Conflicting advice...

Hey guys,

The conflicting advice on PCT is doing my head in, please help me out.

I’m about to finish my second 12 week cycle (Sust 250 and Deca 300 @ 1ml each x2 week) and my PT is recommending I start PCT directly after with a single Ovigil 5000 injection followed by 20mg Tamoxifen for 30 days.

This site seems to suggest otherwise... please share your experience/guidance.

Also, how long should I wait to get bloods done? 3 months?

Cheers!

Welcome Gorillaz.

If you ask 10 people about PCT you will get 10 different protocols, most will work fine. Some work better than others and I find Doctari's protocol pretty effective and he has the data to back it up. Using HCG during the latter stages of a cycle instead of during PCT is perhaps the only change I recommend in some cases, but the vast majority of people that follow the protocols here recover perfectly fine: www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/articles/9-post-cycle-therapy

Follow the advice you believe in and do your own research as well.

Gorillaz wrote: Hey guys,

The conflicting advice on PCT is doing my head in, please help me out.

I’m about to finish my second 12 week cycle (Sust 250 and Deca 300 @ 1ml each x2 week) and my PT is recommending I start PCT directly after with a single Ovigil 5000 injection followed by 20mg Tamoxifen for 30 days.

This site seems to suggest otherwise... please share your experience/guidance.

Also, how long should I wait to get bloods done? 3 months?

Cheers!

Our PCT was developed by a medical doctor who has also specialised in sports medicine and competed in bodybuilding, as well as treated plenty of steroid users who need to recover fertility. After deca HCG is extremely beneficial to recovery, and one 5000 iu shot for the vast majority won't be as effective as a series of lower dose shots.

But the deca must be almost completely out of your system when you start PCT for maximum effect on recovery. With 600mg deca/week you need at least 6 - 7 weeks wait after last deca shot.

I do believe that HCG should be used during cycle at extremely low doses as you need intratesticular testosterone to keep fertility. The longer your cycle (even with low doses) is more damaging than a balls to the wall short cycle when it comes to recovery. Also nailing your e2 blood work is vital for recovery hence an AI must be included or else it becomes challenging to ascertain where you at if only focusing on SERMS. You can use other AIs, yes there is known interactions with SERMs and Arimidex but it was 14 or 16 percent so its simple just to increase the dose based on bloodwork. I think the PCT on here is a great minimal required PCT to use. It is nowhere near long enough for me to recover, I need to extend it for over 3 months. Also just watch the clomid and deca combination but if you waiting out the half lives of Deca you won't have an issue with that.

PCT has no exact length, you have recovery at 97 percent after a year and 100 percent after 2. Sometimes depending on the person you need 4 to 6 months maybe longer. But these are edge cases from long term steroid use. Only blood tests and sperm analysis will ensure you have ticked all the boxes. If you not worried about children then you just need to ensure you have a decent amount of free and total testosterone..

Thanks, Admin.

I’m going to follow PCT No 2 after 54 days. Makes sense and I reckon I should trust this site over my PT. ????

PCT 3

Lol. Ok, I re-read your response and get it. PCT 3 it is. Thanks, 00Pump.

When should I do my blood/ sperm tests? And how do I go about this? Can’t imagine my GP is going to be ok with it...

Thank you, MuscleAddict. Really helpful.

Gorillaz wrote: Lol. Ok, I re-read your response and get it. PCT 3 it is. Thanks, 00Pump.

When should I do my blood/ sperm tests? And how do I go about this? Can’t imagine my GP is going to be ok with it...

This is purely dependent on how much money you willing to spend. If you run PCT 3 I would check it at the end to know if I need to extend it. If it looks OK you might need to look at it a couple weeks afterwards too, to ensure it has not dipped. If you never started steroids at a very young age and messed up your soft wiring or have run very long cycles and have faith that PCT 3 has worked then you can wait and do it a few weeks after PCT. The younger you are and if you have had long breaks between cycles you will recovery allot quicker than someone who is older and has used steroids for a long period of time. The sperm development cycle is around 74 days so I wouldn't test that for at least that period. However if your bloods come back with low then I wouldn't waste money on it and extend PCT until recovered. Just know that LH and FSH will show much higher readings while on PCT than that of when you discontinue all PCT meds.

You’re a legend. Awesome guidance. I’m 47 and did my first cycle a year ago. Learning nothing beats experience... but I’m taking it slow and steady. Will do some research on the blood tests now... thanks mate!

47?

What levels of T/free T are you expecting to get back to after blasting anabolics?
Clomiphene would be your best option if you were adamant to not use therapeutic testosterone.

It is possible you are an outlier, but unless your levels truly bounce back to the upper end of normal, why not consider TRT?

@ 47 i would just use TRT and have myself checked out once a year.

Isnt Deca detectable for like 18 months and you have to wait loooooooong for it to clear before you pct?

you can have a deca metabolite in your system, most likely stored in fat cells somewhere down the line, but you wont have any active effective dosing in the system. So you may fail a drug test, but if they checked blood for concentration there would be nothing.

Oupa wrote: @ 47 i would just use TRT and have myself checked out once a year.

