New Game Plan

hey guys

Looking for some feedback from the guys that has maybe tried the following approach. It's more of a fasted cardio + training short there after system I want to try from this week on.

Here is what I normally do:

04:00 Strong Coffee with Clen
04:30 Fasted Cardio for 30-45 min depending on how I feel that morning. 3x a week if lucky.
Only Started doing cardio about 2 weeks a go so in total if i have done cardio 5 times it's a lot.

06:15-30 Meal 1
07:45 Pre workout shake + Clen (whey and sometimes a carb source which varies depending on what I'm trainig)
08:15 Weight lifting session
09:30 Post Shake (whey shake and sometimes a carb source which varies depending on what I trained)
10:15 Post workout Meal (Protein and a lot of it and small amount of carbs)
10:30 - 15:00 Fast for 4 plus hours
15:00 Meal 2 (protein and fats with veggies)
17:30 Meal 3 (protein and fats with veggies)
19:00 Snack (mostly nuts)
21:00 Meal 4 (protein and fats) and Betasleep 2 caps.

New Game Plan:

04:00 Strong Coffee with clen and inj yoh.
04:15 Fasted Cardio for 30-45 min definitely 4x a week (will be aiming for Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and every 2nd Saturday.
Saturdays tho will have a complete different schedule for cardio times and eating times obviously.
05:00 Pre workout shake + strong cup of coffee (whey shake maybe with a bit of carbs also depending on what will be trained)
05:30 Weight lifting session
06:30 Post Shake (whey shake and sometimes a carb source which varies depending on what I trained)
07:45 Post workout Meal (Protein and a lot of it and small amount of carbs)
08:00 - 15:00 Fast for 6 plus hours
15:00 Meal 2 (protein and fats with veggies)
17:30 Meal 3 (protein and fats with veggies)
19:00 Snack (mostly nuts)
21:00 Meal 4 (protein and fats) and Betasleep 2 caps.

Now with the new game plan my main concern is not having the energy to workout so close after cardio and feeling burned out.
In the back of my head I almost now this to be the case but On the left side of my brain it says fook it. Try it a week and see.

I already have a 3rd game plan workout but being stubborn and experimental like I like to be I want to see what will happen.

A few things to know the only supps i currently take (otc) is whey Protein and that is it. Apart from multi vits, omegas, legalon, Bi-weekly B12 inj and the betasleep of course.

I am looking at maybe getting a preworkout drink and intra too. But still not sure.

On the AAS side I'm currently on 3x my trt dose and starting tbol Monday.

Weight and bf is unknown as i don't even want to check, all i know is my arms look like road maps and my legs aren't very far behind. Abs are out but still this stubborn fat deposit
under the belly button (reason I'm going the inj yoh route)

Cheat meals are so little or far in between. My current idea of cheating is having more of sugary carb source pre or post workout out and maybe a donut here and there on a weekend but even that
is not interesting me that much anymore. I just want to be a walking fooking road map at the moment.

Yeah, crit and rip away :silly: :lol:

Interesting layout. Wish I was one of those who had the mental strength and physical exertion to do an effective weight training session in the morning

Well let's see how it works. Luckily for me I have always been a morning person, I find it hard again to train late in the day.

Alrighty Fakey, interesting choice of setup. As always disclaimer; everything I say is my educated opinion and not a forceful command. My apologies if I explain something or enquire about something that you already know. I, by no means, mean to belittle or your setup(s).

For the new plan:
1) Okay man ask, do you absolutely need to eat before a lifting session? (I know some people get nauseous) Have you tried lifting fasted?
Doing that cardio before hand, then interrupting your fast will make performance suffer with the weighs. (I realise there is a waiting period, I don't think it'll cut it) The old rule is cardio post weights, and for fasted training I think it's even more important. If you do cardio before hand you exhaust yourself, deplete yourself, and attempt to repair damaged muscle fibres with the protein. What I propose, first do fasted weight training followed by cardio. That way round you can give full intensity on the weights (most important) and then, in a depleted state, burn off any left over glycogen. You will finish leaving wasted, in a satisfied way.

2) You mention a small amount of carbs post WO, are they direct carbs or trace carbs found in your protein source? You'll feel better on "pure" protein and direct carbs. Chicken and rice, egg whites and oats etc. I'm sure you know this but it sounds like there is an emphasis on "small amount of carbs".

3) Don't see a problem with your diet. You're an experienced member, you know what's up.

3) Your new name is "Google Maps".

4) If you do go with route 2 unchanged, then the intra-workout drink will help I am sure. But in the same note you will be loosing other benefits (fat-loss). Pre-workouts can be a lifesaver, especially for this plan: high stim zero calorie.

5) You mention the T-bol. I've been secretly wondering about this for personal use as well during a cut. I dismissed the idea but the fact that you are going through with it makes it more plausible. You reckon it won't hinder your goals?

