Test Prop and TBol Cycle

VonD wrote:

CHAPEL wrote: I like the front loading idea, definitely worth a try I think. (guinea pig )

Chapel shall we do 2g test the first week or 1.5g

High Test does not do me any good, I prefer higher anabolic doses and lower test doses.

Alright thanks VonD, will look into it! And I have Arimidex (Liquidex) from my last cycle so will keep that on hand.

And Koe, what do you mean by that? Are you referring to stacking Test with a different compound? Would that be asking for trouble for a second cycle?

For me what works is low dose test and anabolics like Equipoise, primobolan, NPP,Deca,Winstrol, Anavar, Masteron.

Something to think about definitely! Not so sure for my second cycle though, but very interested.

Hey MK.

Not sure if you have made a call on this but I would do the Test Prop/OT cycle. My reasons are that it is a fairly mild cycle but should deliver good gains, not 8kg's worth, but realistically 4-6kg's clean mass when all is done and dusted. Its a short ester cycle so your pct starts quickly and you are not heavily complicating things with too many compounds. It also means you can get onto your following cycle more quickly.

You said you didn't want any water gains, the long esters in Supertest might give you that. It's only your second cycle, why not try the short esters and see if you prefer them to the long esters. I know my next cycle will be short esters, anything over 500mg Test C gives me AI issues of note.

IMO your OT should be run at 60mg/day and not more than 6 weeks. That dose was good for me and I had no sides.

I also agree with KOE. It's probably subjective but running relatively low test(around 350mg/week) stacked with something seems to be better for me personally, I think it depends on goals and how your body takes it.

If I was you I would run the short ester cycle to see how your body responds and then look at a long cycle (12 weeks+) with Test Prop and Equipoise to build LBM and blitz body fat.

Good luck bud.

Thanks very much Mfezdro.

I'm only going to be starting my second cycle in around August, so I'm keeping my options open to see what else has worked for others with similar stats and goals to me. I like your idea of trying a short ester this second time around to see my body's reaction to it, I was even considering adding 50mg Winny inject to the Prop as an ancillary, but I think I will keep it simple and run the Prop with Tbol and probably Proviron. I have been thinking about it, and have come to the conclusion that even if I do gain 4kgs at most, first of all its 4kgs of solid musclethat would have otherwise been very hard to get and secondly my overall gain would have probably been more, but the cycle itself has a possibility of helping me lower my BF% like it has for VonD's mate.

Several questions that I would please like clarification with:

1) Would I be able to take 50mg OT and only on training days, considering that I will rest on one day only each week?
2) Can I run the Proviron at 25-40mg throughout the full cycle?
3) Seeing that you would not run Test past 500mg per week, would you say only pinning Prop on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays be sufficient? Or strictly EOD?

I'm looking forward to this next cycle and hope to put on some quality size and strength that I can keep.

Thanks for your input bro, appreciate it.

No problem.
Run the OT everyday for 6 weeks. It comes in 20mg caps though so run 60mg/day for 6 weeks, but add in SAMe from Solal for help with your liver.

I would run Proviron at 40-60mg/day for the cycle up to your PCT.

DJ has previously suggested to me that Mon/Wed/Fri is fine for Prop. I have not used it but trust his advice, just see what the other guys say as well.

You can run Winny with it but the injectable has exactly the same effect on your liver and is painful, rather just go with the Oral then. I am running it at 50mg/day for 5 weeks now. If you decide on Winny then don't run the OT in the same cycle.

Just a thought on this, Prop kicks in pretty quickly, about 1-1.5 weeks I think, with a 2 week waiting period to PCT. Why not run O/t from week 5-10 or Oral Winny from week 6-10. Run Proviron throughout from week 1-10. This way you get a bridge into PCT and a good kick at the end of the cycle. Might be interesting to get the advanced guys thoughts on this?

Cheers

I can only get my hands on OralTech OT, which come as 10mg tabs... Good brand though, never tried LP and don't know of anyone who supplies it. If I run the TBol will definitely have some form of liver support in there.

