Test E and Equipoise for Lean Bulking?

Hi guys

A friend of mine is currently in week 7 of his Test E and Equipoise cycle and has managed to pick up 10kgs already of relatively lean mass. He has done many cycles before this, including ones with NPP and ones with Tren.

From reading up on this site, I had the general impression that EQ is mainly used in cutting cycles, but I wanted to know if it is alright to use it in conjunction with Test E (which I have already tried) for a second cycle?

I understand that EQ only kicks in after quite a long time period. I have also been reading up about EQ and have found out that it is rates as anabolic as Test, but only half as androgenic.

If it's alright to add to a 2nd cycle, and if I can only run 10 weeks of Test E, would it be possible to run EQ for 5 weeks prior to starting Test? So the cycle would look like this:

Week 1-5: ?mg EQ
Week 6-15: ?mg EQ & ?mg Test E

45 day bridge before PCT

PCT: Clomid, Nolva/Kessar, Ovidrel (Aromasin needed?)

I've also read about Equipoise's appetite stimulating properties which will help a lot, along with it's great strength gains and slow build up of quality lean mass.

I'm hoping to use Koe's method of using a lower dose of Test to let the anabolic (EQ) do the work.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated guys. Thanks in advance.

Eq and test c or e is a dream combination.

Personally it my favorite or all cycles if done thus far.

My last cycle was 500mg testc and 700mg equipoise, i loved it. I did frontload with test prop, really gets things going gets your strength right up there. Yes equi takes a hell of a long time to start making a difference though you should start feeling the massive appetite after the first week.

Regarding what you said, you could start with equi for 5 weeks and then shift to test e (are you planning on 600 or 300mg per week .) But i would rather just start test e and equi together and frontload. If you're intimidated by running so much gear at once you can just do test e and equi for 15 weeks alone (minimum 15 weeks) and you will still get great results.

My aversion to starting equi before you have supplemented test is due to equi being having a suppressive effect on your hpta although it being very small, it will affect it and drop your production (even if equi hasn't kicked in yet) so you should at least run small dose test as u mentioned koe did to insure slightly ellevated test levels, being a low dose(this will allow your to run the gear for a very long time due to it being not as harsh due to lower test doses). I would also do weekly hcg shots after the 6th or so week to keep your nuts hanging low.

Just know, equi works wonders WHEN run for as long as possible, 20weeks would be long but do able. It will cost an arm snd a leg but your lean gains you will get from such a cycle will stick around. You must just note, when ending cycle you will have to continue running test for a week or so, due to the equi long esters needing to clear up. then move to winny + proviron for a 30day bridge as the test drops. So your timing will have to be worked out accordingly and hcg supplementation stopped well ahead of pct to insure when pct starts levels are restored as fast as possible.


Regarding the aromasin, it is recommended by doctari in he's pct, but if my thinking is correct when running the clomid in pct it kickstarts your t production but also the aromatization of that testosterone to estrogen, if you are gyno prone then armidex would assist in that it is a serm and control the aromatization, i think running the cycle for so long although low dose test will possibly increase estrogen affinity resulting in a sort of prejudice or high affinity to armatize thus armidex is used. Thus making the clomid more effective in restarting natural test production and keeping aromatization acceptable.

The nolva still dose its thing in keeping levels post clomid/armidex stable to insure you don't have a rebound effect.

Ill add more in depth input later tonight gotta write calculas

Regards,
Aspoester.

Thanks very much for your input, +1 for you bud!

I'm a little wary of Equipoise as I've read about the sides effects such as anxiety and night sweats when using high doses, and thought about maybe doing 500mg Test Cyp with 1.4ml Equipoise each week which works out to be 490mg Equipoise EW.

Is this a good dose to start seeing good results, or would you opt for more/less Test and more/less Equipoise.

Will be playing Rugby only 3 times a week from the end of July to the end of September, and will not be able to continue any injectables past the first two weeks of November.

