TRT protocol - Advice needed.

Hi Guys,

I have been on TRT for just over three months now, but the clinic I go to and the protocol is ridiculously expensive. I thought the cost of Nebido was high, but mine is way higher at the moment. Cost is R500 a week for the "treatment" shots, add to that the ancillary meds and its costing around R3000 - R3500 per month :ohmy:

I am due to have my 3-month blood work done now, but I am really considering going the route for self-treating. The injectables are a well-known lab that is easily available from other sources other than my Dr as well, and I could probably source a 5 month supply for what I'm paying for a single month.

This is my current prescribed protocol:

Testosterone Cyp 200 - 0.5ml - 100mg once a week
Mastaject 200 (Drostanolone) - 0.5ml - 100mg once per week (mixed with test 1ml of mix)
HCG 5,000 - 0.5ml (50 units) - 12,500iu once a week
DHEA 25mg - 1 tablet per day (last bottle now is 12.5mg)

My question is if I go at it alone, should I stick to this protocol? I might adjust the test dose dependant on what my blood results show. Is drostanolone often prescribed on TRT, and would I be better off substituting it with Proviron, or maybe drop it completely? I think I would definitely drop the DHEA, and since my wife is sterilised, and I don't plan on having more kids, I might just drop the HCG as well. Is this a standard TRT dose of HCG?

Thanks in advance.

C0die wrote: Hi Guys,

I have been on TRT for just over three months now, but the clinic I go to and the protocol is ridiculously expensive. I thought the cost of Nebido was high, but mine is way higher at the moment. Cost is R500 a week for the "treatment" shots, add to that the ancillary meds and its costing around R3000 - R3500 per month :ohmy:

I am due to have my 3-month blood work done now, but I am really considering going the route for self-treating. The injectables are a well-known lab that is easily available from other sources other than my Dr as well, and I could probably source a 5 month supply for what I'm paying for a single month.

This is my current prescribed protocol:

Testosterone Cyp 200 - 0.5ml - 100mg once a week
Mastaject 200 (Drostanolone) - 0.5ml - 100mg once per week (mixed with test 1ml of mix)
HCG 5,000 - 0.5ml (50 units) - 12,500iu once a week
DHEA 25mg - 1 tablet per day (last bottle now is 12.5mg)

My question is if I go at it alone, should I stick to this protocol? I might adjust the test dose dependant on what my blood results show. Is drostanolone often prescribed on TRT, and would I be better off substituting it with Proviron, or maybe drop it completely? I think I would definitely drop the DHEA, and since my wife is sterilised, and I don't plan on having more kids, I might just drop the HCG as well. Is this a standard TRT dose of HCG?

Thanks in advance.

Don't use underground labs for medical TRT requirement, I know this first hand, your bloods will not be consistent.

Why would a Dr prescribe masteron, and if he did how did you get pharma grade, or did you have a section 21 against you and it was imported for you?

What was your DHEA levels on before you TRT treatment ?

It's not Pharma grade, rules prohibit me from mentioning the well-known brand that's available online and other sources. Test Cyp and HCG was the same brand.

He didn't actually tell me that he's giving me Masteron, I happened to see the bottle when he was combining them. I didn't know what it was until researching the brand name. At the time, I asked him what the second vial was, and he said it's an AI. Now, as far as I know, Drostanolone does have some AI properties, but I think he's maybe added it because it will bind to SHBG, which will increase bio-available testosterone.

DHEA levels pre-treatment were 5.7umol/L (range 3.8 - 13.1)
With the limited research I have done on DHEA, it seems like it's more of a "snake-oil" rather than the wonder drug it's made out to be by the supplement industry, hence the reason I would probably drop it.

C0die wrote: It's not Pharma grade, rules prohibit me from mentioning the well-known brand that's available online and other sources. Test Cyp and HCG was the same brand.

