Test Prop and TBol Cycle

Hi guys

Just out of interest's sake, what are your opinions on an 8 week cycle of Test Prop and Oral TBol? ARe there particular doses or methods to work out those doses that would be needed to see some quality results? Trying to keep my options open here for my next cycle so just wanting to know all your opinions.

I had in mind:

Week 1-8: 100mg PGW Test Prop (Mon, Wed, Fri split)
Week 1-8: 40-50mg TBol ED
Week 1-8: 40mg Proviron ED

Week 9-12: PCT 2* (*would Ovidrel be entirely necessary for such a cycle?)

If I get my stats to 92kg, 10% BF, 1.79m tall by the start of this cycle, what would be some great goals to set for myself for a cycle like this in terms of Weight and BF%, provided diet is spot on?

I want to gain some good lean mass gains but want to start slow as it will be my second cycle and I want to keep my receptors as fresh as possible. I read about the Anavar & Test Prop sample cycle, but the reason I am using TBol is because I would prefer additional size than strength.

Let me know what you guys think, thanks in advance.

I dont think it will be smart to run tbol that long, 6 weeks rather and go for 80mg daily. Sounds good to me further

I agree with you slightly on that one Gorilla, except I'm a little wary about that daily dose of 80mg of TBol... From what I've seen on this site, some experienced users only use 60mg ED for only 5 Weeks, could any more experienced users perhaps give their opinions? But thanks for your suggestion man.

Yeah 80mg is a bit high, sorry bud i meant 60mg. Thats what the site says. Why so little test after your current cycle?

I wouldnt expect too much size gains with 300mg weekly, maybe if its your first. Why dont you do like 150mg or 200mg EOD?

60mg of tbol is good one of my close friends is using it.he is on week 4 now.his prop dose is just higher he is doing 450mg a week spilt into 3 shots.tue,thur,sat.he is just not using proviron.results are looking solid.lean gains limited water

@Gorilla: Yeah I was about to say, 80mg ED for 6 weeks is probably as bad as 50mg for 8 weeks. What do you mean 'so little test after your current cycle'? Not too sure what you mean bro. I can do 150mg EOD of Test Prop, but wouldn't like to do more than 1.5mls per shot...

@VonD: Thanks man glad to see someone is seeing results off 60mg ED TBol. And is only a 3 day split alright for Test Prop with such a short ester life? What have his strength and mass results been like, and BF? What would you say about 8 weeks Test P 150mg EOD with 60mg ED TBol for 6 weeks and 40mg Proviron ED throughout? I'm looking to drop a little BF but mainly increase mass to 100kilos. Think that's unreasonable?

wel it is eod shots just for the one day where there is a gap.but results are looking good his abs are clearly visible.vascularity is still more or less the same except on his chest its more profound.His bf is dowm 0.5% but he has gained 3.1kg.you might reach 100kg but i doubt it.diet would have to be spot on and its also has to do with how you react to the stack.I like that 150mg eod with the 60mg tbol and 40mg proviron.results will be good if accompanied by a solid diet.6kg i would say should be expected.

Yes 6kg is realistic, 8kg's with a drop of bodyfat would need some NPP or tren hahaha.

MK, arent you using 800mg test weekly at the mo.?

@VonD: Yeah I see what you mean about the EOD shots, but is it okay to have a two day break or is it advisable to be strictly EOD? And for 4 weeks in, those gains are quite good especially seeing that he's only in week 4 now and that the Tbol and Prop give solid gains instead of water weight. Also I'm sure his net gain would have been better if his BF% hadn't dropped, which isn't a bad thing at all. 6kgs is definately an excellent gain especially if they were solely solid muscle, but like I said my goal is 100kg and I will get there some way or another.

@Gorilla: Yes I think I was being a bit too optimistic about the 8kg gain in lean mass, so will definately wait a while (and a few cycles) before I even consider such suppressive compounds like NPP or Tren. And no I am not hey, I recently finished 8 weeks of Test E at 300mg per week, total waste. Should definately have listened to the pros. I did however suggest a 10 week cycle for my next cycle (also bearing in mind that Time On + PCT = Time Off) of Supertest at 640mg per week. Thought of kicking it with EITHER 200mg Test Prop per week OR 50mg TBol ED for the first 5 weeks. But I am a little wary of running 840mg of Test then dropping to 640mg mid-cycle which I think could mess around with my blood levels. So would probably go for the Tbol stacked with the Supertest if I had to choose.