I also have an 8 week break from all sport starting on Monday, which I want to use to pick up some size as well, and am going to be dieting very hard throughout those 8 weeks.

DJ suggested I stick to 600mg Test E for 10 weeks to keep things simple, but I also wanted to get a better understanding of EQ to broaden my knowledge.

Thanks once again.

Please just edit the name out hahaha to used to signing off.

Thanks bud for the +1

Done, and no problem thanks for the advice!!

im also highly interested in equi at the moment for my next cycle, im currently on test e and npp... and im loving it! .. for a next cycle tho, what would your guys thoughts be for adding in equi to the mix? for example npp, equi and test, at say npp 300-450mg (2-3ml), equi 700mg (2ml) and test e either 600-900mg (2-3ml) ?? ... run the npp up2 week 13, and the equi up2 week 15 with the test... i think that could be a monster of a lean mass cycle?? and maybe a oral t front load .... your thoughts? (then obviously winny+proviron bridge with docs pct) .. will be dam pricey, but i think an awsome cycle??

That's a lot of compounds PP, I reckon you could turn into a monster with a great diet!

Are you running 600mg Test E and 450mg NPP each week and pinning Mondays and Thursdays?

What gains have you made, and what week are you currently in bud?

I started on 600 test e and 300mg npp, for 3 weeks, then we upped it to 900mg test e and 450npp, and I'm pinning monday, wednesday and fridays, as per instruction from dj, my eating and training went south for like 3 weeks due to some personal problems and exams but its back on track, I'm currently in week 8 , and I'm up around 5-6 kgs but also the leanest iv ever been and very vascular when I train, so I'm very happy at the moment, I dropped some weight (water I presume) a few weeks ago as after the dbol frontload I got a bit of a sensitive nipple, so I started with the adex till the sensitivity cleared, but so far I'm happy, and feel the gear is kicking in full force, weekely my weights are shooting through the roof, I'm going to run the cycle for 13 weeks, so still plently time to make up for the bad eating and training, around 5 weeks still then I have my 4 week bridge of winny and proviron before pct, hoping to end up 95kgs+ at around 8-10% bf post pct

Nice bro, keep it up! Planning on creating a cycle log? Keep your head right and I'm sure you'll easily reach your goal!

Shot bro! Definately trying hey:) when are u looking at cycling??

To be honest I'm not 100% sure hey, thinking about starting soon otherwise only in August. And will probably end up running Test E @ 600mg for 10 weeks, with a 5 week Tbol kicker @ 60mg ED. Then a 40mg Winny & Proviron bridge up until PCT. Probably going to run Ovidrel in the bridge instead of during PCT.

Howzit guys,

@MK

Regarding the night sweats and anxiety, yes there symptoms you will probably experience at least that's how it was with me. Seem to be a general consensus on the net that 500mg per week + will give you some sort of anxiety, i tend to become overly worried about random kak but this was only for the first 2-3 weeks cant remember exactly. It was very evident when doing 2x 350mg shots per week, after the first week i couldn't handle that particular side and rather did a 0.5ml shot every second day. Lol its alot of injections and you gonna have to rotate injection sites a lot but i no longer had the anxiety at all. Ill try again next cycle perhaps my body reacts differently.

Commenting on the night sweats boet, you get the most vivid dreams, seriously cool and weird at the same time, i don't know how better to describe it but imaging shit seeming more real as weird as it sounds. Night sweats yes, but its nothing as bad as you think, really nothing to worry about at all.

With the doses lower dose test, higher dose equi, seems to be the most comment. I guess its all got to do as you said about koe you really want the equi to do all the work and not 'over saturate' your various receptors etc etc rather let the more expensive equi do as much as possible whilst still doing a decent amount of test keeping you incredibly anabolic.