He didn't actually tell me that he's giving me Masteron, I happened to see the bottle when he was combining them. I didn't know what it was until researching the brand name. At the time, I asked him what the second vial was, and he said it's an AI. Now, as far as I know, Drostanolone does have some AI properties, but I think he's maybe added it because it will bind to SHBG, which will increase bio-available testosterone.

DHEA levels pre-treatment were 5.7umol/L (range 3.8 - 13.1)
With the limited research I have done on DHEA, it seems like it's more of a "snake-oil" rather than the wonder drug it's made out to be by the supplement industry, hence the reason I would probably drop it.

Your DHEA was low, mine was high 14.6 (no hormones being used at the time of testing).

I'm not being funny but I would never use a Dr giving me underground gear. I have Dr's working with me using schedule 8 medication that have a section 21 that the MCC have granted me (6 month supply at a time), so if you going through a Dr and using underground gear then I can't help you.. Masteron is nothing like an AI (I'm talking Arimidex and Letro), absolutely nothing.

DHEA is important to have balanced, then having your Test levels fall between the lines (this goes down to how you feel where on the scale you sit), weighing in side effects. I freak out when I read what DHEA can do so I'm happy I don't need to supplement with it, but if your DHEA is low then I guess you do need to, unless it's balanced now ?

An AI is vital depending upon where your E2 levels are sitting, E2 and Test have to be 'closely' balanced (I don't know that number, but from experience with an Endo he explained not just having these numbers between the lines, but very closely aligned to each other is what is important (I will find out more information the next time I go for a visit (next Friday))).

Ditch the masteron, use TRT like TRT is designed and then cycle when you want to and include masteron, EQ, deca whatever else you feel like, but don't use it in TRT unless you have a seriously valid medical reason, and if that is the case, have your specialist write a section 21 (I can nearly assure you that a GP will not get a section 21 for masterson, an endo could with a very specific medical report showing the need for it) and then get it from a pharmaceutical company and use the dose you are required for the medical need. With underground gear you are going to get inconsistency, you are going to be too high, or too low and each batch will be different. If you are needing testosterone for medical purposes then do it properly... Everyone is jumping on the TRT bandwagon as a way to 'legally get told they can use gear and want to look jacked'.

12,500 iu of hCG a week ?

Make that 2,500iu... :ohmy:

Why are you using the Hcg? If you're planning to remain on TRT, you don't need to "restart" your system and you don't plan on having more kids, so Hcg is unnecessary. Hcg is renowned for raising your estrogen. If you don't need DHEA according to your bloods, don't take it. The less product you put in, the less hassles you have. Also test your E, have Adex or a similar AI on hand but don't take it as a given. Adex crashed my estrogen and it was horrible. Like Pump says, use the masteron ect when you blast. Otherwise run your TRT as simply as possible.

I hear what he says about Dr's scripts and agree, but it's not easy to find the right Doc out in the sticks, I am now treating myself and not through a doc and haver been for 2 years or so. I have experienced some weird blood results recently which make me concerned about low dosed goods, but overall it works for me.

Just by the way, if your doctor is adding an underground labs masteron into your TRT as an "AI", without telling you or disclosing that, he's both clueless and irresponsible with your health, I'd run a fucking mile....


Good luck.

Mfezdro wrote: Why are you using the Hcg? If you're planning to remain on TRT, you don't need to "restart" your system and you don't plan on having more kids, so Hcg is unnecessary. Hcg is renowned for raising your estrogen. If you don't need DHEA according to your bloods, don't take it. The less product you put in, the less hassles you have. Also test your E, have Adex or a similar AI on hand but don't take it as a given. Adex crashed my estrogen and it was horrible. Like Pump says, use the masteron ect when you blast. Otherwise run your TRT as simply as possible.

I hear what he says about Dr's scripts and agree, but it's not easy to find the right Doc out in the sticks, I am now treating myself and not through a doc and haver been for 2 years or so. I have experienced some weird blood results recently which make me concerned about low dosed goods, but overall it works for me.