So my goals are primarily lean MASS with an overall goal of 100kgs (starting cycle at +- 92kgs) and lowering BF% is not my main goal but would be nice, but I am not aiming to add any more BF obviously. Cycle options that I have in mind are:

1) 10 weeks Supertest @ 640mg per week WITH 50mg TBol for first 5 weeks + 40mg Proviron ED throughout
2) 8 Weeks Test Prop @ 450mg per week (Mon, Wed, Fri) with 50mg TBol for first 6 weeks + 40mg Proviron throughout cycle

Any other cycles or even individual compounds you guys think I should look into that will help me reach my goals? I really don't want to be disappointed like I was last time, and I realise that diet, training and rest all play significant roles with attaining my goals. Not looking for mass at any cost that includes fat and water retention, but am rather looking for quality gains. Thanks gents.

Why don't you do supertest @ 640mg weekly, for 10-15 weeks. Add some arimidex if you don't like water. Frontload with tbol @ 50mg for 6 weeks. Bridge to pct with anavar and proviron.

That should give you 8kgs solid with 1-2% drop in bodyfat. Just check the liver values with all those orals.

Thanks Gorilla. I think I might end up doing that, just a bit worried about the Supertest for such a short period of time if I do run it for 10 weeks only, and from what I understand, of that 640mg of Supertest, 400mg is of Test Cyp and Enanthate which is only 100mg more than last cycle. I would preferably like to run Supertest for 12 weeks but my supplier can't get more than two vials of Supertest for me because they are not selling PGW for much longer. So could something like Sust be used for the additional 2 weeks if I extend the cycle to 12 weeks? Or do I need to stick to Supertest? I am currently looking for another source so hopefully will be able to get my hands on some more ST, but if not would Sust suffice? I think any more than 12 weeks would only further suppress the lads downstairs which I don't really want to be doing.

I think I would use proviron ON cycle to minimise bloat and to free the extra test, keeping Arimidex on hand and then winny as a bridge before a PCT of Ovidrel, Clomid and Kessar.

Any more suggestions would be appreciated.

test is test.. the sust will be fine if you can't get more ST.

@CHAPEL: Yes I realise that, but my only concern is the longer esters that, from what I've learnt from my first experience, take a while to kick in and require a dose thats moderate (above 300mg per week). Thanks for the insight about the sust man. Do you think it's fine if it is only run at 500mg per week for the first 5 weeks?

you could always double dose your first week then it kicks in sooner.

Maybe what I should be asking, is there anyone who has had success with a short ester cycle with gaining lean mass that's appropriate for a relative beginner? This obviously then discludes suppressive compounds like Tren and NPP, and if their cycle was Test based could they please share it? Or even anyone who has had goals and stats similar to mine, if they could please share their successful cycle history. Would be much appreciated!

yes but the active test level in your system will be elevated already so the sust will just add to it, no need to worry about the kick in, as far as I can tell that is. No I would go for the full 2mls of ST the whole way until it runs out. Hopefully in this time period you will have found another source for it and then you can extend to the 12 weeks at the full dose that you want.

Hope that answers your question.

If your not including tren/npp more than 6kg's lean seems allot to gain on test only.

@VonD: Frontloading? Good idea bro, only problem is, my first two weeks will be with 500mg of Sust and not Supertest... Would 1g of Sust in week 1, 750mg in week 2 and then 640mg of Supertest from week 3 to 12 be effective? If so, would you still suggest the TBol as a kicker, or any kicker for that matter? I'm assuming that with such high Test doses in the first 2 weeks, a great deal of sides are gonna accompany them, so should I run Arimidex @ 0.25mg ED for the first 2 weeks and then keep it on hand from then onwards?

@CHAPEL: Okay thanks man, I also think that's a good alternative. Much clearer now, thanks.

@VonD: I will take your word for it, especially after reading some of your posts that show some of your cycle history. My reason for using Test only, is I don't want to screw with my receptors so early so that a little later along the line I hardly react to anything, even at high doses...

I like the front loading idea, definitely worth a try I think. (guinea pig )

Strength should be up by week 3 regardless because of the orals but the test will kick in quicker so iwould think mid week 3.

CHAPEL wrote: I like the front loading idea, definitely worth a try I think. (guinea pig )

Chapel shall we do 2g test the first week or 1.5g

hahaha! Definitely going to give it a shot next cycle

I also like the idea of frontloading, but would only be able to do so with Sust as I can only get 2 vials of Supertest in the mean time. I know Chapel you said keep the Sust for the last 2 weeks, but could it be used in the first 2 weeks for frontloading purposes? That's my thought seeing it seems logical as Sust and Supertest have very similar esters within them... Would the Arimidex be needed for the frontload period and if a frontload is used is a TBol kicker also necessary?

I would go for the tbol and test frontload.i would also get adex.if cash is a prob go for letro but it is shits ask any one.adex works better as it kicks in quick and does not make you feel so kak.

Go all out