How old were you when you did you first cycle?

00pump wrote: AvR, true, but and I could have carried on pushing it but, I would have landed up dead. I would love to know the stats and truth of how many top atheletes who cycle year round, what health issues, and how many have a clear bill of health? Have you seen the decrease in size of all atheletes when they stop competeing, why did they stop competing? Why do they want to lose size? My thoughts is their bodies give up and then they need to rather have long breaks in between cycles and because of this they cant keep near the same muscle mass.

Interesting, I don't know much on the topic of what the professional athletes use and for how long they use it but I think it is not worth your health to stay on permanently in the long run. I would never do it. There is a guy at my gym (he also has a supplement shop in the gym), who trains the same time in the morning as I do. I have to be honest, he looks really well. He took 2nd place at Carnival city the other day, can't remember the competition's name.

When I asked him about my cycle and PCT, he suggested that I should start PCT directly after my cycle and that I could start my next cycle 5 weeks after my last shot of test. Don’t know why one would even do a PCT when doing it this way anyway. I would never take his advice of course and stick to the recommended guides of tome on + PCT = time off. But like I said, the guy looks great.

How long would it take to get into reasonable shape following the recommended guide lines for using steroids vs natural vs doing it the wrong way (staying on almost permanently). How many kg can one expect in lets say a year. I know diet is also important but let's say that's sorted.

Sorry if I’m going slightly off subject, maybe this needs to be a new thread?

Start a new thread and we will be happy to advise...

Will start my cycle in Feb so will still be 20 then.

@00pump did you ever manage to step on stage and compete whilst you were at your biggest? You're probably still in great shape ever consider doing one last season of shows? Marius also had some major kidney issues and managed to find a way to work around that

@AvR, year round cycles aren't worth it coz the longer you stay on the higher you have to raise doses (law of diminishing returns) and the more sides you'll get.

Say if you started a year long cycle of test C 500mg/week. You'll usually pick up about 8kg in 12 weeks, but gains usually slow down after about week 8-9. So if you stay on 500mg for the 9 more months you'll probably only pick up another 5-7kg, that's about 13-16kg total for the year

If you choose to increase dose by 250mg as gains slow down say every 8-12 weeks, by the end of the year you'll be running 1-1.5g week! You probably would-ve picked up a little more than you would've with a constant 500mg, but not by a lot maybe 20-22kg total for the year.

Its very attractive if you wanna be a pro in a very short period of time, but your health will certainly suffer and for your next cycle you have to start off with at least 1.5g of test and keep raising it. Is this sustainable? Nope. Is it worth it? Ask the pros


EDIT: will quote that last bit into the new thread if its started

Deadgoat wrote: Will start my cycle in Feb so will still be 20 then.

@00pump did you ever manage to step on stage and compete whilst you were at your biggest? You're probably still in great shape ever consider doing one last season of shows? Marius also had some major kidney issues and managed to find a way to work around that

@AvR, year round cycles aren't worth it coz the longer you stay on the higher you have to raise doses (law of diminishing returns) and the more sides you'll get.

Say if you started a year long cycle of test C 500mg/week. You'll usually pick up about 8kg in 12 weeks, but gains usually slow down after about week 8-9. So if you stay on 500mg for the 9 more months you'll probably only pick up another 5-7kg, that's about 13-16kg total for the year

If you choose to increase dose by 250mg as gains slow down say every 8-12 weeks, by the end of the year you'll be running 1-1.5g week! You probably would-ve picked up a little more than you would've with a constant 500mg, but not by a lot maybe 20-22kg total for the year.

Its very attractive if you wanna be a pro in a very short period of time, but your health will certainly suffer and for your next cycle you have to start off with at least 1.5g of test and keep raising it. Is this sustainable? Nope. Is it worth it? Ask the pros


EDIT: will quote that last bit into the new thread if its started

Hey no dude, i'm small... damaged knees, can't train legs properly, my whole body is a mess.. I was training with the guys from Muscle Worx in the UK and was going to do a show there when i was 24, but never made it that far... Wanted to come in at 115kgs, at that time I was 122kgs at around 10% bodyfat, so an extra year on that, I should have been able to reach my goal.

