Testosterone blood tests?

The lady whoremones you want then would be the oestradoil I.e. your estrogen levels.

The others are progesterone - not unless you're crossing over Or been dancing with Mr Nandrolone
prolactin -as in lactation, oozy nipples from progestins like 19 nor, sDrol, etc.

But seriously, stop looking for a short cut. You're looking to FU a good thing. No AIs!!!!
Train your arse off.
You have more test on average that guys that cycle.
They gain and loose, youre on a gain and gain winner.
get your diet right and train! !!!!

Test your levels every year as part of a normal health checkup.
when you get a bit older, they will drop (see my results)
And then you can think about pl cycling.

Oupiel wrote: The lady whoremones you want then would be the oestradoil I.e. your estrogen levels.

The others are progesterone - not unless you're crossing over Or been dancing with Mr Nandrolone
prolactin -as in lactation, oozy nipples from progestins like 19 nor, sDrol, etc.

But seriously, stop looking for a short cut. You're looking to FU a good thing. No AIs!!!!
Train your arse off.
You have more test on average that guys that cycle.
They gain and loose, youre on a gain and gain winner.
get your diet right and train! !!!!

Test your levels every year as part of a normal health checkup.
when you get a bit older, they will drop (see my results)
And then you can think about pl cycling.

Ok, I would like to have it checked. Deciding whether to do it now or perhaps wait a few months and have the Oestradiol checked and my testosterone checked again.


I plan on improving on my diet as well as training. As for taking an AI I was more curious about it, perhaps consider trying it for a limited time to see whether it makes any difference however I do not know nearly enough to "just do it".

Truth be told, I am actually pretty happy about my test levels now and not having to stick a needle in myself! It was rather mind boggling considering I am not a big guy at all, I have always been that skinny guy. I just imagined someone with higher testosterone levels to be someone who is naturally muscular. -shrugs-


I really appreciate all the info and advice you have given me Oupiel!

Your body type will determine your build. You sound more like an ectomorph.
Light boned, narrow wrists & waist, not heavily muscled.

Sounds like a setback, but in my mind, ectomorphs build awesome physiques.
Francis Benfato, Bob Paris types, even Lee Labrada - Greek gods.

Not the monsters like Lee Haney, Dorian Yates, etc.

Just work on creating balance & symmetry, don't skip leg days.
Sorry, calves you just gonna have to HTFU and make some.

Good luck.

Oupiel wrote: Your body type will determine your build. You sound more like an ectomorph.
Light boned, narrow wrists & waist, not heavily muscled.

Sounds like a setback, but in my mind, ectomorphs build awesome physiques.
Francis Benfato, Bob Paris types, even Lee Labrada - Greek gods.

Not the monsters like Lee Haney, Dorian Yates, etc.

Just work on creating balance & symmetry, don't skip leg days.
Sorry, calves you just gonna have to HTFU and make some.

Good luck.

Yeah, if anything I'd say I am an ectomorph. I heard that depending on your body type you might want to adjust the type of training / how you train as certain body types respond better to certain types of training?

I never skip leg day, since I have been back at gym I have been trying to do full body workouts (more or less). So have done legs every day I have been in the gym. Always trying to at least squat or do some deadlifts.

I lost some weight and strength while I was sick and not training for 3 weeks. Weight yesterday after my gym workout was 54.95KG, deadlifts I went upto 80KG (30KG a side) and squats 70KG (25KG a side). So getting there again.

As for what my goals are, how I'd like to look. I am not looking at getting insanely massive. If I can get a nice physique, then I would be happy. I do not need to look impressive with a top on - if I look impressive without a top on then I am more than happy.
If I could build aesthetics similar to Aziz Shavershian (Zyzz) then I would be happy.

I got a scale too, easier to weight myself. Just need to try and wake up and weight myself one morning and take some pictures to post here. The body fat calipers say I am 11 or 12% body fat, the diagnostic scale I got from Makro says 15.7% body fat... Regardless I have fat I wanna get rid of, unsure whether to cut or bulk first but thats a topic for another thread.

Psy, no need for AI now bud. I've also thought about it for myself in the past.