Just by the way, if your doctor is adding an underground labs masteron into your TRT as an "AI", without telling you or disclosing that, he's both clueless and irresponsible with your health, I'd run a fucking mile....


Good luck.

Which underground lab are you using and are you using depo or test e?

I would guess HD labs, said mastaject in first post.

I’m using PGW testocyp 250.
I’ve had some really strange low test numbers. I had no problems around 12 months ago, consistently in mid 600’s but my last two bloods have been half that. Don’t have exact results here but can post later.

The HCG is just part of his protocol and is included in the R500 weekly treatment. Like I said in my OP, I would most likely drop the HCG or maybe cycle it if I decide to start self-treating. As scary as it sometimes seems, I think I would be OK with some ball shrinkage.

I was also very shocked when I Google'd what Masterject was. I will be bringing it up with him if I decide to see him again.

Hey Guys, New to the forum.

I just started my TRT protocol and I am assuming its with the same clinic/doctor.

I also find it alarming that the doc did not want to disclose exactly what he was mixing in my vial.

I am now on my second month.
Initial treatment was

Test cyp 1 ml per week + "AI" (200mg)
.5 ml HCG per week
proviron 1 tab every second day
DHEA once a day
copper+zinc+selenium 2x a day
Vitanin D3 once a week (50000iu)
pt141 once a day.

from the second month everything is the same I just dropped the pt141 as it changed the tone of my skin too much to my liking.

The reason for me seeking the treatment was I am suffering from severe depression and the anti-depressants just isn't working anymore.

Since I started the treatment I can feel an enormous difference in my mood.

I cant afford the R3500 a month treatment through the doc and as the OP said, it can easily cover a few months worth of treatment.

my concern is the blood work and getting off the anti-depressants for good as my case isn't just the normal trt protocol you see by doing research on the web.

Sorry if this is Hi-jacking the OP thread but it all seems very similar. ANY advice will be greatly appreciated.

Apoc21 wrote: Hey Guys, New to the forum.

I just started my TRT protocol and I am assuming its with the same clinic/doctor.

I also find it alarming that the doc did not want to disclose exactly what he was mixing in my vial.

I am now on my second month.
Initial treatment was

Test cyp 1 ml per week + "AI" (200mg)
.5 ml HCG per week
proviron 1 tab every second day
DHEA once a day
copper+zinc+selenium 2x a day
Vitanin D3 once a week (50000iu)
pt141 once a day.

from the second month everything is the same I just dropped the pt141 as it changed the tone of my skin too much to my liking.

The reason for me seeking the treatment was I am suffering from severe depression and the anti-depressants just isn't working anymore.

Since I started the treatment I can feel an enormous difference in my mood.

I cant afford the R3500 a month treatment through the doc and as the OP said, it can easily cover a few months worth of treatment.

my concern is the blood work and getting off the anti-depressants for good as my case isn't just the normal trt protocol you see by doing research on the web.

Sorry if this is Hi-jacking the OP thread but it all seems very similar. ANY advice will be greatly appreciated.

I was treated for 7 years on anti depressants.. when I decided to take my hormones seriously I realized I was low in test. I don't need proviron or any of random crap just testosterone.. I would lose my shit with Dr if he mixed something for me to take without me knowing, actually I would never consume something these days without knowing what it was. Your Dr is not some lab making proprietary blends.. And going back to the anti depressants I don't take a single thing anymore, no antipsychotics, no antidepressants, no no stimulants (ritalin), no provigil, no memantine, no donepezil, no 'mood stabilizers', just testosterone.. So you can see my case I was on a bucket load of meds and I didn't need some GP mixing crap for me. I needed a skilled endo who knew what he was doing balancing my hormones via a script I take to the pharmacy.