Damn that must've sucked hard, did you get into BB/cycling on your own or did you have a mentor? I suppose that makes one appreciate the amount of sacrifice the pros have had to make physically. Its surprising that no former Olympia has died from complications started by steroid abuse, Arnie's in his late 60s now and still going strong.

Well he did have heart surgery, ofcourse, everyone will say it was due to a genetic flaw he was born with..

Hmm, no a friend was SA Champ (heavyweight) so I got into it by admiring how he looked.

Deadgoat wrote: Damn that must've sucked hard, did you get into BB/cycling on your own or did you have a mentor? I suppose that makes one appreciate the amount of sacrifice the pros have had to make physically. Its surprising that no former Olympia has died from complications started by steroid abuse, Arnie's in his late 60s now and still going strong.

Checkout this series - think there are 4. In here Flex Wheeler says that they got to the Pro's virtually chemical free. Now thats serious genetics. Then adding a little here and there to "enhance".

mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-intervie...r-and-shawn-ray.html

Genetics? Flex wheeler naturally placed 7th at the 2002 Olympia - Thats why they dont have problems.... they hardly used anything. I can believe that. Lee priest said the same - on cycle used a little test and deca.

18. But don't think Nomad Labs count

30 years old now and busy with my first proper cycle, while the tridenosen and test boosters worked well got nothing on cyp.. Up almost 10 kgs strength is amazing could swear the word plateu doesn't exist...

jackrabbit1 wrote: Checkout this series - think there are 4. In here Flex Wheeler says that they got to the Pro's virtually chemical free. Now thats serious genetics. Then adding a little here and there to "enhance".

mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-intervie...r-and-shawn-ray.html

Genetics? Flex wheeler naturally placed 7th at the 2002 Olympia - Thats why they dont have problems.... they hardly used anything. I can believe that. Lee priest said the same - on cycle used a little test and deca.

www.yout.ube.com/watch?v=0L5BjZYtvZI

Thats a fantastic MD interview, Priest basically told me what Flex said in that interview that pros were always going to be pros, thats how freaky their genetics are. I dunno about most pros hardly using anything, you telling me that guys like Ronnie and Marcus Ruhl didn't take insane doses to get to the level that they were?

@DG totally agree with you, genetics has a role to play but test, and in pretty large amounts, has gotten them there quicker. Obviously amount of food consumed (good clean food) does contribute.

Deadgoat wrote:

jackrabbit1 wrote: Checkout this series - think there are 4. In here Flex Wheeler says that they got to the Pro's virtually chemical free. Now thats serious genetics. Then adding a little here and there to "enhance".

mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-intervie...r-and-shawn-ray.html

Genetics? Flex wheeler naturally placed 7th at the 2002 Olympia - Thats why they dont have problems.... they hardly used anything. I can believe that. Lee priest said the same - on cycle used a little test and deca.

www.yout.ube.com/watch?v=0L5BjZYtvZI

Thats a fantastic MD interview, Priest basically told me what Flex said in that interview that pros were always going to be pros, thats how freaky their genetics are. I dunno about most pros hardly using anything, you telling me that guys like Ronnie and Marcus Ruhl didn't take insane doses to get to the level that they were?

No i dont say they didnt use at all, they used wisely. In that same interview Ronnie says exactly that. He couldnt understand what Flex and Shawn were doing to make them so successfull so he asked his buddy Flex who then put him on the right "course" - if you read between the lines. Shawn even joked around and blamed Flex for doing this since after that he had to retire.
But the fact that they were already at Pro level with minimum chemicals is the point. Heck i know a couple of guys who look pretty good natural who could easily compete naturally and do really well.

Deadgoat wrote:

jackrabbit1 wrote: Checkout this series - think there are 4. In here Flex Wheeler says that they got to the Pro's virtually chemical free. Now thats serious genetics. Then adding a little here and there to "enhance".

mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-intervie...r-and-shawn-ray.html

Genetics? Flex wheeler naturally placed 7th at the 2002 Olympia - Thats why they dont have problems.... they hardly used anything. I can believe that. Lee priest said the same - on cycle used a little test and deca.

www.yout.ube.com/watch?v=0L5BjZYtvZI

Thats a fantastic MD interview, Priest basically told me what Flex said in that interview that pros were always going to be pros, thats how freaky their genetics are. I dunno about most pros hardly using anything, you telling me that guys like Ronnie and Marcus Ruhl didn't take insane doses to get to the level that they were?

