Not all calories are equal, but is all sleep equal

Hey all,

Having quite a bit of trouble sleeping at the moment, and probably have been for the last 2 years now. The only time I have really slept well was on my honeymoon in March this year when I would sleep from 10 till 10, still manage a doze in the day and sleep 10-10 again the next day. The first week was like this, then returned to a more 11-7 kind of routine with good deep sleep again.

There are many things causing my sleep problems at the moment and I'm wondering if all sleep is equal?

If I toss and turn all night and get 4 hrs of sleep, would it be better to take a sleeping pill (either herbal or prescribed) and get 8 hours of sleep? Is that 8 hours of sleep as good as 8 hours of non-aided natural sleep?

Cheers

DC

What did you do differently on your honeymoon? Maybe you should start doing that more often?

I don't think all sleep is equal, I remember doc saying something that HGH is secreted during the Rapid eye movement (REM) period of sleep and I believe that is a pretty deep sleep, so if you toss and turn all night you are unlikely to fully go into that stage of sleep. This is just what I think and I didn't do any scientific research on this...

Quote from Wikipedia:

Nearly fifty percent of HGH secretion occurs during the third and fourth NREM sleep stages.

So lets say you never reached the third and fourth stages of REM sleep, you are loosing out on your HGH production and obviously that will have a massive impact in your body's rejuvenation and repairing of muscle cells.

admin wrote: What did you do differently on your honeymoon? Maybe you should start doing that more often?

I don't think all sleep is equal, I remember doc saying something that HGH is secreted during the Rapid eye movement (REM) period of sleep and I believe that is a pretty deep sleep, so if you toss and turn all night you are unlikely to fully go into that stage of sleep. This is just what I think and I didn't do any scientific research on this...

There appears to be 2 phases of sleep -

Non-REM sleep & REM
Non-REM has 4 phases

This site has a very good explanation of the sleep cycle - helpguide.org/life/sleeping.htm

As for what did I do differently on my honeymoon? - I took 3 weeks off work, left my mobile and laptop at home, stayed in a 5 star hotel in Bali with a private pool adjoined to our terrace, lazed around all day a did nothing but chill and eat:)

Not sure how easy it would be to replicate that at home

DC EVO wrote:

admin wrote: What did you do differently on your honeymoon? Maybe you should start doing that more often?

I don't think all sleep is equal, I remember doc saying something that HGH is secreted during the Rapid eye movement (REM) period of sleep and I believe that is a pretty deep sleep, so if you toss and turn all night you are unlikely to fully go into that stage of sleep. This is just what I think and I didn't do any scientific research on this...

There appears to be 2 phases of sleep -

Non-REM sleep & REM
Non-REM has 4 phases

This site has a very good explanation of the sleep cycle - helpguide.org/life/sleeping.htm

As for what did I do differently on my honeymoon? - I took 3 weeks off work, left my mobile and laptop at home, stayed in a 5 star hotel in Bali with a private pool adjoined to our terrace, lazed around all day a did nothing but chill and eat:)

Not sure how easy it would be to replicate that at home

Ahh, so let me correct myself. HGH is secreted during NON REM sleep and not during REM sleep as I mentioned earlier. I wonder if sleeping aids will affect this? I guess it depends how the sleeping aid works right?

Did you even enjoy your new wife? I guess that plenty of sex will help with sleeping as well. Dopamine and Oxytocin is great for sleeping well... That's why Cabaser is one of my favorite drugs. It helps to give you these deep sleeps...

admin wrote:

DC EVO wrote:

admin wrote: What did you do differently on your honeymoon? Maybe you should start doing that more often?

I don't think all sleep is equal, I remember doc saying something that HGH is secreted during the Rapid eye movement (REM) period of sleep and I believe that is a pretty deep sleep, so if you toss and turn all night you are unlikely to fully go into that stage of sleep. This is just what I think and I didn't do any scientific research on this...

There appears to be 2 phases of sleep -

Non-REM sleep & REM
Non-REM has 4 phases

This site has a very good explanation of the sleep cycle - helpguide.org/life/sleeping.htm

As for what did I do differently on my honeymoon? - I took 3 weeks off work, left my mobile and laptop at home, stayed in a 5 star hotel in Bali with a private pool adjoined to our terrace, lazed around all day a did nothing but chill and eat:)

Not sure how easy it would be to replicate that at home

Ahh, so let me correct myself. HGH is secreted during NON REM sleep and not during REM sleep as I mentioned earlier. I wonder if sleeping aids will affect this? I guess it depends how the sleeping aid works right?

