Debunking bodybuilding myths

Hi all
I'm not sure if a thread like this has been started so I decided to share with forum my learnings. Now I'm sure many won't agree with me and I don't really have the time to look up studies I read and repost here.
We can also use this thread to seperate bro science from the real science. I'm fully aware that one size doesn't fit all but this is what is working for me

Ok so some may remember I have always had kidney issues i.e elevated creatinine and urea levels. My last blood test a few months ago confirmed they weren't getting better.

Since I started training in 2006, I have always followed the bodybuilding recommendation of 2g/ kilo of protein and sometimes well exceeded those amounts. Always being led by magazine advertising and the latest diet, I tried almost all the diets all with excessive amounts of protein in the hope of building muscle and losing fat.

I decided to try an altogether different approach and that is to follow the recommended daily allowance of protein. For those that don't know its only 0.8grams per lean kilo of body weight. Now let me give you some of my stats
Age -34
Height-198cm
Weight when I started-107kilos
Bodyfat -25 % approx

So for me that works out to only 64grams per day of protein. They say if u active factor in 10% so I rounded of 80grams of protein per day. Some days I get a max of 100grams.that's still 1.5 times the rda which I feel is more than enough. My fats are around 60 - 70 grams and carbs make up the balance of up to 300grams daily
So I average up to 2300 calories daily. My body type is endomorph and I have tried diets low carbs etc and it didn't work for me from a results and satiety point of view

My results
Well most importantly my kidneys are 100% again after 7 years. Creatinine must be under 104. Mine is on 80. Previously was well in the 130's and doctors were concerned.

I have also lost 13 kilos. Now on 94kg. Strength hasn't been impacted so I would like to think its mostly fat. My pants size from a 40 to 34 also makes me believe its mostly fat



Previously I was also afraid to eat at such a calorie deficit as I was always scared of myth number 2. Starvation mode. While starvation mode may exist, it definitely doesn't exist for me or those at such a high bodyfat even if they are eating a deficit for such long periods. Refeeds are therefore not necessary. I read that if you are sub 6% bf then starvation mode becomes a reality. So for me until I'm there, I won't worry about refeeds at the sake of muscle loss.

Admittedly you not going to look like Jay or Ronnie following this but many of us like me need to crawl before we can walk or run. And for me that means getting down to 80kilos and single figure bf before I can even attempt a bulk. This method of high carb and moderate protein is working like a bomb for me. It also saves my budget as carbs are cheap and no more protein supps or 300 eggs monthly necessary.

So that my two myths debunked. Protein needs and starvation mode.
Ill keep my progress updated. Gonna be outta gym for a month as I had my tonsils removed yesterday. I will post before and after pics when I hit my goals

Nice results Bro.

Good post!

Nice post and results Ice !

Did you use creatine while having test or a few weeks before tests? Also were you overweight when they started checking out kidneys?

No. I haven't used creatine in years because of the same issues. When I used it in the past, the results were of the kidneys were much worse.

What also prompted me to try lower protein was I came across vegan bodybuilding website. Those guys results are very impressive for people who don't eat meat. They don't concern themselves with things like the ammino acid profile of the protein is incomplete. Now I factor in all the protein. For example my breakfast is 50grams oats with 6grams of honey and 100ml skim milk and 6 equal sweetner plus 2 slices albany low gi toast with toast
That equals to around 80grams of carbs, 22 grams of protein and just under 10 grams of fat. Previously I never counted the protein that came from those carb sources and added in 10 egg whites which increased my protein and my calories and kept me fat.

I also used the if it fits your macros diet strategy so I basically have freedom to eat what I want as long as I count the calories. Whilst eating clean is a more healthier option, your body doesn't know or care that its carb and protein sources is from oats and chicken breast or sugary cereal and pizza. Previously, I was too concerned about insulin sensitivity, types of carbs, timing etc rather than calories in vs calories out.

I now have more freedom to enjoy foods I like in moderation. If even if its junk food though, I still weigh it and count calories and eat in a deficit so the weight keeps coming off

So when I get my weight down to 80kilos, I estimate my bf to be around 8%. Using the strategies, I will increase my calories and attempt to bulk. That may mean me keeping proteins and fats similar and increasing carbs even up to 700grams daily. Not bad for an endomorph who was once considered to have poor insulin sensitivity.
Through trial and error I will determine whether it will work or not. For now I'm of the firm belief that protein is overrated, most of us are being misled by the advertising and eating too much and calories from carbs makes the muscles look fuller and bigger

Firstly well done on your impressive weight loss and recovery,I remember your posts and concern about this issue.
I must however state that I don't believe this is as simple as saying those are myths in bodybuilding but rather that it boils down to individual responses. I respond very well to high protein intake I'm currently on almost 400g a day, I also however respond well to carbs because I'm much leaner. Also eating more frequently has been proven,to boost the metabolism and I truly believe provides a constant flow of much needed protein to feed the muscles and aid in recovery.
Again I am not at all saying your approach is incorrect but rather that you have found what works for your body, this perspective could be helpful to,others with similar issues to what you had.
I respect your research and application of this approach.

