Squats

I was wondering if squats are really that necessary for impressive leg development? Im asking because not everyone is that suited for squats (limb lengths etc) so not everyone can get the same effect squatting. In the end, do you only have to do what feels right to you? Like if you do leg press and feel your quads working better than squats? I am quite tall, 6'1, and struggle to keep a straight back while going past parallel on squats. Ive always felt I had to do it because 'you aint squat till you squat'. I know Dorian Yates preferred to do smith machine squats. I do to because I feel my quads better. But Ive read it can be dangerous because it puts the body in an 'unnatural' position. Any advice/help??

If you want strong legs, squat. If you want big legs, leg press.

The smith machine "unnatural" comment can be applied to virtually every exercise performed on it as it forces you to move the bar in only one plane of motion. But for bodybuilding purposes the smith machine's great, for strength purposes its best avoided

Do squats further down the line with lighter weight.
If you warm upo with leg extention, then Leg Presses, HackSquats by the time you get to squats your legs are fried and you get plenty benefit from the squat with small weights.
And those are Smith Machine squats. I still position my feet pretty much under the bar as i need my butt and hammies to engage. Plenty controll that way.

Jack heard hack squats are a bit harsh on the knees and have had bad experiences with them, is there a safe way of doing them?

I usually place my feet about a dont and half in front of my body which enables me to go low without putting pressure on my knees

Deadgoat wrote: Jack heard hack squats are a bit harsh on the knees and have had bad experiences with them, is there a safe way of doing them?

I usually place my feet about a dont and half in front of my body which enables me to go low without putting pressure on my knees

I have been watching Jay Cutlers training vids. My feet closer together, fairly low down, full range staying in full CONTROLL all the way down to my heels keeping the tension and then back up not locking at the top. Dont try to boost your ego - keep the weight at a managable level. No points for heroics here. Same for shoulders.

Jack. Whats your leg routine look like? Do you think its necessary to seperate hams and quads or is it mostly for advanced trainees or just personal preference?

Jays routine is hectic and i take my hat off to you if you can match each and every set and intensity. There is just no way. I ended up doing 3 or 4 sets of each exercise and lately even found that i need to split hammies off and do them Saturdays(Wed the other leg day) I then add calves and some extensions with feet apart etc. At least i dont feel like puking on Wednesdays - well just a little.

Leg extension warm up, Leg Press, Hack Squat, Leg Extension working sets, Standing calves, seated calves.

Oh yes.... i also like to do leg press with feet close and then some with feet apart toes pointing out. I'll do less sets of something else when i play around like that.

Dead goat,I really don't understand your logic behind "if you want strong legs squat,if you want big legs then leg press" bro 90% body builders squat first exercise and have massive legs,how many dvds do u see where bodybuilders leg press before they squat,squatting is the building block of big thick legs,a strong muscle has the pottential of being a massive muscle,just cos u can load more weight on to a leg press doesn't mean its gonna make your legs bigger...you need to squat for the best leg development.squatting on a smith machine will help you with your form and take some strain off your lower back...

Bro,andrew hudson,marius dohne,dorian yates,dennis wolf,tony freeman are all 6ft and over and all squat,if u are battling to go bellow parrallel u need to squat barefoot for a while to stretch the tendons in the foot,also stretch inbetween sets...

Ja DJ you right i saw the worlds strongest man in 1996 on TV. It was magnus ver Magnusson who won for his 4th time .He deadlifted with bale shoes on as it gives his better balance. When i squat i just do it in my socks and other people look at me and wonder why i am doing this the answer is that it gives me better balance.

I always squatted with wide stance and a low bar position because I was really into powerlifting last year. But now I squat close stance to emphasise my quads more but then I cant keep my back arched all the way down. It sucks because some days I can squat and break parallel easily. Also with more weight on, it kinda pushes me down into the hole and I keep my form better. Like if I squat with 60kg I struggle to get past parallel, but if theres 100kg I squat better. Should I just warm up with 100kg then on squats? I always do leg extensions as my first exercise to warm up my quads and knees.

