Degenerative changes

Hi

So I know Fillet had a topic opened around this in 2013, I didnt want to reopen but I'm in the dark with this. After a car accident a few weeks back I had xrays and a CT scan done and the results were as follows.

- Degenerative change is again identified at C5/C6 and C6/C7 with endplate sclerosis and anterior osteophyte formation.
- A large anterior longitudinal calcification is also present at the C6/C7 disk space.
- And then something about an unfused posterior arch is noted at C2.

I can't remember everything the xrays said, but was on similar lines to that.

So I have not seen anyone, should I be? I have booked to see a neurologist, but just got off the phone with my psychiatrist about an hour ago and he said not to go as I dont have any symptoms around pins and needles, tingling sensation, extreme pain, loss of feeling etc.

The thing is I would like to understand this more, have a specialist in this field give me advise on how best to manage things. I don't want surgery, but I do want to ask the same age old question, could IGF-1 help with this. I read a trial on DDD where after 20x days positive increase in bone density was noted but wet index mass of kidneys was increased.

Not been in the gym for nearly 2 months now, because of pneumonia and then the accident. So do I just let it be and know this will happen when you spent so many years of your life in gym and just get to a physio to strengthen things up, or go to the neurologist and see what his stance is on IGF or some other type of growth inducing hormone, as that could be down his alley?

Yo pump, i can't offer any advice but would like to send my well wishes bro. Hope you recover and get what you need so that you can continue to live and love your hobby and lifestyle.

Sorry to hear this. Hesitate to offer advice to a pro.. but for what its worth, I also have degenerative discs, causing radiculopathy sometimes. When I suggested surgery to a GP, he said I should come back when it reaches the point that I can't hold my bike handlebars. My conclusion is, this is 'mileage', must deal with it, as with any other injury. I've enjoyed a lifetime of training, wouldn't change it. Strongs

mack wrote: Sorry to hear this. Hesitate to offer advice to a pro.. but for what its worth, I also have degenerative discs, causing radiculopathy sometimes. When I suggested surgery to a GP, he said I should come back when it reaches the point that I can't hold my bike handlebars. My conclusion is, this is 'mileage', must deal with it, as with any other injury. I've enjoyed a lifetime of training, wouldn't change it. Strongs

Solid advice.. Off to a chiro in the next 15 minutes, will see what he says.. I have kept my appointment with the neurologist just so I can challenge him with some questions and get a better understanding of things. But you right, this is simply wear and tear. I want to find out about this IGF route, but even if I get the thumbs up from a neurologist, I would have to get the green light from my nephrologist and cardiologist, as it doesnt help to improve my spine it I land up affecting my heart or kidneys further. Will keep an update here as I go through the channels.

Any plans to see a decent physio?

Sorry Pump but life happens. Stay focused.
One step at a time.
1. Drop weight
2. Strengthen core.
A good start...

Hi Pump,

Get a physio to help you strengthen things up for the long run of course. And keep your appointment with your neurologist so you can drill him with questions, but as is sometimes the case with doctors/specialists they tend to get scared off when asked questions they cant definitively answer on the spot and go with the safest answer. If possible, I suggest emailing beforehand so that he can do some research into the exact topics you wish to speak about - make sure it is down his alley!

One study I saw was this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3978730/#B33

I paraphrase:
- A study by Hayes and Ralphs confirmed that IGF-1 can effectively stimulate the synthesis of collagen types 1 and 2.
- Walsh and colleagues concluded that early intervention during disc degeneration had implications for the arrest or slowing of the degenerative process (they used multiple injections of a variety of growth factors including IGF)
- There was a trend of increased disc height but not statistically significant.

With trends of increased disc height, slowing of disc degeneration and stimulation of the synthesis of collagen which obviously make up the intervertebral discs I would say using IGF would be beneficial for you in that regard.

Shot for that Study Hormonas.

Maybe for Pump to combine IGF1 LR3 with GHRP would be good.

Hormonas wrote: Hi Pump,

Get a physio to help you strengthen things up for the long run of course. And keep your appointment with your neurologist so you can drill him with questions, but as is sometimes the case with doctors/specialists they tend to get scared off when asked questions they cant definitively answer on the spot and go with the safest answer. If possible, I suggest emailing beforehand so that he can do some research into the exact topics you wish to speak about - make sure it is down his alley!

One study I saw was this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3978730/#B33

I paraphrase:
- A study by Hayes and Ralphs confirmed that IGF-1 can effectively stimulate the synthesis of collagen types 1 and 2.
- Walsh and colleagues concluded that early intervention during disc degeneration had implications for the arrest or slowing of the degenerative process (they used multiple injections of a variety of growth factors including IGF)
- There was a trend of increased disc height but not statistically significant.

With trends of increased disc height, slowing of disc degeneration and stimulation of the synthesis of collagen which obviously make up the intervertebral discs I would say using IGF would be beneficial for you in that regard.

That study makes me feel more stupiderest. :sick: :blink: Hormonas did you at least figure it out?

My head hurts now... :pinch:

It requires slow reading

Hormonas wrote: It requires slow reading

I take it you didn't figure it out. :lol: :lol:

Pyroclasm wrote:

Hormonas wrote: It requires slow reading

I take it you didn't figure it out. :lol: :lol:

Haha no I understood all of it - I've worked in research before so studies are easier to read when you have done so and know the biological terms etc helps but occasionally had to head over to google for a definition :blink:

Pump have you looked into prolotherapy or stem cell treatment or? it looks quite promising for disc degeneration. Stem cell treatment has loads of other benefits for us guys who aren't spring chickens anymore.

stemcellinstitute.co.za/pricing/

Muscleaddict wrote: Pump have you looked into prolotherapy or stem cell treatment or? it looks quite promising for disc degeneration. Stem cell treatment has loads of other benefits for us guys who aren't spring chickens anymore.

stemcellinstitute.co.za/pricing/

It has been something I have kept my eye on for the last 15 or so years, more around stem cell treatment for reversal of type 1 diabetes. And then more recently with Levrone and his knees. Then my sister with an ankle issue and they wanted to use stem cells. So maybe it is a good idea. I finally have been mobilized, the chiro after the 3rd season was able to pop my L whatever on the one side but not the other, prior to that it was properly seized up. So I am going to carry on with this road, maybe use some valium for a few days as a muscle relaxer and then get some weight down and see what light gym does. More the cardio route and such. Going to keep that stem cell option open, do some more reading and see if it's the right route to go down.

Hormonas wrote: Hi Pump,

Get a physio to help you strengthen things up for the long run of course. And keep your appointment with your neurologist so you can drill him with questions, but as is sometimes the case with doctors/specialists they tend to get scared off when asked questions they cant definitively answer on the spot and go with the safest answer. If possible, I suggest emailing beforehand so that he can do some research into the exact topics you wish to speak about - make sure it is down his alley!

One study I saw was this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3978730/#B33

I paraphrase:
- A study by Hayes and Ralphs confirmed that IGF-1 can effectively stimulate the synthesis of collagen types 1 and 2.
- Walsh and colleagues concluded that early intervention during disc degeneration had implications for the arrest or slowing of the degenerative process (they used multiple injections of a variety of growth factors including IGF)
- There was a trend of increased disc height but not statistically significant.

With trends of increased disc height, slowing of disc degeneration and stimulation of the synthesis of collagen which obviously make up the intervertebral discs I would say using IGF would be beneficial for you in that regard.

Interesting read, I have read it before, but nice to go over again, more beneficial now as to where I currently stand.