Sleepless nights - help...

So ever since ive been on my tren cycle, i've been having sleepless nights. I have dormicum which I take 2 every night. It helps me fall off to sleep quite nicely but within a few hours, my sleep tends to break, fall off to sleep after about 30 mins, then sleep breaks again after 2 hours or so. Quite annoying really.

Can anyone recommend any replacement for dormicum that'll knock me out solid for the night? Ive been trying to get remeron but nobody seems to have stock.

Zolpidem works for me

Best thing I could've ever gotten for my sleep is a wife,she starts talking in bed and I go right off to sleep...

This is gonna sound really crazy, but sugar before bed,it does depend on your dieting plan but a fat free high sugar brownie or fat free slice of cake will put u right off to bed,give it a try,the spiking of insulin and the dropping of blood sugar can enduce a decent nights sleep.

How ever this may not help with tren insomnia but its worth while trying.

DJ wrote: Best thing I could've ever gotten for my sleep is a wife,she starts talking in bed and I go right off to sleep...

This is gonna sound really crazy, but sugar before bed,it does depend on your dieting plan but a fat free high sugar brownie or fat free slice of cake will put u right off to bed,give it a try,the spiking of insulin and the dropping of blood sugar can enduce a decent nights sleep.

loll will give that a shot...and the zolpidem as well. Hows the waking up with zolpidem? any shitty feeling?

Sleeping tabs mainly, but they only work for so long before they become ineffective.

Aqueel wrote:

DJ wrote: Best thing I could've ever gotten for my sleep is a wife,she starts talking in bed and I go right off to sleep...

This is gonna sound really crazy, but sugar before bed,it does depend on your dieting plan but a fat free high sugar brownie or fat free slice of cake will put u right off to bed,give it a try,the spiking of insulin and the dropping of blood sugar can enduce a decent nights sleep.

loll will give that a shot...and the zolpidem as well. Hows the waking up with zolpidem? any shitty feeling?

I like Zolpidem because it has a short half life and you wake up after 7/8 hrs feeling refreshed-no lingering grogginess.

But have to agree with Pump-you use it for any length of time and you quickly build up a resistance-I wouldn't use them more than three x per week well spaced out

Have you tried ZMA and GABBA? worked for me dont know if it will help cronic insomnia but help me get decent deep sleep where a night feels like a 5min sleep

Last year when I competed tren did that to me as well, best combo was Zolpidem preceded by Alzam 0.5mg it calms the mind, relaxes the muscles then Zolpidem knocks you out. Also 5g GABA just before dosing off ensures you stay asleep.

Thanks guys. Will give these a shot! Can i get GABA from dischem?

Sorry for going off topic but since you are on tren how are you finding the sides(besides the lack of sleep) aqueel? I'm considering tren for a cycle, but at the moment the sides (especially the prolacting and thyroid) is putting me off. Trying to do some research on it, seems a bit heavy though!

pr0gr3s1v3 wrote: Sorry for going off topic but since you are on tren how are you finding the sides(besides the lack of sleep) aqueel? I'm considering tren for a cycle, but at the moment the sides (especially the prolacting and thyroid) is putting me off. Trying to do some research on it, seems a bit heavy though!

So far for me the worst side effect has been the sleepless nights. Other than that, a little bit of pimples on my chest and some itchy nipples here n there. Im also using proviron ED so I guess thats keeping the gyno from flaring up too much.

Glad to hear! So you are not using any prolacting lowering drugs? Bromo I think?

nope, nothing at the moment if theres anything that flares up the i have quick access to maybe letro or armidex

Correct me if I'm wrong (still trying to figure this all out myself) but tren does not aromatize meening that the gyno that one can get from tren Is from progesterone. From this I gather that a normal AI will not work to treat the gyno, one would have to use bromo or the likes?

pr0gr3s1v3 wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong (still trying to figure this all out myself) but tren does not aromatize meening that the gyno that one can get from tren Is from progesterone. From this I gather that a normal AI will not work to treat the gyno, one would have to use bromo or the likes?

Thats correct from what I understand. Letrozole can also be used...I could be wrong tho. Maybe one of the more experienced can comment?

I'm assuming you're using test with the tren-its important to keep estrogen in check when using 19 nor tests like tren but if the gyno is prolactin based from the tren letro or any ai will do nothing-you need an anti prolactin-either bromocriptine, prami or caber.

If you're already starting with the gyno its important to get caber or bromo asap.

You can try squeeze the nipples and see if there is any discharge as this is definitive of prolactin, but even if there no lactation it doesn't mean its not prolactin gyno as progesterone from a 19 nor test can suppress lactation

Lay out your cycle and doses

Yohimbe wrote: I'm assuming you're using test with the tren-its important to keep estrogen in check when using 19 nor tests like tren but if the gyno is prolactin based from the tren letro or any ai will do nothing-you need an anti prolactin-either bromocriptine, prami or caber.

If you're already starting with the gyno its important to get caber or bromo asap.

You can try squeeze the nipples and see if there is any discharge as this is definitive of prolactin, but even if there no lactation it doesn't mean its not prolactin gyno as progesterone from a 19 nor test can suppress lactation

Lay out your cycle and doses

I've had a little bit of gyno from previously, last year or so but so far, 5 weeks into this cycle its never gotten worse. Its not very noticeable. Cycle is as follows:

2ml x Tren-e (PGW) per week (mon/thurs split)
2ml x equi (PGW) per week (mon/thurs split)
2ml x supertest (PGW) per week (mon/thurs split)
75mg Proviron ED

Are you running an anti e?

I have Kessar on hand

Start the kessar to drop the estrogen absorption, but you need an anti e.

You need to get adex, aromasin or letro.
Important to control the estrogen as the prolactin levels are related to estrogen, but you also need to get bromocriptine or caber as an anti prolactin.

Prolactin gyno is usually a small lump behind the nipple.
Has the gyno got any worse and describe the gyno

Ok thanks! will start asap. It hasnt gotten any worse. its just a bit of a lump, i would say around the nipple. Underneath the areola

Nolvadex and tren are a no go it will only aggravate the gyno, rather Letro and 1mg cabaser per week till it subsides then 0.5mg

There are some studies that show nolva can increase the progesterone receptors and since 19 nor tests occupy the progesterone receptor, this is were the nolva and 19 nor test don't go together comes from.

The gyno from 19 nor test is from prolactin not progesterone, while tren does bind strongly to the progesterone receptor it will only be a problem in the presence of estrogen.

Nolva will lower estrogen absorption and reduce estrogen which effectively negates the progesterone effect of (possible) increase in receptors.

There is a definite link between prolactin levels and estrogen and studies that show tamoxifen will reduce prolactin levels
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/1097...E3.0.CO;2-A/abstract

If you are going to try stop the progesterone levels, bromo, caber or prami will do nothing as they reduce prolactin. You would need to run Mifepristone (RU-486)

End of the day you need to reduce estrogen levels immediately to counter, obviously estrogen gyno, and reduce chances of prolactin gyno
To stop the estrogen conversion you need an anti e and for the prolactin you need caber, bromo or prami.

Prolactin gyno is a solid lump behind the nipple, the gyno you are describing sounds like estrogen gyno.

IMO, i would start the kessar immediately to stop the absorption of estrogen from the test and get an anti e-letro in your case and an anti prolactin caber or bromo

im going through one now