Talk some nrs on the legg press machine. When can you consider that you are actually pushing a weight worth mentioning. I know its relative to the person doing it but what is a impressive figure:pinch:

DJ I thought it was common knowledge that leg presses are better for hypertrophy and squats are better for overall strength, I could be wrong. Maybe I should delete tnation from my bookmarks

ABC I personally think anything over 300's impressive, maybe that says more about my chicken legs than anything but 300kg is a lot of weight in my eyes

I dont know hey. Leg press isnt that great show of strength to me, because it has mechanical advantage. This equation tells it all if you have a 45 degree leg press for example:
Load x (sin 45) = actual weight moved
So if you load 500kg on the leg press, you actualy only lift 353kg. Still a lot though. But in my opinion a guy squatting 200kg for reps is way more impressive

True but the sled has a certain coefficient of friction lets say 1.2, now 353x1.2 = 424 kg so its pretty close to the stated 500

Jay Cutler has many vids all round. In them he takes you through the days workout and the goals etc.
You will soon see that the numbers are secondary. You think you go down far enough but you really dont; a guy tells you to try lower and you kak your pants.
Try adding some more reps. How about going to 15 reps in stead of 8???? There are many ways to skin a cat. There are more ways and differences in how people grow.
Dont be a follower - test whats best for you.
I see so many young guys get away with shocking form - if i had to attempt some of those manoeuvres i will lie in traction for a month. If they carry on like that they probably would at my age as well.
Cheating on form makes things easier and you are only bullshitting yourself.
There is a guy at gym - loads the donkey-calf with all the weight in the gym. WTF! he has no calves and everybody knows why! Dont be that guy!

I had a great session today - went up to 200 leg-press, 80 hack-squat and 80 Smith machine squats - all close stance. 16 reps +. finished off with some nice slow, squeezing extensions.

Good advice all round there JR.

I'm genetically blessed with big legs, I just walk past a squat rack and they grow to the point where I'm thinking of having one light week and then a heavy leg week.

I also believe squats are what it should be about.

On your question about the hack squats Deadgoat, put your feet forward, fairly clos together and the squat. Go deep and push with your heels as it take a lot of strain off your knees that way.

vega5 wrote: ....On your question about the hack squats Deadgoat, put your feet forward, fairly clos together and the squat. Go deep and push with your heels as it take a lot of strain off your knees that way.

Thing is that there shouldn't be strain on your knees. My feet are right underneath the bar trying to get as close as possible to a normal squat. I go past 90 by far.
Knee strain comes from weakness. Go lighter.

jackrabbit1 wrote:

vega5 wrote: ....On your question about the hack squats Deadgoat, put your feet forward, fairly clos together and the squat. Go deep and push with your heels as it take a lot of strain off your knees that way.

Thing is that there shouldn't be strain on your knees. My feet are right underneath the bar trying to get as close as possible to a normal squat. I go past 90 by far.
Knee strain comes from weakness. Go lighter.

I agree there JR, we go to gym to exercise our muscles and not our egos.

I keep my squats on the lite side and focus on form and i find my core also gets a workout. I put 7.5kg plates under my ankles. Seems to help for overall stability and form. Dont know if its ideal or not.

On the leg press side: what is the correct form? I've read various opinions. I believe that you should not come all the way down till your ankles touch your but. I go somewhere in between 45 to 90 degrees. Less stress on the knee ligaments. Im at a point now where i dont want to go any heavier because i know that while im not on cycle i would not be able to push this weight at all. So i work my way up to where i am now over about 4 sets and then stay there for another 4 sets till the legs are nice and tired. Is this ok or wont it stimulate growth?

ABC01 wrote: ...I put 7.5kg plates under my ankles........

Not ideal according to the king of quads - Tom Platz

ABC01 wrote: ...On the leg press side: what is the correct form? I've read various opinions. I believe that you should not come all the way down till your ankles touch your but. I go somewhere in between 45 to 90 degrees. Less stress on the knee ligaments. ....

Thats correct. Lower back should stay put. As soon as it lifts you are going too far.


I still say that the knees/ligaments need strapping only in certain cases and only on the heaviest of sets.

Platz actually says that deep squat is better on your knees than a 90% squat. If you look at what Jay Cutler does you would agree as well.
Even Dorian Yates did Hacks with his feet at the bottom - thats just about the most stress you will experience but they do it. Why? its safe if you use the correct weight and form.

Interesting read:
''Cutlers quad quiz''

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_1_22/ai_113540553/

i find that squats build the most mass for ur legs .. i personally think everyone likes the press cause u can load it up and pat ur ego on the back. Squats have their place in a workout regardless of the weight . I personally have one day of squats only 15 sets . then have a dead lift day . then a general legs day with hams and quads. I feel this works .. but different horses for different courses ..

Just a quick thanks to Jack and DJ for their tips on squatting on the smith machine, came in very handy today.

Never knew I could go so low without sacrificing numbers, shot guys.

The hack squat machine is still a bit of a conundrum though, tried placing feet close and low, and I couldn't even get to 90.
Tried going wider and higher and I couldn't complete 4 reps with no weights! Think I'll just stick to my tried and trusted exercises

No probs! Have a look here : www.jaycutler.com/swollen_monkey.php?video=27

When i say low it doesnt mean bottom. Guys tend to put their feet in the corners.

There are others - many, and with variation.
Jay Cutlers Undisputed is really great.