I think I will run the Proviron at 40mg ED throughout the cycle instead of 60mg ED as I have never used it before and also want to keep my receptors reactive if I could put it that way, and run a slightly lower dose at first.

In the case of the Winny, I never knew that the injectable had the same effect on the liver as orals, which makes things a whole lot easier, thanks. What cycle are you currently running, what results have you had and how beneficial has the additional 50mg Winny been? Will only run Tbol OR Winny in that case.

I see what you're saying about running the oral during the second half of the cycle, but my question about that is what about the first 1.5-2 weeks where the Prop hasn't kicked in yet? I understand your logic, but don't you think I'd be better of running it in the beginning to fill that gap? Perhaps I should run a strong oral like DBol as a kicker for the first 3 weeks or so to fill the non-acting time period where Prop is inactive, then start OT or Winny from Week 5-10? That way I would optimise every day of the cycle whilst leaving a 2 week period for my liver to recover mid-cycle. That's just a thought by the way, I'm not stating it as an effective way...

From my understanding, and I stand to be corrected, but doesn't Prop have good strength gains with some size gains? If my goal is to pack on as much lean mass as possible from this cycle should I maybe favour the OT over the Winny? And then what about the kicker? Sorry if this is a bit confusing.

Ok we getting there.
I hear oraltech ot is fine but still run 60mg/day. Proviron at 40mg/day is fine hey. If cash is an issue you could even run it from week 4 after your dbol if you do that.

As for the dbol, I think it would be fine but it is going to give you some water. I hear what you are saying about maximising every day though. Think you should see what the more advanced guys say. I'm not sure about the 2 weeks being enough to recover though. Some guys use Test Prop to frontload so maybe dbol isnt necessary.

Tbol will give you the mass so use it as opposed to winny then to finish up. You can also then run it for 6 weeks from beginning of week 5.

I am bridging now. I used 500mg Test cyp for 10 weeks plus 6 weeks OT as a kicker. Also ran proviron from week 6. My bridge is 50mg winny and 40mg proviron. Tbol is great and so is strength from Winny. I have to be honest though i am typing this with an icebrick on my elbow and an ache in my liver area. I didnt have any crap from tbol at all. Winny has been a bit harsh. I have dropped bf and gained 7 kgs but have stabilised now at 4kgs up after dropping water. In general my lifts went up around 20-30% depending on the exercise. The test gave me water retention and gyno symptoms so i also ran Adex .4mg every 3rd day.

Good luck bud, I think you will enjoy this cycle.

I have used 50mg of oral T a day and it works fine, I have even run 30mg of oral t a days before with out any injectables(when I was young and stupid) and grew like a best, 40-60mg for oral t is perfect, I haven't used the oraltec oral t yet but if its anything to go on like the rest of the range its gonna be good.

Stick with 50mg a day,it will do a sterling job,running 60mg a day when tabs are 10mg tabs then becomes a bit of a cost issue.

Alright thanks for the input gents.

@Mfezdro: Not too concerned about the water from Dbol, tried it before and have only really got nice strength gains with some size. Perhaps some of the pros can help regarding the 'break' period from orals (except Proviron which is run throughout). Then will choose OT over Winny because I'm looking for mass... And I'm sorry to hear that man, hope it heals soon! Would you say the cycle was worth it?

@DJ: I have also used Oraltech's OT and it works for me so I think I will stick to it. Will use that dose, hopefully gonna get some good strength and size!

So would both of you agree with the cycle as follows:

Week 1-9: 450mg Test Prop (split Mon, Wed, Fri)
Week 1-11: 40mg Proviron ED
Week 1-3: 40mg DBol ED
Week 6-11: 50mg TBol ED

PCT - Start of Week 12:
Clomid, Kessar, Ovidrel.

I have extended the Prop by one week therefore allowing a 3 week 'break' between Dbol and Tbol. Is that period long enough to avoid liver damage? If not, what would you suggest? Hoping to drop some BF and finish with a final gain of about 6kgs up.

Also is Ovidrel vital for a cycle like this?

Thanks for your help guys.

I dont think you need ovidrel. But add if you can it wont do damage bud.