I am curious why you fast for 6 hours during the days?

I am all for Intermittent Fasting, however that is generally for more than 6 hours and usually you will work it in such a way that at night when you sleep counts towards the hours?

PsyCLown wrote: I am curious why you fast for 6 hours during the days?

I am all for Intermittent Fasting, however that is generally for more than 6 hours and usually you will work it in such a way that at night when you sleep counts towards the hours?

I don't think it's meant to be for IF. That isn't planned protocol, I am guessing that it's just life's schedule.

Hahahaha no need for any disclaimers Furk, your input and opinions are always welcome and actually looked forward to.

I will answer all your q's tomorrow morning early and delay my game plan with a day a two just to get the best out of this. I'm already in bed with the misses and already getting the stare :dry:

@ psyclown that mid day fast is for sleeping and meal prepping mostly, I work crappy hours which will hopefully change next year.

Fakey_AK wrote: @ psyclown that mid day fast is for sleeping and meal prepping mostly, I work crappy hours which will hopefully change next year.

Oh snap man do you work shift work?

Okay here we go

1. I don't have to eat before lifting I guess I just feel like it helps with fueling the workouts, seeing as I don't normally use pre-workout Supplements. But I did purchase one today ( USN 3XT-Pump ) but it does have carbs in, about 10g per serving. But if I should get one with no calories so to speak I will push it off on someone :lol: and get another. I know the rule of the thumb is training then cardio post but thought that normally only counted if your going to do HIIT type of cardio.

The other reason for the change is, is that my current training partner is so to speak done for the year (work and personal stuff related) so I got a new partner but his training time is between 05:20 till 06:20 roughly. And yes I need a partner otherwise I slack a bit and can't go heavy without a spot and asking the whole time can get tedious, not just for me but also the person I have to ask.

Another reason I don't train fasted is because I'm scared of muscle wasting, I have read that taking BCAA's before hand helps with this but you need something like 20 grams or more. Which I think can get expensive then. Please let me know if this is wrong or not.

2. Post workout shake is whey only at the moment but Post workout Meal is chicken and carbs. By small amount I mean something along the lines of 20-30g complex carbs ( rice, sweet potatoe or oats ) I know this is low but trying HFLC and breaking away from full keto with re feeds and so on.

3. Thank you and Thank Again.

4. So if I get a calorie free pre-workout can I stick to fasted cardio then rest a bit drink pre-workout and then continue again and have better fat loss this way without muscle wasting (biggest fear here)

5. By hindering goals, are we talking about weight loss ( fat burning ) You kinda lost me there.


Yeah I currently work shifts. Sucky but money talks.

Holy shit it's 2345 and your waking up at 0400? Take it easy talk tomorrow

Preworkout: That USN 3XT-Pump is full of fructose mate. 20g per serving. USN Hyperdrive will work. Hyperdrive does contain all the tried and tested ingredients, so in theory it should be a decent pre. If you do go for fasted training, take 10g BCAAs soon before starting your session.

Postworkout: In fasted training, the importance of post-workout nutrition is more important because you have less resources to repair muscle. The popular IF method is to slam another 10mg BCAAs, then follow up with a meal as soon as you get the chance. Easier alternative that I do when not in my hometown is a whey shake. But even that is not mandatory, if you have a meal packed and ready, that is better.

Cardio: HIIT training or LISS cardio, after weights. Look I'm not saying you won't be able to handled it and you are not a special snowflake. I am saying you'll under perform, and in a cut performance is the easiest way to assess muscle retention (your biggest fear as you mention). So by not giving 100% when it is due you aren't challenging yourself enough to keep gains.

Training partner: For what lifts do you need a spot? Just bench press? We both know there are ways around this, but your reasons are your own so I'll leave it at that.

Intra-workout: Yeah fat loss, because your fuel is switched to carbs from the drink. If do go: Cardio → Pre-WO → Start lifting → Intra-WO → Continue lifting, you will feel better in the lifting session, but might also crash if the intra is too sugary. Just speaking hypothetically. If you try it and works, good, then we know the intra sustains you well.

Hope it clears things up. Cheers.

@ Furk Okay after reading all that and thinking some more I think I'm gonna go a different route now. Will post new game with new questions as soon as I'm in front of my laptop again. Wanna pick your brain some more.

Oh and I'm open to any suggestions from anyone else too.