Did you even enjoy your new wife? I guess that plenty of sex will help with sleeping as well. Dopamine is great for sleeping well... That's why Cabaser is one of my favorite drugs. It helps to give you these deep sleeps...

Definitely enjoyed the new wife that side of things has stayed the same before and after - which is good

Hmmm - this is what I'm trying to find out whether you still go through the same stages if your sleep is aided by medication.

ok quick google check and cabaser is an anti-estroegn...not on anything so probably not the route I should go

Cabaser is an dopamine receptor agonist.

EDIT: I use low doses of Cabaser on or off cycle for various issues I have when prolactin levels are elevated. As soon as my prolactin/progesterone levels are high I don't get 5min of sleep. Restless leg syndrome keeps me up all night and I walk up and down thousands of times as I cannot keep still for a second. (This only happens during and immediately after Tren cycles though)


Are you sure your sleeping problems are not stress related? My chinese friend gave me a couple of vials of Oxytocin to try out... It's suppose to be a very good stress reliever, but I don't have stress. However it's suppose to help with trust issues as well and I do have some paranoia when on cycle and hopefully that might help.

I'm pretty sure that stress plays an active role in my sleep issues - struggle to switch my mind off as well.

The stress isn't going to be going anywhere for a while, I am taking measures where I can to try to reduce and deal with the stresses better.

Leave laptop at work on week nights (most of the time)
Tv off 30 mins before bed and start to read
Mobile off at night

These are just some of the things I have implemented at home as part of my evening ritual. They do help a little.

How is your caffeine intake during the day?
GABA is good for sleep and anxiety. "Supposedly" also assists in HGH secretion.
As far as the sleeping tabs are concerned, there are certainly ones which could be recommended and some which you should stay away from. My opinion, even induced sleep is better than constant insomnia.
Melatonin is a natural supp used for insomnia, however it actually caused insomnia with me.
Lastly - certain foods eg. citrus, contains a flavanoid called naringin, which increases the half life of caffeine. it also interferes with other supplements/medication, usually increasing the half life as well.

Roidrat07 wrote: How is your caffeine intake during the day?
GABA is good for sleep and anxiety. "Supposedly" also assists in HGH secretion.
As far as the sleeping tabs are concerned, there are certainly ones which could be recommended and some which you should stay away from. My opinion, even induced sleep is better than constant insomnia.
Melatonin is a natural supp used for insomnia, however it actually caused insomnia with me.
Lastly - certain foods eg. citrus, contains a flavanoid called naringin, which increases the half life of caffeine. it also interferes with other supplements/medication, usually increasing the half life as well.

Thanks Roidrat

I have only just started taking Jack3d again the last 3 workouts but i dont even feel it. No other caffeine at all.

Tried melatonin for a while but it didn't do a thing for me, if anything like you i struggled more.

Think I will do some more research and chat to my GP.

If anyone else has any input would be appreciated.

Cheers
DC

DC EVO wrote:

Roidrat07 wrote: How is your caffeine intake during the day?
GABA is good for sleep and anxiety. "Supposedly" also assists in HGH secretion.
As far as the sleeping tabs are concerned, there are certainly ones which could be recommended and some which you should stay away from. My opinion, even induced sleep is better than constant insomnia.
Melatonin is a natural supp used for insomnia, however it actually caused insomnia with me.
Lastly - certain foods eg. citrus, contains a flavanoid called naringin, which increases the half life of caffeine. it also interferes with other supplements/medication, usually increasing the half life as well.

Thanks Roidrat

I have only just started taking Jack3d again the last 3 workouts but i dont even feel it. No other caffeine at all.

Tried melatonin for a while but it didn't do a thing for me, if anything like you i struggled more.

Think I will do some more research and chat to my GP.

If anyone else has any input would be appreciated.

Cheers
DC

Jack3d contains DMAA (1,3 Dimethylamine)as well as caffeine! - DMAA is a potent stimulant (same family as caffeine but closely "related" to adrenaline) It is a central nervous stimulant which activates the flight or fight response. Results - lack of sleep and burning of fat/protein for muscle activation (fight/flight) Jack3d formula is enhanced with schizandrol which INCREASES the effect and longevity of DMAA. BTW, DMAA also increases BP. I would not recommend you take this supplement if you have insomnia problems, at the very least not in the afternoon or later.... Hope this helps.

Good luck and lekke slaap

Think I will do some more research and chat to my GP.