Thanks, Oupa and MPhilosopher... will look into this option. Feels like a big decision tbh. Can you still do cycles while on TRT?

Gorillaz wrote:

Oupa wrote: @ 47 i would just use TRT and have myself checked out once a year.

Thanks, Oupa and MPhilosopher... will look into this option. Feels like a big decision tbh. Can you still do cycles while on TRT?

Yes of course and it is arguably safer.

However should a man after 47 be using large amounts of anabolics? Probably not

It is safer in the context that you can throw in "synthetic DHT" like mesterolone almost permanently, or cycle some oxandrolone or whatever you please without risking shutdown as someone that is not on TRT.

You will have a constant supply of test and will have no risk shutting it off, so once the cycle ends you will have suitable test levels immediately after the cycle.

MPhilosopher wrote:

Gorillaz wrote:

Oupa wrote: @ 47 i would just use TRT and have myself checked out once a year.

Thanks, Oupa and MPhilosopher... will look into this option. Feels like a big decision tbh. Can you still do cycles while on TRT?

Yes of course and it is arguably safer.

However should a man after 47 be using large amounts of anabolics? Probably not

It is safer in the context that you can throw in "synthetic DHT" like mesterolone almost permanently, or cycle some oxandrolone or whatever you please without risking shutdown as someone that is not on TRT.

You will have a constant supply of test and will have no risk shutting it off, so once the cycle ends you will have suitable test levels immediately after the cycle.

This does not mean physiologically you will feel great from cycle doses to trt dose, it will still take time for the body to adjust to 'normal levels' sex drive will not be 'hyper'. The best thing would have been blood tests prior to doing a cycle and if your levels looked good at 47 then you shouldn't have an issue with recovery and could put TRT off for a couple years which makes life much easier, however having no blood results before makes it difficult to accurately state whether TRT should be an option or not.

00pump wrote:

MPhilosopher wrote:

Gorillaz wrote:

Oupa wrote: @ 47 i would just use TRT and have myself checked out once a year.

Thanks, Oupa and MPhilosopher... will look into this option. Feels like a big decision tbh. Can you still do cycles while on TRT?

Yes of course and it is arguably safer.

However should a man after 47 be using large amounts of anabolics? Probably not

It is safer in the context that you can throw in "synthetic DHT" like mesterolone almost permanently, or cycle some oxandrolone or whatever you please without risking shutdown as someone that is not on TRT.

You will have a constant supply of test and will have no risk shutting it off, so once the cycle ends you will have suitable test levels immediately after the cycle.

This does not mean physiologically you will feel great from cycle doses to trt dose. The best thing would have been blood tests prior to doing a cycle and if your levels looked good at 47 then you shouldn't have an issue with recovery and could put TRT off for a couple years which makes life much easier, however having no blood results before makes it difficult to accurately state whether TRT should be an option or not.

Yep for sure. I did tell him he may be an outlier, but it would be just that, an outlier. I don't think he should use an anabolic without at least understanding he may never get reasonable levels back.... or his levels right now may not even be ideal.
Every man should be at the upper range of normal, especially free T. I can't see an argument against this unless you want to be fertile at 47?

MPhilosopher wrote:

00pump wrote:

MPhilosopher wrote:

Gorillaz wrote:

Oupa wrote: @ 47 i would just use TRT and have myself checked out once a year.

Thanks, Oupa and MPhilosopher... will look into this option. Feels like a big decision tbh. Can you still do cycles while on TRT?

Yes of course and it is arguably safer.

However should a man after 47 be using large amounts of anabolics? Probably not

It is safer in the context that you can throw in "synthetic DHT" like mesterolone almost permanently, or cycle some oxandrolone or whatever you please without risking shutdown as someone that is not on TRT.

You will have a constant supply of test and will have no risk shutting it off, so once the cycle ends you will have suitable test levels immediately after the cycle.

This does not mean physiologically you will feel great from cycle doses to trt dose. The best thing would have been blood tests prior to doing a cycle and if your levels looked good at 47 then you shouldn't have an issue with recovery and could put TRT off for a couple years which makes life much easier, however having no blood results before makes it difficult to accurately state whether TRT should be an option or not.

Yep for sure. I did tell him he may be an outlier, but it would be just that, an outlier. I don't think he should use an anabolic without at least understanding he may never get reasonable levels back.... or his levels right now may not even be ideal.
Every man should be at the upper range of normal, especially free T. I can't see an argument against this unless you want to be fertile at 47?

Great food for thought, gents. Thanks for sharing your experience and insights... I wish I’d found this site before I started. Nope, not concerned with my fertility, nor do I want to blow out on crazy cycles.

Sounds like I need to see a doc after this cycle and discuss my options. Are we allowed to share recommendations for medical professionals on here? I’d prefer to see someone who is not old fashioned in their thinking... I’ve searched online and only found one option (the TC)...

You have to get a "house" doctor that approves of you using steroids. Not stupid shit cycles, but controlled by experts.

There is 4/5 in town Docs that will support this. So when you do blood tests, and there is Test inbalance, he/she doesnt shit themselves, but understands the process.

If you can get the above, you would simpify your stress levels of being on steroids by 90%.