MK how did u find there OT? i have heard good reviews but havent used them yet.

I have an idea for your next cycle, always wanted to try it...
150mg testprop EOD about 10 weeks
150mg NPP EOD about 10 weeks
30mg LP Superbol ED first 17 days

@Gorilla: Yeah, see what you mean there, only reason I'm planning on using it because I just want to be extra cautious.

@DJ: Found their OT good, good strength gains and a kg or 2 of muscle. Heard that some describe it as a cross between Anavar and Dbol, and I see what they mean. However, I haven't used any other Tbol besides theirs so I can't compare.

@Thunderbeast: I actually posted a suggestion just like that as my first post, but came to the conclusion that I'll rather wait until I have a few cycles under my belt before I even look at any suppressive, such as NPP. You know anyone who has used NPP, and if so what were their gains like?

Hi guys

Found out today that I can get LP Tbol 50x 20mg caps, so I think I might end up running that instead of Dbol. My question is, can Tbol be effectively run at 40mg ED for 4 weeks and have me see some good results? Or would I need to bump up the dose to 60mg for 6 weeks? At the moment the cycle is looking like this:

Week 1-2: 500mg Sust
Week 3-12: 640mg Supertest
Week 1-4: 40mg Tbol ED
Week 7-17: 40mg Proviron ED
Week 13-17: 40mg Winny ED

PCT: Clomid, Kessar, Ovidrel

The reason for running Proviron for such a long time was initially because I was planning on using Dbol instead of Tbol, so it would help me lose the water retention that I would have gained from Dbol. Also, I was planning on using Proviron from week 7 for its mild anti-estrogen effects. Would you say that now that I'm using Tbol instead of Dbol, I should rather save money for a higher Tbol dose & duration and only run the Proviron when I start my bridge (with Winny)? Thanks in advance.

How much do you weigh? I found 40mg of tbol a little bit low.

Why not pin 1000mg sust the first week then continue with 640mg from there on?

@Eidolon: It's kind of hard to tell how much I think I'll weigh because I'm only starting in August. But hopefully around 90-92kgs with about 10-12% BF... Also heard that 40mg is a bit low from other members. Would you only take it on training days? So skip taking the oral on the rest day during your week? Bumping up the dose to 60mg is going to mean that I'm going to need to buy another bottle of Tbol which doesn't come cheap, so just wanting to know if it makes that much of a difference and is actually worth it?

@Gorilla: a gram of Sust! Don't you think that's a bit much for a second cycle? I know this frontloading is supposed to quicken the results from the Test, but do you think its worth the associated sides that I'm probably going to get from it?

I'm wondering if Tbol makes that much of a difference as compared to Dbol, besides the water retention. The Tbol will also cost nearly triple that of the Dbol if I decide to use it... Thanks guys

Its just a thought bro. I like the idea and its only for one week, I am def going to pin 1000mg cyp the first week of my cycle then 500mg from there on.

When are you planning on starting? Hopefully if it's before me you can let me know how it goes...

In a month or two, I have my shit just waiting for the perfect moment to druk daai naald diep. :lol:

The reason for the delay is my life is pretty busy at the moment and have to move soon so after thats sorted and cortisol is low, Ill start. Im also trying weird training techniques and guess what? Im 2kgs up!

Nice bro, are you going to be posting a cycle log? What have you been changing with your training? 2kgs is a good gain!

I try training as intense as possible, for legs I start with 10 sets squats on heavy weight then I do leg extensions,lunges,stepups and leg press for say 4 sets each.45seconds rest per set.

The rest is based on that principle, High volume for a first exercise. Then I go to failure for the rest, say I do dumbell press 45kgs for 12 reps and I feel I can press more I do like 15 with my spotter close by. Then I up the weight to 50 and do 10-11 reps then I up the weight until I fail everytime, but I realise I cant do this too much because of overtraining,but I feel fine and 2kgs in one month is great for me!

PS: Im using whey,creatine,bcaa,glutamine and I started taking glucose post workout this month.

Nice man, strength is good keep it up!