00pump wrote: I was treated for 7 years on anti depressants.. when I decided to take my hormones seriously I realized I was low in test. I don't need proviron or any of random crap just testosterone.. I would lose my shit with Dr if he mixed something for me to take without me knowing, actually I would never consume something these days without knowing what it was. Your Dr is not some lab making proprietary blends.. And going back to the anti depressants I don't take a single thing anymore, no antipsychotics, no antidepressants, no no stimulants (ritalin), no provigil, no memantine, no donepezil, no 'mood stabilizers', just testosterone.. So you can see my case I was on a bucket load of meds and I didn't need some GP mixing crap for me. I needed a skilled endo who knew what he was doing balancing my hormones via a script I take to the pharmacy.

Thanks for the reply, I am also on a range of meds and want to get off it as its just not working. I have been on the meds for 8 years now.

Going through the endo and getting you prescription through the pharmacy is cost less the the OP mentioned above? as purely just getting the test through him which he supplies out of his office costs R2k a month(4ml) which is ridiculous.

Did you ween off the anti depressants and over what time-period?

What is your TRT protocol?

Apoc21 wrote:

00pump wrote: I was treated for 7 years on anti depressants.. when I decided to take my hormones seriously I realized I was low in test. I don't need proviron or any of random crap just testosterone.. I would lose my shit with Dr if he mixed something for me to take without me knowing, actually I would never consume something these days without knowing what it was. Your Dr is not some lab making proprietary blends.. And going back to the anti depressants I don't take a single thing anymore, no antipsychotics, no antidepressants, no no stimulants (ritalin), no provigil, no memantine, no donepezil, no 'mood stabilizers', just testosterone.. So you can see my case I was on a bucket load of meds and I didn't need some GP mixing crap for me. I needed a skilled endo who knew what he was doing balancing my hormones via a script I take to the pharmacy.

Thanks for the reply, I am also on a range of meds and want to get off it as its just not working. I have been on the meds for 8 years now.

Going through the endo and getting you prescription through the pharmacy is cost less the the OP mentioned above? as purely just getting the test through him which he supplies out of his office costs R2k a month(4ml) which is ridiculous.

Pay less initially to see a GP who is NOT trained to treat this from every angel or pay more for someone who is.. My blood tests was 5k so that already shows that you only having a very small aspect of your endocrine system being looked at and any reference range you get can't 'mathematically' be aligned due to lack of context / not having the full puzzle or else its guess work.. You get an initial base and work from there.. If you want more information start your own thread as this is being hijacked now. The end of the day it's a couple hundred bucks for my treatment a month which I only need a new script every 6 months..

Thanks.

I have created a new thread

I think I can guarantee it's the same clinic/Dr based on an almost identical protocol.
He also gave me the Proviron, but I haven't taken any, and I just keep them on hand just in case.

Since my OP, I have now self-treating. I am doing 0.25ml (62.5mg) of test every 3.5 days (125mg per week). I dropped the masteron and the HCG, but may decide to cycle the HCG. Can't be 100% sure, but I was feeling better when taking it. I am still taking the DHEA, but only because I still have. My bloods show that my levels are up, so I might continue with the half-dose 12.5mg tabs. I was on the same 50,000iu Vitamin D3 tabs and my levels are also up, so I will continue with that as well.
As for the PT141, I did source more when I got the test, but I'm only pinning twice a week on the same days as the test.

At the price of the test, considering 10ml is basically a 20 week supply, it's a no brainer for me to self-treat. I am just wondering now whether any of our labs will run tests without a referring Dr?

Bloods were taken the day before my scheduled weekly injection @ 7:00 am.
My iron seems to be very low now, and I'm a bit worried about my PSA increasing.
The number in brackets was the end of 2018, after that is recent tests.

Vitamin D3 - (36) 69
DHEA - (5.7) 7.1
S-Ferritin - (71) 22.3 (on the low side now)
S-PSA - (0.37) 4.48 (on the high side now)
S-TSH - (1.59) 1.86
Insulin - (6.3) 3.7
Oesradiol - (68) 94
Total Test - 18.8 (22.2)
Free Test - 318 (561)
SHBG - (47) 25.3
LH - (2.3) 0.5
Corisol - (187) 237
S-Cholestrol - (4.5) 4.6
S-HDL - (1.2) 1.1 (also seems low)

C0die wrote: I think I can guarantee it's the same clinic/Dr based on an almost identical protocol.
He also gave me the Proviron, but I haven't taken any, and I just keep them on hand just in case.