With regards to your rugby, in my last cycle i did 20min light cardio (treadmill 5% gradient at 5km/h) i didn't find too much of an impact there specifically due i think to my heart rate sitting at around 100bpm. BUT when doing super sets or drop sets, omg the most painful pumps on earth, nothing not to expects from what ive read its very well knows that red blood cell production increases greatly with equi, there are reports that due to this high increase your blood pressure can be raised significantly due to the massive influx in rb cell production. I just got the pumps, but it can very easily prevents by keeping your heart rate stable and doing slow quality work. (my aim at the time was to cut cut and cut some more so super-sets was present in every workout for me)

If my ruff head calculations are correct you should make 15weeks just, but you will be in end pct (you'll have to do hcg injections throughout) so 15 weeks (and that's conservative for equi) will not be possible due to your restrictions mentioned.

Dude Dj's advice is king, ive always stuck with test c due to my cycling other compounds but 600mg per week split 2 shots Monday Thursday is 100s just keep ai on hand. You were talking about equi so i assume you could at least afford the anastrozole but off course all depending to your reaction, gyno prone etc etc.

Shot goodluck mate all the best.


@PoisonedPulse

Dude that an awfully great amount of gear... But each hes own and if it works run with it

I get your reasoning for using npp but why upp the test e ? 900mg is a kak load unless im missing something here i understand that npp being a 19-Nortestosterone based drug and is well documented to shutdown HPTA very easily similar to trenbolone. Most bodybuilders will use tren for around 6 weeks at the beginning of a cycle. NPP should be used in a similar manner.

A balanced cycle would be :

W1-10: equi 400mg a week
W1-9: test e 600mg a week (2ml a week 1ml mon 1ml thurs)
W1-8: npp 225mg E3D (every third day) (1.5ml if running pgw to make dosing easier)
W10-13: test Prop 150mg eod (1.5ml)

See the reasoning behind this being running the equi gets your eating up, increase vascularity and lean long term gain, also seems to help keep those quality gains for much longer im guessing as it works (only around beginning week 4/5) hand in hand with the shorter estered NPP being so awfully similar to deca (same base compound essentially) and gives you epic gains from the get go that stick. test e doing its thing not exactly in the background but keeping you incredibly anabolic and only adding to your gains.

But pay attention to the prop and timing of npp then test e then equi, allowing each compounds levels to drop. Dropping npp first i would just say is good practice and then test e and followed by equi due to compounds needing to drop to levels where pct can be begin. test prop used as bridge, my favorite (only pgw, all the other ug labs burn, and i really mean it... it really hurts) you are more than welcome to do stanozolol and proviron bridge or even test prop and stanozolol.

So yeah, all in all equi is great but as with everything in moderation not something you wanna play with and as always bread and butter test c,e,p must always be used.

Goodluck mate

The above mentioned is maar just a ruff guideline, and all based on what ive read and researched over the years so please don't take my word as gold but learn from it, feel free to correct me or critic

Take another +1 for taking the time out to explain all that for us bro, thanks.

EQ sounds like a helluva drug! Haha but seriously, I've also only ever heard great things about it.

I have an idea, but not sure if it will be that beneficial or necessary when I run my 10 week Test E cycle. What if I run 1ml (350mg) of EQ each week to aid with my appetite so that my 5000+cal diet will be that much easier?

My thinking is that at such a low dose, any sides (increased BP, night sweats, anxiety) would be minimised, whilst I could reap the benefits of an increased appetite and possibly some further lean gains.

Also because the half-life of EQ is 14 days I could then pin the 1ml once per week without affecting blood plasma levels too much (ie: 1ml Test E on Monday, 1ml Test E & 1ml EQ on Thursday).