Training and rest is vital. Post your routine and I'll comment. Never let your routine progress faster than your strength - it seems your on the perfect track.

As for diet, keep eating what you have been, but write it down in the evenings. That'll give you/us an idea what's been working well for test, but bad for gains.

Zyzz had an ideal aesthetic physique. Keep him in mind as an inspiration, not a goal body right now.

Furk wrote: Psy, no need for AI now bud. I've also thought about it for myself in the past.

Training and rest is vital. Post your routine and I'll comment. Never let your routine progress faster than your strength - it seems your on the perfect track.

As for diet, keep eating what you have been, but write it down in the evenings. That'll give you/us an idea what's been working well for test, but bad for gains.

Zyzz had an ideal aesthetic physique. Keep him in mind as an inspiration, not a goal body right now.

My routine at the moment is not 100% structured, I am just trying to get back upto speed and shall hopefully start gyming with a friend of mine starting this week so the training routine will change again.

What I have been doing is something like this, I also always do a warm up set with each exercise:

Squats - 1 warm up set, then 3 sets (8 - 10 reps)
Deadlifts - 3 sets (8 - 12 reps)
Lat pulldowns - 3 sets (10 - 12 reps)
Straightbar bicep curls - 3 sets (10 - 12 reps)
Skullcrushers - 3 sets (10 - 12 reps)


I do something like the above most of the time, however throw in some other things which I do not always do such as calves, abs, shoulders, hamstrings, forearms (hammer curls for forearms).
I have only trained 4 times since being back in JHB, getting my blood done and being better and able to train again. So been trying to focus on a more full body type of workout during those 4 sessions, of 3 of them I did squats and 3 of them I did deadlifts.

With regards to eating, I will see whether I can get MFP (My Fitness Pal) going again and then possibly post a link to that. Been busy at work recently so hardly have time for things and might not always be able to capture what I have eaten. Also diet is something I want to change quite a bit. I have taken a brief look at what some other peoples diets look like. Mine isn't nearly as structured and clean. Hopefully month end I can get what I need and try eating even better.

Just write your daily meals in a paper journal, just to get started and for record keeping sake . Okay we need to do some major work on your routine mate. Try the following, do 1 every 4 days:

Routine A
Deads 5 x 5
Lat pull down 5 x 5
Bench / db press 5 x 5
Leg press 5 x 5
Over head press 5 x 5


Routine B
Squats 5x5
1 arm DB row 5x5
Bench press 5x5
Leg curls 5x5
Dips 5x5
Low row 5x5


Those are low rep, hearty, working sets. Warm up not included.

Furk wrote: Just write your daily meals in a paper journal, just to get started and for record keeping sake . Okay we need to do some major work on your routine mate. Try the following, do 1 every 4 days:

Routine A
Deads 5 x 5
Lat pull down 5 x 5
Bench / db press 5 x 5
Leg press 5 x 5
Over head press 5 x 5


Routine B
Squats 5x5
1 arm DB row 5x5
Bench press 5x5
Leg curls 5x5
Dips 5x5
Low row 5x5


Those are low rep, hearty, working sets. Warm up not included.

Is that the 5x5 stronglifts? What do you mean by do 1 every 4 days?

Today so far I have made a list of what I have eaten, but it wasn't good. Hardly ate due to work, need to try and make some time to eat and gotta pack food for work.
Will put that all in the new thread once I get around to taking some pictures. Most likely only this weekend.

Seems I am a bit too late to edit my last post, but what are some good ab isolation exercises?

Everyone seems to have their own opinion regarding that.
Bicycle crunches, to leg ups, to planking.

PsyCLown wrote: Is that the 5x5 stronglifts? What do you mean by do 1 every 4 days?

Ai, need it spelled out

Not strong lifts. Just an example full body program.

Monday Routine A
Tuesday off
Wednesday off
Thursday off
Friday routine B
Saturday off
Sunday off
Monday off
Tuesday routine A
Wednesday off
Thursday off
Friday off
Saturday routine B
Sunday off
etc etc etc....

When progress stops, move to a 2 day split. If you feel recovered after 3 days(even though you won't be), train a day earlier and lift heavier. Your previous session wasn't hard enough.