Since my OP, I have now self-treating. I am doing 0.25ml (62.5mg) of test every 3.5 days (125mg per week). I dropped the masteron and the HCG, but may decide to cycle the HCG. Can't be 100% sure, but I was feeling better when taking it. I am still taking the DHEA, but only because I still have. My bloods show that my levels are up, so I might continue with the half-dose 12.5mg tabs. I was on the same 50,000iu Vitamin D3 tabs and my levels are also up, so I will continue with that as well.
As for the PT141, I did source more when I got the test, but I'm only pinning twice a week on the same days as the test.

At the price of the test, considering 10ml is basically a 20 week supply, it's a no brainer for me to self-treat. I am just wondering now whether any of our labs will run tests without a referring Dr?

Bloods were taken the day before my scheduled weekly injection @ 7:00 am.
My iron seems to be very low now, and I'm a bit worried about my PSA increasing.
The number in brackets was the end of 2018, after that is recent tests.

Vitamin D3 - (36) 69
DHEA - (5.7) 7.1
S-Ferritin - (71) 22.3 (on the low side now)
S-PSA - (0.37) 4.48 (on the high side now)
S-TSH - (1.59) 1.86
Insulin - (6.3) 3.7
Oesradiol - (68) 94
Total Test - 18.8 (22.2)
Free Test - 318 (561)
SHBG - (47) 25.3
LH - (2.3) 0.5
Corisol - (187) 237
S-Cholestrol - (4.5) 4.6
S-HDL - (1.2) 1.1 (also seems low)

Holy cow you insulin is low, you certainly not insulin resistant :lol: . Your Ferritin is very low, and you feeling 'better on the HCG' might not be the case, you have so little iron that you struggling to transport oxygen around your body and putting strain your heart. Do you by any chance have RBC bloods and WBC ? I would not donate again until you get your iron up, you must be feeling shocking and no energy or wanting to sleep allot. You test levels look great.. Was your Cortisol fasted? If so both the left and the right is low, you want cortisol around 260. Are you taking any 'natural supplements, like stress damage control, etc?'. Your PSA is probably up because of the DHT's you have been taking, don't keep them on hand for any reason.

Thanks for the reply 00pump,
Insulin has always been pretty good, but 3.7 is the best it's been recently. I'll keep an eye on it to see if it stays around that level. I was quite surprised by my ferritin level as I'm a regular blood donor, and I have never had a problem with my iron levels before. I am considering supplementing or just look out for a decent multivitamin a good iron. I am surprised that iron has such an impact, and it could in fact be the reason I am feeling a bit sluggish and tired.
All tests were fasted, and early in the morning. I was always under the false belief that lower cortisol is better, it's only recently that I discovered that higher is better. I am not taking any supplements other than DHEA, is there anything you would recommend? And you're saying I should stop the DHEA, even though it's helped bring my DHEA levels up?
Thanks

C0die wrote: Thanks for the reply 00pump,
Insulin has always been pretty good, but 3.7 is the best it's been recently. I'll keep an eye on it to see if it stays around that level. I was quite surprised by my ferritin level as I'm a regular blood donor, and I have never had a problem with my iron levels before. I am considering supplementing or just look out for a decent multivitamin a good iron. I am surprised that iron has such an impact, and it could in fact be the reason I am feeling a bit sluggish and tired.
All tests were fasted, and early in the morning. I was always under the false belief that lower cortisol is better, it's only recently that I discovered that higher is better. I am not taking any supplements other than DHEA, is there anything you would recommend? And you're saying I should stop the DHEA, even though it's helped bring my DHEA levels up?
Thanks

No dude your iron is stupid low you going to need a script for ferrimed and let's hold thumbs your body absorbs it, if it doesn't you will need to go on a drip. Monitor your ferritin, it's extremely overlooked by many drs and make sure it's high enough before your next blood donation or increase your donating to every 6 months. Do you eat allot of red meat?