If I don't mind spending the extra bucks on one vial of PGW Equipoise, would you say it's inclusion into my next cycle for the abovementioned reasons will be beneficial:

Week 1: 2ml/700mg EQ (frontload)
Week 2-9: 1ml/350mg EQ (on Thursdays)
Week 1-10: 2ml/600mg Test E (Monday & Thursday)
Week 1-5: 60mg Tbol ED
Week 11-14 (32 day Bridge): 40mg Winny & 40mg Proviron ED & 500iU Ovidrel EOD

PCT: Clomid & Nolva/Kessar

Regarding the AI, I was using Biotek Liquidex which I seriously think was bunk as even off 300mg Test E, taking 0.25mg EOD, I still experienced slight gyno symptoms. So I will be investing in some Arimidex tabs for the next cycle.

Thanks for all your help bud, really appreciate it!

Should equi not be run around 16weeks?

Howzit bud,

Yes i guess you could add it but its only gonna really start working at week 5ish and thats midway through cycle. If you could in anyway run minimum 15 weeks try for that, but as you mentioned you need to be injection free november.

See the equi at such a low dose per week would take just way too long to kick in, and being such a long ester gonna take too long to reach blood levels that are high enough to have a noticeable effect from an anabolic point of view. 350mg/week should still give you the appetite increase but mate id rather save for next cycle or perhaps using another compound on cycle. Whats your aas history like ? Perhaps look into running anavar for 6 weeks and so in cycle and during bridge. You'll get good results will cost a bit though its on the pricier oral side, also not as hectic on the liver so you can run for longer.

Regarding the letro, mate theres various opinions on here regarding anastrozole and letrozole the former being better. Many say letro is better at getting gyno down asap but theres many contradictory articles and posts describing letro as taking alot longer +- 2 weeks to reach acceptable levels. Armidex (i prefer anastrozole from LP) works immediately and with far less sides, you can easily reach maximum dosage if needed to treat your symptoms more aggressively.

Shot for the rep

I'd also say EQ at 350mg a week is pointless for gains. Run it at least 14 weeks, preferably 16. It really is quite mild even at 525mg/week . I've never been very impressed. Waiting 7/8 weeks to kick in really tests my patience but then it does work quite well. But it wouldn't be my first choice.

The reason letro is best for gyno is that it can reduce estradiol by 99+% while arimidex only reduces it by around 80%, even at 1mg a day.
But yep for prevention adex is better. I prefer aromasin. Least side effects and works well.

@Aspoester: Alright thanks for the advice bro, will rather just leave it out than waste money if I'll hardly get any benefit out of it.

I would love to include ghrp6 into the cycle to help with my appetite, but I can't get it, so it looks like I'm just going to have to get those cals down the old fashioned way.

If you were to suggest using another AAS to add to the cycle, what would it be (bearing in mind I can't really have too much in my system, hence why I need to be injection free by mid November).

I'm already going to be using 60mg Oral Tbol each day for the first 5 weeks on the cycle, however, that will be in the period where practices & games are still going on... Maybe should I use one vial of Test Prop for the first 2 weeks of the bridge?

Will also be getting either Arimidex or Aromasin for the cycle to keep on hand.

@Muscleaddict: Yeah I think if it's a waste in your guys' opinions then I'll just leave it. It was just a thought that I hoped would give me the extra edge. Thanks for your advice bud.

From what I've heard about Letro, I will never even look at the stuff. The sides just don't seem worth it, and after all, you do need some estro for gains.

just out of interest, what do you mean by you need to be injection free by November? will you be tested or just not able to pin

I'm a student and study in a different city, my exams end in November when I'll be flying home...

aha ok. was just making sure it's not for testing because they're detectable for fairly long after last injection.

Ok thanks Heretic, appreciate your concern. If I'm not correct, Test E is detectable up to 3 months, whilst Equipoise can be detected up to 5 months?

that's correct

Thanks bro, hoping to pick up a good 8-12kgs with my 5000cal diet and this cycle...

I think 8-10 is possible if you're strict with getting those calories in - that'll be the biggest problem. lol, I sometimes struggle to get in 3600

I will be happy with that, will try my best to stick to my diet and stuffing my face with clean cals... Any tips that you could possibly share that work for you when bulking?