Regarding abs, hit them after normal workout in these workouts. Do weighted cable crunches, flutter kicks, V-ups, captains chair ( don't let your back rest on the padding)

Sorry, just to add in... Abs are vital dude! A strong core is the basis of your lifts! So never skip them!

Mason Might wrote: Sorry, just to add in... Abs are vital dude! A strong core is the basis of your lifts! So never skip them!

Since he is a beginner, I would say don't worry about ab isolation right now. Maybe do 1 core exercise after a full body routine, but those routines are designed to incorporate core. So you get a lot of core activation in doing them properly and you don't want to limit those lifts or recovery.

Furk wrote:

Mason Might wrote: Sorry, just to add in... Abs are vital dude! A strong core is the basis of your lifts! So never skip them!

Since he is a beginner, I would say don't worry about ab isolation right now. Maybe do 1 core exercise after a full body routine, but those routines are designed to incorporate core. So you get a lot of core activation in doing them properly and you don't want to limit those lifts or recovery.

I wouldn't do isolation work, but some suitcase carries and waitor walks will improve core strength, gri, hip drive... Love this kind of work to build a strong foundation.

Hi all,

So a bit of a bump. Going to the Dr again this Friday possibly for some bloods to be done again as it has now been around 3 months of me being off whey and supplements etc.

So I will just get my test levels done again and then while I have the needle in my arm I might as well get my estrogen levels tested as I would like to have it done for peace of mind if not anything else.
So that is the oestradoil test? Now I just want to confirm that on the bloodwork sheet it is referred to as E2?

Thanks!

Psy what's up mate. Whey is food, won't affect bloodwork. I think that E2 code is dependent on the pathology lab. Otherwise all's OK.

Furk wrote: Psy what's up mate. Whey is food, won't affect bloodwork. I think that E2 code is dependent on the pathology lab. Otherwise all's OK.

Yeah, the Dr was just a bit suspect and thought something I was on might be affecting it since it was soo high.
So doing this just to be sure - otherwise all is good. Ordered some Peanutbutter, Whey concentrate and some CEE from BSSA. Hopefully that will arrive soon and I will start with that probably on Friday if I get the bloods done on Friday.

Thanks!

Hey all!

So an update. I was off supplements for 3 months after doing my last blood tests where my testosterone where higher than the range.

I got bloods done on Friday and these are the results:

Very different and now it is on the low side... Very low
I got E2 done as well, not sure where it should be sitting?


Last time I was using SSN whey protein, Evox Creatine Monohydrate & some Omega 3.
Those are the only 3 supplements which I was taking when I got my bloods done previously and they are the three which I stopped taking after I got my results.
My guess is that there is something in the SSN whey? I do not think creatine would lead to higher test levels and I do not think taking Omega 3 supplements would cause that either? Also just plain whey probably wouldn't either?

I discussed my previous results with the Dr, the testosterone was very high although the LH and FSH were on the lower end - so looks as if there was some negative feedback loop.
So I think something similar to what happens when you inject test, it signals your testis to stop producing test etc. etc.


One thing I have noticed is that my sex drive is not what it use to be, although I just put that down to me possibly getting older. -shrugs-
Although the change has happened within the past 6 months or so.

PsyCLown wrote:

Furk wrote: Psy what's up mate. Whey is food, won't affect bloodwork. I think that E2 code is dependent on the pathology lab. Otherwise all's OK.

Yeah, the Dr was just a bit suspect and thought something I was on might be affecting it since it was soo high.
So doing this just to be sure - otherwise all is good. Ordered some Peanutbutter, Whey concentrate and some CEE from BSSA. Hopefully that will arrive soon and I will start with that probably on Friday if I get the bloods done on Friday.

Thanks!

Lemme know how tasty the CEE is.

3 Months after PCT and it can be expected that you haven't fully recovered yet. Looking at these low levels of test (and low levels of oestradiol) it indicates that your PCT has likely failed. Pity that you didn't test FSH, LH and estrogen levels that would have given a better indication of where the problem lies. Test those three and post the results.