I would not stop the DHEA if it's doing its job, I just personally dislike it as it throws hormones all over the show so use it until it's not required, hopefully within the next 3 months.

You didnt tell me if you have bloods for your hemoglobin and white blood count ?

Is Ferritin something that fluctuates through the day like hormones, or do minerals and trace elements stay pretty constant throughout?

FULL BLOOD COUNT
> ERYTHROCYTE COUNT 5.38 x10^12/L (4.5 - 6.5)
> HAEMOGLOBIN 16.2 g/dL (13.8 - 18.8 )
> HAEMATOCRIT 0.51 L/L (0.40 - 0.56)
> MCV 94.1 fL (79 - 100)
> MCH 30.1 pg (27 - 35)
> MCHC 32.0 g/dL (32 - 36)
> RDW 11.5 % (11.0 - 16.0)
> LEUCOCYTE COUNT 6.07 x 10^9/L (4.0 - 12.0)
> Neutrophils 4.03 x 10^9/L (2.0 - 7.5)
> Lymphocytes 1.50 x 10^9/L (1.0 - 4.0)
> Monocytes 0.35 x 10^9/L (0.2 - 1.0)
> Eosinophils 0.14 x 10^9/L (0.0 - 0.5)
> Basophils 0.05 x 10^9/L (0.0 - 0.3)
> PLATELETS 295 x 10^9/L (150 - 450)

C0die wrote: Is Ferritin something that fluctuates through the day like hormones, or do minerals and trace elements stay pretty constant throughout?

FULL BLOOD COUNT
> ERYTHROCYTE COUNT 5.38 x10^12/L (4.5 - 6.5)
> HAEMOGLOBIN 16.2 g/dL (13.8 - 18.8 )
> HAEMATOCRIT 0.51 L/L (0.40 - 0.56)
> MCV 94.1 fL (79 - 100)
> MCH 30.1 pg (27 - 35)
> MCHC 32.0 g/dL (32 - 36)
> RDW 11.5 % (11.0 - 16.0)
> LEUCOCYTE COUNT 6.07 x 10^9/L (4.0 - 12.0)
> Neutrophils 4.03 x 10^9/L (2.0 - 7.5)
> Lymphocytes 1.50 x 10^9/L (1.0 - 4.0)
> Monocytes 0.35 x 10^9/L (0.2 - 1.0)
> Eosinophils 0.14 x 10^9/L (0.0 - 0.5)
> Basophils 0.05 x 10^9/L (0.0 - 0.3)
> PLATELETS 295 x 10^9/L (150 - 450)

Ok it isn't what I was worried about.. No ferritin is not a 'fasted' test and it can be done any time of the day. If it's low it's not going up until you body absorbs iron.

Thanks for the helpful replies 00pump.

Any recommendations for iron and cortisol supplements that I could take, available over the counter?
Cortisol would be something for adrenal fatigue?

EDIT
I am not a menstruating female, so from the quick reading I did, it seems strange that I am suffering from iron deficiency without anaemia.

C0die wrote: Thanks for the helpful replies 00pump.

Any recommendations for iron and cortisol supplements that I could take, available over the counter?
Cortisol would be something for adrenal fatigue?

EDIT
I am not a menstruating female, so from the quick reading I did, it seems strange that I am suffering from iron deficiency without anaemia.

How do you know you don't have anemia ?

You need ferrimed, it is a scheduled drug and you need to take low iron seriously.

I'm assuming it's not anaemia because of the normal haemoglobin levels?

This Ferrimed - www.dischem.co.za/ferrimed-60-capsules
Seems to be available of the shelf.