Okay game plan revised

Game Plan 2.0:

05:00 Coffee + Clen
06:00 Yoh inj + 10g BCAA's
06:15 Fasted Cardio for 45 minutes
07:00 10g BCAA's ( 1st question, is this serving needed? )

13:00 Meal 1 - Protein, fats and veggies ( break fast )
15:00 Meal 2 - Protein, fats and veggies
17:00 Meal 3 - MRP Shake + Pre-workout
17:30 Weight Training session
18:30 Meal 4 - Post Shake consisting of whey + simple carbs ( haven't had simple carbs post workout with a shake in ages so not sure about this one or if even needed )
19:30 Meal 5 - Protein and complex carbs ( carbs in the range off 20-30 grams again from oats )
21:00 Meal 6 - Whey shake with some sort of fat ( peanut butter or flax oil or ? need input here )

So going this route I will be doing an IF (16 hours fast with 8 hour feeding window) and HFLC combined diet.

Still using betasleep at night.

Another thing will using a sweetener with my coffee like Equal break my fast?

Furk you mentioned something about tboll in a cut, you against this or for this or want to see what it does?

Also toying with the idea of adding EQ.

@Fakey, hope you do not mind me stealing this thread for a second...
Also I am sure Furk wants to see how Tbol works during a cut - whether it hinders the cut or not.


@Furk, would BCAA's not break a fast? Do they not contain calories?

Fakey for me if you still look anything like the pics you posted last time you are extremely lean and my opinion the above won't be enough as your body has already adjusted to this way of dieting. What I would do:

Week 1: Cals to 1200, where most of your food comes from low cal density food like oats and whey to keep you full. Drop all fat burners and cardio but keep weight sessions intense.
Week 2: Keep cals at 1200. Add 5x cardio sessions.
Week 3: Add Clen and Yoh.
Keep going until weight loss stops (maybe another week or so)

Important- you MUST be on anabolics during this period to keep your body to only catabolise fat.

Just a thought. Use it, don't use it.

Hey will spread some words over this thread tomorrow, last exam tomorrow then I'm free for a bit.

BCAAs: They will break the fast, only consume them like 5min prior to lifting. Do not have them before cardio, even without anabolics you won't burn muscle unless you are doing ridiculous shit.

Sweetener: Equal should be fine. BUT it uses lactose as a filler if I'm not mistaken, and that is caloric. So just keep it sensible. I stopped drinking coffee 2 weeks ago for this exact reason, I love my black coffee strong and sweet. I'm on caffeine pills and water now lol FML.

Tbol: I just wanted others' opinion on this as I was also thinking of using it because it makes me feel glorious and swole. But if it's gonna hurt fat loss I'll leave it.

EQ: Gonna drive up the hematocrit level, so if you use it, or regular test at too high dose your cardio will suffer. Thick about your heart passing honey through thin veins, extreme example just for illustration purposes.

Cheers.

Pyroclasm wrote: Fakey for me if you still look anything like the pics you posted last time you are extremely lean and my opinion the above won't be enough as your body has already adjusted to this way of dieting. What I would do:

Week 1: Cals to 1200, where most of your food comes from low cal density food like oats and whey to keep you full. Drop all fat burners and cardio but keep weight sessions intense.
Week 2: Keep cals at 1200. Add 5x cardio sessions.
Week 3: Add Clen and Yoh.
Keep going until weight loss stops (maybe another week or so)

Important- you MUST be on anabolics during this period to keep your body to only catabolise fat.

Just a thought. Use it, don't use it.

I read it and then reread it again. 1200 cals :ohmy: (dit is fooooken min)

I will keep this in mind when I have more or how can I say a stronger AAS cycle to run with this. Currently only on 300mg test cyp bi weekly and 60mg tbol started yesterday. Don't think that is going to be strong enough for that.

I am fairly lean I guess but not where I want to be. Just cant get rid of lower abdominal fat. It's like every year it just gets harder and harder. Damn age.

@ Furk noted on the BCAA's and sweetener. Also will drop the EQ idea then. Any specific caffeine pills you on?

Just went for Biogen Caffeine, 100mg caps. Does the trick.

Arm Selfie :lol:

Fuuuaar! Check out those contours on the forearm! Sick Delt vein too! Dude why the hell do you want to cut further, this means you are already dialed in low.

Thanx Fuuuuurk!

The thing is I want to compete next year and I want to know my body over and over. Want to know exactly what I need to do and time frame wise to get there. This is more of an experimentation for me. It's like one big learning curve and I want to soak up as much knowledge from everyone so long as I can too.

I don't really have cash for a coach or lots of AAS so this is me doing as much as possible to help myself and anyone else who is sitting in the same boat as me. Because in this industry everything is one big secret from this competitor to that one. Some will help but only to a certain extend and then they want something in return.

Plus also want to see how far I can get before throwing in heavy AAS and so on.

Then there are the areas that I'm still struggling to rip up, like quads, lower back, glutes and lower abs, just below belly button. So the cut continues

And also just want to Thank everyone who has helped me so far with advice and input. After all I'm still a Rookie compared to some Slabs of Meat on this Forum.