Pyroclasm wrote: 3 Months after PCT and it can be expected that you haven't fully recovered yet. Looking at these low levels of test (and low levels of oestradiol) it indicates that your PCT has likely failed. Pity that you didn't test FSH, LH and estrogen levels that would have given a better indication of where the problem lies. Test those three and post the results.

I have never done a cycle, never taken or injected any steroids. Thats the thing. :huh: If I had done a cycle then at least it is more explainable and the path to trying to get it resolved might be a bit more clear cut.
Also I thought the E2 (oestradiol) was in essence testing estrogen?

I have sort of gotten use to the taste of the CEE, it is still a really unpleasant taste but I have learnt to live with it now
After tasting it the VERY first time (I put the teaspoon in my mouth after stirring it into some Energade), I was thinking that I might need to pass it onto someone else and get some Creatine Monohydrate.

Perhaps some Clomid EOD for a period and then taper off towards the end? Thinking of giving that a try, done a bit of Googling and reading various articles about people being put onto Clomid (and sometimes Hcg) instead of TRT. For the most part it does not seem as if Clomid has many side effects and seems rather "safe".

It seems that endocrinologists will use Clomid and hcg to try determine whether your adrenal gland is working and whether your testes are able to produce more testosterone.
Also seems as if HCG can lead to supression where Clomid not really, however it does increase test in some and then once they stop their test levels do drop back to their previous below average levels.

PsyCLown wrote: Hi all,

So a bit of a bump. Going to the Dr again this Friday possibly for some bloods to be done again as it has now been around 3 months of me being off whey and supplements etc.

So I will just get my test levels done again and then while I have the needle in my arm I might as well get my estrogen levels tested as I would like to have it done for peace of mind if not anything else.
So that is the oestradoil test? Now I just want to confirm that on the bloodwork sheet it is referred to as E2?

Thanks!

Sorry man I was speed reading and only read the part in bold. HCG is slightly suppressive yes but a lot more so in the rediculous dosages that some of these steroid 'gurus' or endocrinologists (that don't keep up to date with medical science) suggest. The way I see it your plan of action (POA) stays unchanged. You should get bloods done to establish the baseline and to establish where the problem is and take the next POA from there.

Using CEE is like injecting winstrol: fudging painful and not necessary.

Pyroclasm wrote: Using CEE is like injecting winstrol: fudging painful and not necessary.

Which begs the question : why CEE? Digestion problems with mono? As far as I remember, the latest concensus was that the type of creatine matters very little, especially when you factor price in.

Furk wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote: Using CEE is like injecting winstrol: fudging painful and not necessary.

Which begs the question : why CEE? Digestion problems with mono? As far as I remember, the latest concensus was that the type of creatine matters very little, especially when you factor price in.

I felt as if the monohydrate was causing some bloat for me, also I have never tried any creatine other than monohydrate and the fact that you can take CEE without the need of an insulin spike and there is no loading phase etc. makes it easier and less to worry about whether it is working properly as it should. It is working for me, I have taken it every single day since I have gotten it.

I manage to get it down without much issue, I am use to bad tasting medicines as I have to chew tablets and lick the powder for capsules as I struggle to swallow them (I think psychological, from when I was small).


After doing my shot of CEE, if you leave the glass out when the water / juice evaporates you end up with some CEE all crystalized. Looks pretty awesome!

Looks even better on the bottom where a few drops would have gathered.

You don't need to take Creatine Monohydrate with an insulin spike. This comes from an outdated study and the supplement industry went fucking nuts over it. There are newer and better studies done that proved that an insulin spike only increases absorption by 20%. If Creatine was expensive this would be important but it's not it's dirt cheap so simply take 20% more.

Pyroclasm wrote: You don't need to take Creatine Monohydrate with an insulin spike. This comes from an outdated study and the supplement industry went fucking nuts over it. There are newer and better studies done that proved that an insulin spike only increases absorption by 20%. If Creatine was expensive this would be important but it's not it's dirt cheap so simply take 20% more.

Oh, that is news to me!
So basically just take 6g as opposed to 5g then. Well I might as well finish the CEE now - don't wanna waste it.

Will try Monohydrate again and see how it is.