Time to cycle!

500g of pure muscle is sure as hell not a little my friend, that's actually a shit load.

PsyCLown wrote:

Oupa wrote: To gain 500g permanent pure muscle per cycle is absolutely amazing results, hardly possible, but for some with good genetics, possible to keep and maintain.

Is this regardless of of training experience and how much progress you have made?

I have seen a fair few state that their strength has gone up quite a bit while on cycle. When done with the cycle their strength drops but they are still quite a bit stronger than they were prior to their cycle?
Would that 500g of muscle make such a difference in strength?


I can understand picking up that little bit of muscle if you have been training for years and done multiple cycles. Although someone who is new to cycling, surely they'd gain more actual muscle?

Psyclown, I think a factor that has to be taken into account is "greatest natural muscle potential". AAS is often used by individuals that are at, or very close to their natural limit, in order to exceed those boundaries. If a individual is well below their natural limit (you and me for example) there is a lot of space for natural growth, therefore AAS can help us reach that level. The difficulty with retaining gains comes above the natural threshold. Mind you, if you want to maintain natural peak levels you will have to train and eat to match that, and that is also a learning curve.

Oupa wrote: 500g of pure muscle is sure as hell not a little my friend, that's actually a shit load.

I agree. Plus if you are lean, the impact of muscle gains is significantly more obvious. Being lean shows what you truly are IMO. Want to look more muscular instantly? Drop body fat.

Furk wrote:

Oupa wrote: 500g of pure muscle is sure as hell not a little my friend, that's actually a shit load.

I agree. Plus if you are lean, the impact of muscle gains is significantly more obvious. Being lean shows what you truly are IMO. Want to look more muscular instantly? Drop body fat.

This I have noticed. I personally much prefer the leaner look as opposed to the fatty / less defined look. Sure you might look bigger in a shirt or whatever but meh. I'd rather look leaner than bigger but fatter.


@Oupa, good to know. A big misconception then I reckon with regards to how much muscle gets gained during a cycle.

Furk wrote: Psyclown, I think a factor that has to be taken into account is "greatest natural muscle potential". AAS is often used by individuals that are at, or very close to their natural limit, in order to exceed those boundaries. If a individual is well below their natural limit (you and me for example) there is a lot of space for natural growth, therefore AAS can help us reach that level. The difficulty with retaining gains comes above the natural threshold. Mind you, if you want to maintain natural peak levels you will have to train and eat to match that, and that is also a learning curve.

So therefore the main reason it is not recommended for novices to use AAS is because generally they have not learnt to train and eat correctly - or at such a level where they would be able to maintain the gains achieved from a cycle.
They are sort of missing out on certain fundamental learning curves then, I guess it is possible for their mindset to change as well - thinking that they are only able to achieve such a state / form when using drugs etc?

In my honest opinion and understanding:
Not at upper natural limit + AAS = plateau reacher
Upper natty limit + AAS = plateau buster

Hi-jack over. Sorry for interruptions mate.

Furk wrote: In my honest opinion and understanding:
Not at upper natural limit + AAS = plateau reacher
Upper natty limit + AAS = plateau buster

Hi-jack over. Sorry for interruptions mate.

Interesting. So if one were to start using AAS before reaching their natural limits and do say 2 cycles.
Then continue to train naturally until they hit a plateau - would doing another cycle help them get over that plateau or not?

Put it this way. For the technically minded idiot like me.

You have a car which you look after and (step 1) every now and then put a mod on... new exhaust, new filter different spark plugs, bigger wheels, better brakes etc. all improving performance slightly. Obviously you use the right fuel etc. This is like natural training , slow and steady getting you ready.

(Step 2) Then you decide bam put a V8 6.3Litre motor into it with all the works. What you have now is a monster mobile chick pulling panty dropping speed machine.
This is like using juice to get you over the plateaux.

What you are wanting to do is skip step 1 and go straight to step 2. This is not a problem but guess what you have no experience driving this V8 monster so bam you crash into a wall. No more panty dropping.

I know its a stupid example but it makes sense. I have been training for 2 years (went from about 65kg to 84 before I decided to pin) Although I admittedly got it wrong with the roids I am using but hey the building blocks are there.

I have plenty mates who looked like you (no offence) skinny and small and always complained saying they wanted to pick up but just couldn't. The reason they were not eating correctly. Metered meals 3 hours apart and wow gaining 4kgs a month became easy for them.

You need to bulk naturally before doing it with additives. There are some really good diets out there to help you out. The below is not a diet but some things to consider each of them as true as you will hear from anybody.
Calorie surplus, PROTEINS, Clean carbs etc.
You will gain fat but as long as you keep this in a range you wont get fat(gain 3 kg's muscle 2 kg fat)


Another huge part to it is your workout. You and your mate need to push each other to the next level. You have a spot make him work for his place there. Go to the max and then add some more for fun. Keep your reps low but your weight high.

Pretty much everything everybody else has said in one post.

PsyCLown wrote: So if one were to start using AAS before reaching their natural limits and do say 2 cycles.
Then continue to train naturally until they hit a plateau - would doing another cycle help them get over that plateau or not?

If I understand your question correctly, yeah. But remember, between those 2 cycles you talked about above, you need to ensure natural testosterone is as high as possible, you need to continuously provide stimulus for muscles, and most difficult IMHO, your muscles & CNS need to recover real fast, after every session. Also, you are going to have to chow down on dat dere carbs and protein, probably put on fat.

You've probably heard the old adage "train hard, sleep deep and eat plenty" all the damn time , but it's true.

Thanks guys!

Really appreciate the guidance. So I am postponing the cycle for now. Today was my last day of cutting, although not really cutting as I am going to be hitting my maintenance.

Carbs: 211
Fats:57
Protein: 125
Sugar: 39 (I cheated and had a cappuccino muffin)

That is my macro breakdown for the day. I also started that PHAT workout. Completed day 1 today and it feels good to be back in the gym as I took last week off and just did a bit of cardio last week.

How does a 300 calorie surplus for a lean, natural bulk sound? I was thinking 500 although I have small frame and 300 calories is 15% more than my maintenance. What do you think?