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vitargo
- ice-rip
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the claim is that it empties the gut 80% faster and no bloat etc.
who has used it and is it really worth it. i am looking at the sps vitargo
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- spike
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Um, but im scared of needles...
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- ice-rip
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- vega5
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Around 60g would be sweet. I'm personally happy with Energade. Dextrose doesn't graft that lekker with my system so I had to look for an alternative.ice-rip wrote: spike for an oke of my weight at 106kg how much would i need pwo
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- Deadgoat
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ice-rip wrote: how about if i take 20g and have a meal conraining carbs for 40g an hour later
not sure if an hour later still counts as pwo, I think the window closes after 20 min. So ideally you'd like to replenish glycogen levels in your muscle with 60g of simple carbs before your body resorts to using protein instead
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- vega5
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- jackrabbit1
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- spike
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Thats why we use the simple sugars post workout, dextrose being one of the easiest and cheapest. I usually take 60g of dextrose (proven to effectively spike insulin levels) and 50g of whey (to provide those necessary amino's post workout). BCAA's can also be used here due to their simplification and quick absorbtion.
If i dont happen to have dextrose i just have a 500ml coke, as this has approx the same amount of sugars (+-60g).
Um, but im scared of needles...
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- ice-rip
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so you would have this carb meal after your pwo shake even if its 9pm.
and spike when u say dextrose do u mean the glucose u buy in a pharmacy
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- Fakey_AK
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ice-rip wrote: great advice there guys
so you would have this carb meal after your pwo shake even if its 9pm.
and spike when u say dextrose do u mean the glucose u buy in a pharmacy
Dextrose - glucose, basicly the samething
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- Fakey_AK
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ice-rip wrote: yeah but where r u getting pure glucose/dext from
www.basicsupplements.co.za
Plus that dextrose is alot cheaper compared to dischems glucose.
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- ice-rip
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vitargo is the absolute bomb for pwo. absolutely no bloat and it kicks dextrose ass for recovery. i am now using 40g of vitargo now in my pwo shake. before i bloat up terribly with just 10grams of dextrose. it is pricey though but for me wort every cent
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- STUARTF
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jackrabbit1 wrote: Energade is cheap, nice ice cold and effective.
JR, do you use the Energade Mega Load or just the regular concentrate?
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- vega5
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Mega load is just double concentrated so you basically use half of what you would have with the normal one. I just use the normal one because the Mega Load is a marketing stunt.STUARTF wrote:
jackrabbit1 wrote: Energade is cheap, nice ice cold and effective.
JR, do you use the Energade Mega Load or just the regular concentrate?
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- ice-rip
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whilst the vitargo is far superior imo to dextrose in regards to recovery and bloating, i do notice that having large servings of vitargo (40grams) at around 9pm blunts fat loss.
i have been doing some research and am coming to the conclusion that this whole insulin spike thing pwo is just supplement companies trying to sell product. i want to compare vitargo now which i still believe is better than dextrose to oats pwo. also the sites i have searched on state that high insulin levels do nothing for protein synthesis and actually blunt gh especially when its so close to bedtime.
i mean arnold and the likes never had vitargo and hydrolysed whey etc and they grew like houses. think im gonna save my money and do things the old fashion way and thats eat whole food pwo as carbs source. will still keep the isopro though and maybe use the vitargo when i train in the morning to finish it off
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"Do or do not, there is no try" - Yoda
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- Mr_SA
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I have been checking what i spend on supplements, food etc etc lately, and WOW!! Couldnt actually believe the amount.
The problem is every time you go to dischem... you think "Well, its only R70 for this Multivitamin, R200 for these fish oils, R80 for Vit C tabs etc etc etc", and when you get to the till... BANG, it hits you how much you've spent.
Give it a shot, you're only TESTing it...
