses to stand there and figure out where it came from and return fire when they getting whacked by a stream of very painful balls,

Standing in the wide open will obviously put you in harms way.

I have been shot with one of those pepper balls and it really does mess with your senses,you can barely see, and well like i said ceramics can break through a car windshield so a couple of those against the head and i want to see someone stand there and shoot back. My recreational paintball gun shoots at a max velocity of around 500fps and can pump out 20bps and i have played games against where you cant "die" and the point is just to inflict alot of pain, and i have had okes who would walk around and after a stream about 15 or so normal paintballs has hit them them they are very quickly looking for somewhere to hide, and that,s at range velocity of 300fps and they are wearing masks and some protective clothing. So i do believe that shooting at someone with ammo that is designed to inflict alot of pain and discomfort against an unprotected head and face will stop pretty much most humans and make them think twice.

In the end you have to asses the situation and do what you believe to be the best option at that time, i don't condone having a firearm for self-defense, but non lethal ways have proved themselves to.

Eidolon wrote: So think twice before you bring a toy to a gunfight :dry:

Rather bring injections, people are terrified of em :silly:

here is also a nice option for non lethal protection, and the good part? it is only dangerous in your hands!

www.vipersa.co.za/Viper%20X1.pdf

problem with those is you have to be close... but yea SWAT uses a lot of non lethal weapons like that stun gun thing and the paintball markers against much harder criminals than your average Joe Breaking and entering criminal with a gun that he brought from a friend, and has probably only shot the thing twice at a tree in a veld somewhere.

Having good safety habits also gets you far, like always being vigilant, I know it sounds dum, but some people just don't notice anything and can be robbed in broad daylight.

afterwards you hear them say "its like they came out of nowhere" (touchwood) hahaha

Beretta 9mm.

I dont carry it with me everywhere (anymore). Have a safe at the foot of my side of the bed. In Today's society I'd rather have one and not need it than need one and not have it.

Bottom line - i will GLADLY go away for murder if it means my wife and daughter live to see another day. I will empty the mag... reload and empty the second on ANYONE who threatens the lives of my loved ones. Period.

I still think MCJ answered this question the best.

In the real world there is no time to go for your 9mm, shotgun, stun gun or paintball gun... in the end it will just end up on the street after you have been shot dead.

Avoid confrontation, because your little 9mm is not making you immortal and most armed criminals can empty a magazine just as quickly as you and sending bullets flying sounds like a gamble I'm not willing to take. Only use your firearm when you have to, but like I said in these cases you will not even have time to react anyway...

Seems that some here watch too many movies and please don't go for the shotgun when there's an AK47 in your closet, shotguns only work in hollywood...

Eidolon wrote:

CHAPEL wrote: it is not called self defence anymore apparently.. got the SAGA emails but didn't bother to read it properly, just another way to disarm the honest gun owners from what i did read.. As long as you are smart, no.

Nice thread.

I finally got my new license a few weeks ago, and it clearly states 'Self-Defence' on it. The new legislation makes sense in theory, but the pressure on them to process hundreds of thousands of applications was simply too much. I'm sure a serial killer rapist would be able to get a license now.

Eidolon this was literally a week ago or so.. It said self protection or something.. I will hunt it down and link it or quote it or something.

admin wrote: I still think MCJ answered this question the best.

In the real world there is no time to go for your 9mm, shotgun, stun gun or paintball gun... in the end it will just end up on the street after you have been shot dead.

Avoid confrontation, because your little 9mm is not making you immortal and most armed criminals can empty a magazine just as quickly as you and sending bullets flying sounds like a gamble I'm not willing to take. Only use your firearm when you have to, but like I said in these cases you will not even have time to react anyway...

Seems that some here watch too many movies and please don't go for the shotgun when there's an AK47 in your closet, shotguns only work in hollywood...

HAHAHA admin, did you get to test this? hahahaha

what is frightening though is the amouunt of police firearms that go missing every year...
they are the biggest sponsor of criminal activity...

Thunderbeast wrote: HAHAHA admin, did you get to test this? hahahaha

what is frightening though is the amouunt of police firearms that go missing every year...
they are the biggest sponsor of criminal activity...

Shotguns are good for shooting guineafowls and chickens, but when it comes to self defense you need something with a little more stopping power at medium range... you are not always close enough for a shotgun to do the job properly.

Whoever is in charge will have to do something about the missing police firearms... that is a very big problem and don't forget the theft of firearms that get's handed in.

Thunderbeast wrote:

admin wrote: I still think MCJ answered this question the best.

In the real world there is no time to go for your 9mm, shotgun, stun gun or paintball gun... in the end it will just end up on the street after you have been shot dead.

Avoid confrontation, because your little 9mm is not making you immortal and most armed criminals can empty a magazine just as quickly as you and sending bullets flying sounds like a gamble I'm not willing to take. Only use your firearm when you have to, but like I said in these cases you will not even have time to react anyway...

Seems that some here watch too many movies and please don't go for the shotgun when there's an AK47 in your closet, shotguns only work in hollywood...

HAHAHA admin, did you get to test this? hahahaha

what is frightening though is the amouunt of police firearms that go missing every year...
they are the biggest sponsor of criminal activity...

Very true Thunderbeast. The majority of firearms, barring AK-47's, used in robberies, cash in transit heists and shootouts etc are your Walther P38 (previous SAPS standard 108 issue pistol), Berretta Z88 (current SAPS standard 108 issue pistol), R-5 (SAPS) and R-4 (SANDF). Obviously the same goes for the ammunition.

which brings us back to the original topic... why carry a 9mm if all the crooks are packing AK's???

it is suicide...

do you guys think the problem would get worse if assault rifles are legalised?

admin wrote:

Thunderbeast wrote: HAHAHA admin, did you get to test this? hahahaha

what is frightening though is the amouunt of police firearms that go missing every year...
they are the biggest sponsor of criminal activity...

Shotguns are good for shooting guineafowls and chickens, but when it comes to self defense you need something with a little more stopping power at medium range... you are not always close enough for a shotgun to do the job properly.

Whoever is in charge will have to do something about the missing police firearms... that is a very big problem and don't forget the theft of firearms that get's handed in.

I have to disagree with u bit there admin. Altough to an extent what u say about the effectiveness of a shotgun at range is true it heavily depends on the type of ammunition used. Having a shotgun with a long mussle apposed to short nosed pump actions ensures for more accuracy over longer distances. By using ammunition from SSG, AAA, LG and slugs this accuracy and effectiveness at distance is even increased. Just compare the difference in length between a pistol and shotgun barrel. Using small ammo like no 5 for example will cause the pellets to spread quicker over shorter distances and this is even increased with a shorter barrell like most pump actions.

On the other hand, the majority of ppl who own handguns are not that accurate with them at short distances let alone slight longer ones. Those long distance shootouts in movies u see with handguns are fun to watch but not true reflection. Yes there are guys who do this for sport etc and are great shots at most distances, but we are talking about average joe here.

Shotgun is great for close self defense and IMO with the right ammo is far better than a pistol in longer distances. The thing that makes handguns so appealing is its compact, light and consealable.