Adco-Zolpidem is a great little helper. Not too hectic, and can easily be divided in two for half dose. No groggy feeling the next day. Ask your doc about it.

I have only just started taking Jack3d again the last 3 workouts but i don't even feel it.

... the fact that you did not feel the Jack3d makes me wonder if your adrenals are not overworked and of course increased levels of cortisol goes hand in hand with that - all bad for sleep. Maybe consider taking some supp that "repairs" adrenal fatigue. I would add an immune booster to it if I was you, just for good measure.

Try Gabba. I sleep like a baby on that stuff. I get the bulk powder format from a friend. I tried the dischem stuff solal and biogen but didn't get close. Also work out much cheaper.

There is many things that can help sleep, I have suffered my whole life with sleep problems, go to the pharmacy and get 30 x 25mg phenergan's which is an antihistamine, it is safe for kids too, take 1 at night 15 minutes before bed and *bang* you out for the count..

Try it tell me what you think, the first night you may need quite a bit more sleep, but the second thing is consistancy so make sure you go to bed every night at the same time, if you get them today, sleep in tomorrow as you may feel a little tired.. It's just for the first 3 days.

Good luck and let me know.

dc evo,how much high intensity training/cardio are you doing in a week?

DC, I would stay away from the prescription sleeping pills like stilnox and dormicum. They have codeine in them and you can very easily develop a tolerance to them. I also find with these type of sleeping pills that they just shut your body off, but I wake up feeling unrested and still tired. I had a problem sleeping from the tren in my last cycle even though I was on 5iu HGH/day. It was horrible, used to toss and turn all night, in the morning my pillow used to be drentched with sweat, and also the lack of sleep used to heighten the anger and irritability caused by the tren. I wasn't a happy camper for that whole coarse.

@DJ - at the moment due to injuries I am doing 3 total body days a week, plus 2 easy jogs or 3-4kms - which for me is relatively low loading.

@Roidrat - I train at 10.30am normally so jack3d is taken then, but the problem has been for the last 2 years now roughly, where I toss and turn all night. End up going for a piss 2-3 times per night. Irritating as hell as i used to sleep solidly all through the night.

@Pump - I will get Phenergans and use them tonight. My only thing with using aided sleep is that yes I'm asleep but it's because of the medication. The underlying symptoms will still be going on in my body but the medication will be masking it?

@Etwa - will also look into the use of GABBA but have heard mixed reports about its efficacy.

I had also been taking Venteze recently and really didn't feel anything until I got to 24mg a day. Have since stopped it because I didn't feel going to that dose was worth it. Did a whole week of adco-zetofen and that does make me drowsy before bed and sleep was a little better on a couple of the nights with that.

I should maybe look at adrenal fatigue and stuff to combat that.

No dude, its an antihistamine.. It just relaxes you a bit, it doesn't effect you like perscription medication and safe to use long term.

why not try some melatonin to start.

Evo- once you do fall a sleep do you snore or breath heavily?

10% of the population has got sleep apnea, but only 1% knows about their condition.

DJ wrote: why not try some melatonin to start.

Melatonin is actually quite dangerous as you can really mess up your sleep pattern with it, if used for very short periods of time it is ok, but they say even a few weeks could completely mess up your sleep cycle. However its a very safe natural way to deal with sleep, just becareful if you have glaucoma...

Very interesting topic. I just pop an Allergex if i feel a bit edgy at night. Helps with my allergies as well.

Usually I sleep quite well and am knocked out by 10pm. I've been having some really strange dreams lately. Usually I don't dream often or don't remember my dreams. Last week i dreamt i was drowning, and yesterday I dreamt i wrote myself off in a Hyundai i20. I mean WTF... A Hyundai?!?

bones wrote: Very interesting topic. I just pop an Allergex if i feel a bit edgy at night. Helps with my allergies as well.

Usually I sleep quite well and am knocked out by 10pm. I've been having some really strange dreams lately. Usually I don't dream often or don't remember my dreams. Last week i dreamt i was drowning, and yesterday I dreamt i wrote myself off in a Hyundai i20. I mean WTF... A Hyundai?!?

Bones you must stop putting your LSD in the same container as your allergex! :lol:

Ondier wrote: Evo- once you do fall a sleep do you snore or breath heavily?

10% of the population has got sleep apnea, but only 1% knows about their condition.

Hey Ondier - I asked the mrs and she says that I don't snore or breath heavily, so rules out that one.