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- Empire
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ice-rip wrote: just some more feedback on the vitargo.
whilst the vitargo is far superior imo to dextrose in regards to recovery and bloating, i do notice that having large servings of vitargo (40grams) at around 9pm blunts fat loss.
i have been doing some research and am coming to the conclusion that this whole insulin spike thing pwo is just supplement companies trying to sell product. i want to compare vitargo now which i still believe is better than dextrose to oats pwo. also the sites i have searched on state that high insulin levels do nothing for protein synthesis and actually blunt gh especially when its so close to bedtime.
i mean arnold and the likes never had vitargo and hydrolysed whey etc and they grew like houses. think im gonna save my money and do things the old fashion way and thats eat whole food pwo as carbs source. will still keep the isopro though and maybe use the vitargo when i train in the morning to finish it off
have u also seen the amount of gear they used and training and all the rest year round etc...
i think alot of your fat loss issue with using high gi things could be a case of the rest of the diet not being 100% metabolic slow down,insulin insensitivity, and whole load of factors...at the end of the day if u are taking in the right calories intake for fat loss then 40g of simple carbs shouldnt effect fat loss at all...yes u do want insulin levels to be low when dieting...but i know loads of guys that still use simple carbs right up to 6 days out of the show and come in shredded...its like u say that u are not going to burn fat if eating 2000 calories to maintain,u drop that to 1500 calories a day,and u have only carb u have in a day are simple carbs post work out wont make u shredded? thats not how it works bud.... i think u need to adjust the rest of the things in the diet and see where u are going wrong,200calories of carbs isnt gonna stop fat loss unless your diet,cardio or training isnt on point....
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- ice-rip
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i mean i followed most of the diet recommendations so my diet looks pretty good with only oats and brown rice as carb sources, olive oil, natural peanut butter and omega 3 fish oils and almonds as fat sources. protein only comes in the form of fillets, hake, and seldom steak.
i was eating 330g protein/day
160g carbs/ day
75g fat / day
2 days ago i dropped the protein down to 1g/pound of bodyweight which is around 230. i thought that by dropping the 100g of protein i would speed up my fat loss due to the 400 calories deficit and the 1gram per 1 pound weight rule would be sufficient to maintain muscle mass
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- ice-rip
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Post-exercise insulin spiking has become standard practice in bodybuilding because of the perpetuation of hearsay, nothing more. It's a case of bro see, bro do - no critical thought, no questioning of why. As a result, many people believe that unless you consume a fast-acting liquid mix of [insert the latest hyped quickie carb & protein source], you won't achieve the walloping insulin spike supposedly necessary for recovery. But here's what everyone misses or chooses to ignore: the nutrient-mediated insulin elevation from food required to max out net anabolism is relatively minor. Insulin's ability to prevent muscle protein breakdown (even in the midst of ample amino acid availability via continuous infusion) is maximal at about 3-4 times the normal basal levels of insulin.
To reiterate, insulin's suppression of protein breakdown is maximal with modest elevations; even less than what's seen during normal feeding. As a matter of fact, a properly placed pre-exercise meal will keep insulin sufficiently elevated even after your training bout is over. To put things into perspective, a regular solid meal can elevate insulin anywhere from 4-8 times fasting levels depending on size, and keep it elevated for a few hours. As little as 6 g of essential amino acids plus 35 g sucrose taken immediately pre-exercise can keep insulin elevated to roughly 4 times fasting levels 1 hour after 40-50 minutes of resistance training. What do you think insulin levels would look like with a typical preworkout meal or shake containing at least as much carbs & double the protein?
Another little-known fact is that amino acids can stimulate protein synthesis without any additional insulin output beyond that caused on their own. I'm gonna assume at this point that everyone has some protein pre & postworkout, so this is yet another reason to nix the dex or WMS & go for a more nutritious carb source whenever possible.
As for the urgency of glycogen replenishment, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day, you have nothing to worry about. Typical weight training workouts are not glycogen-depleting. Not that this is of any concern in the first place for folks who don't skip their preworkout meal. Your preworkout carbs are being absorbed and put to use during the training bout, and in many cases, you're still absorbing your preworkout carbs even after the training bout is done. Even in the event of total glycogen depletion, complete resynthesis will occur within 24 hrs regardless of the presence of other macros ingested postworkout. This eliminates any urgent need for special lightning-fast carbs postworkout. Furthermore, those thinking the insulin spike is going to suddenly hurry up glycogen resynthesis are wrong because the first 30-60 minutes of glycogenesis is not an insulin-dependent process.
Again, the origin of the recommendation for quick carbs & insulin spiking for recovery is based on studies that were done on folks who trained to glycogen depletion (1.5-2 hrs continuous endurance work on the quads) in an overnight fasted state. This is an irrelevant, far-fetched scenario for most of us.
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