Deadgoat, you know that Lee Priest quoted your conversation in the muscle evolution right?

jackrabbit1 wrote: No i dont say they didnt use at all, they used wisely. In that same interview Ronnie says exactly that. He couldnt understand what Flex and Shawn were doing to make them so successfull so he asked his buddy Flex who then put him on the right "course" - if you read between the lines. Shawn even joked around and blamed Flex for doing this since after that he had to retire.
But the fact that they were already at Pro level with minimum chemicals is the point. Heck i know a couple of guys who look pretty good natural who could easily compete naturally and do really well.

Yeah there are some freaks out there, know of a few myself. If I didn't know them so well I'd swear they've been juicing for years

Thunderbeast wrote: Deadgoat, you know that Lee Priest quoted your conversation in the muscle evolution right?

Seriously? which edition? You mind quoting it for me as I dont buy ME anymore

Whilst I agree that the Pro's have fantastic Genetics I really do not believe they are mostly chemical free unless they do not classify all the Peptides and Hormones as Chemicals.

Koe007 wrote: Whilst I agree that the Pro's have fantastic Genetics I really do not believe they are mostly chemical free unless they do not classify all the Peptides and Hormones as Chemicals.

Koe007 i dont know about that. Flex goes on record in that round table as being drug free(3 years and after a Kidney transplant) at the 2002 Olympia and he still placed 7th.

He also chats about his early days when he was really poor. "Living on Tuna Fish and French Loaf" when he won the nationals etc.

We will never know for sure, it is possible, let me correct myself by maybe saying I find it hard to believe.

Koe007 wrote: We will never know for sure, it is possible, let me correct myself by maybe saying I find it hard to believe.

Is it really? I have my doubts. I view this in the same light as the Lance Armstrong situation. There are ppl out there who genuinely believe he's clean... That he, an average cyclist who after recovering from cancer suddenly discovered his god-like talents and went on to totally dominate other competitors who were known juicers and never had cancer...

In my mind I doubt any ifbb pro is clean. And besides, despite what some on here might say, juicers have a compulsion to lie about pinning. "I'm natural bro! It's the whey and the peanut butter! I'm serious! Why won't anyone believe me? I'm just genetically gifted! You don't need steroids bro! You too can get to 260lbs @ 4% body fat if you stay dedicated!" etc etc ad infinitum.

Hi

Need some advice for my 22 year old son, no living with me. He’s in Jo’burg.

Just found out that he and 3 friends got hold of some Supertest 350 and is 6 weeks into their first cycle.

1ml twice a week and talking about doubling up to 2 ml twice a week, at least he agreed to stick 1 ml twice a week.

and really pushing one another in the gym. Told him to watch out for side effect, phones me back and, one of them is already growing tits,

but who cares every one in the gym got tits. Tells me he’s jags all the and klapped the security guard this afternoon.

His details. 22 years old

just under 2 m tall . Tells me he is still growing taller.

Starting weight 81kg .Tall and Lean training for 3/4 years

After 6 weeks 98 kg . tells me he picked up a lot of stomach fat

6 weeks gain 17kg...

They can get hold of Winstol and planing to witch to that after 8 weeks for I don't know how long and straight back to SuperT 350.

His goal 120 kg

At 55 I have a low T problem so I have done a lot of research ( started a new thread ‘ low T’ ) But I am not in a position to advise him about a proper cycle.

Thanking you in anticipation

Andre

Andre N You should of started this under a new threat.
your son is stuffing himself up big time, want to get to 120kg from 81, switching from supertest to winstrol and then back to supertest, wanting to pin 4ml and his friend has already got gyno problems. No No He is going to stuff up the rest of his life. Wait till some of the more experienced guys reply, your son is playing a dangerous game at the moment.

Thanks

Started a ne topic

Crazy youngsters first cycle

Thanks Again Micael.

At least they have just started(6 weeks in) so there is still time to educate them before they go to far. Remember he is tall just under 2 m, training for 3/4 years and tiered of being the tall skinny kid
that's why he started training.At least I found out about this before it was to late.