Koe007 wrote: Firstly well done on your impressive weight loss and recovery,I remember your posts and concern about this issue.
I must however state that I don't believe this is as simple as saying those are myths in bodybuilding but rather that it boils down to individual responses. I respond very well to high protein intake I'm currently on almost 400g a day, I also however respond well to carbs because I'm much leaner. Also eating more frequently has been proven,to boost the metabolism and I truly believe provides a constant flow of much needed protein to feed the muscles and aid in recovery.
Again I am not at all saying your approach is incorrect but rather that you have found what works for your body, this perspective could be helpful to,others with similar issues to what you had.
I respect your research and application of this approach.

Thanks Koe. This strategy for me is an alternate to the traditional bodybuilding diet that we all have known and have tried and may work for someone else like it did for me. My goals are very different now than it was 6 years ago and being lean and healthy has more priority now. Before being muscular was the main goal at the risk of pushing certain boundaries.

In regards to the other diets, I have tried almost all. Keto for me was the worst. I could never achieve that metabolic switch they spoke of from carbs to fat for energy and felt miserable for weeks on end. I guess compliance to the diet and actually getting it to your lifestyle is just as important as the diet itself if not more important.

I like training with a full belly of carbs as it fuels my intensity of the workout and the abilty carbs has to store water in your muscles makes you stronger.

But I fully agree with you. One size doesn't fit all. Maybe this works for me but not someone else. Its just that for me bodybuilding doesn't have to be about boring meals and training only. I love the sport, but I was getting tired of the dieting part and also achieving minimal to no results.

Has anyone heard of Dr Ellington Darden. Google this guy and read his webpage. His methods of dieting and training put a whole different view on how one can train and diet.

His training style is full bodyworkout 2 to 3 times a week. 12 sets total 8 to 12 reps to failure. It takes 20 -30 minutes to complete. Heart rate is around 200bpm. I tried it on Sunday before my op. Damn its a buster. His website has all the science around why works better than split routines. Am keen to give it a proper go once I recover from my tonsils op. Let me know what ur thoughts are
www.drdarden.com

I did a supertest, equi cycle last year during which i dieted down. Lost 12kg and was larger somehow afterwards and much stronger, for example, i could barely deadlift 200kg before cycle and by week 8 could go for 6 reps.

I found that however as in your case i dropped callories quite a bit more than reccomended, and got better results...

I somehow also stuggle to lose weight when my protein intake is too high. So I have an idea that us "fatties" or typical endomorphs should really be carefull of the information in bodybuilding mags and websites out there.

As soon as I drop my carbs too low while cutting, like I did this week, visually I drop size rapidly. Which is normal. But I am also on higher protein and it did little to preserve the muscle fullness which comes from carbs and water. Personally if I drop protein too low though I notice a loss in muscle, not merely fullness that I lose from dropping carbs. So each to their own.

exactly the same for me

Lee Haney made a statement, he said as an ectomorph he could grow on even 1g/lb of protein! Which does support what you are saying as well because we all know how thick Lee was.
George Farrah also believes in more carbs, interesting take on the many ways we can apply some different methods to keep the physique transforming.
DJ and myself now know exactly what I respond to im glad you are in that same frame of mind Ice-Rip

first off well done on your fat loss and getting your kidneys sorted, good form!

my take on your whole approach on this form of dieting and what u say is low protein etc.

the biggest thing here and u have said it,calories in vs calories out, u have hit the nail on the head right there, i can tell u now that you eating 2300 calories on at your weight will cause fat loss, the average calorie intake working on rough estimates of fat loss is 25-26 calories per kg of body weight for fat loss,so 2500-2600 calories would also result in a decent fat loss, so i think your calories are still a bit low to result in "no muscle loss" as u have said. the 0.8g of protein per kg is perfect for cell regeneration and organ health and the rest of the bodily functions but to grow massive muscle i am still a bit sceptical about this, i would say at least 1.5g per kg of lean body mass will be the best for the muscle growth idea. it is still low protein and will help your kidney issue. its just my personal opinion.

yes higher carbs will keep your muscles fuller,this is a fact,glycogen stores will be still be high. u will look fuller and feel harder through out your day no questions about that. my personal opinion is that when you start bulking again i would increase calories from protein some what from 0.8 - 1.5g which will still give u a calorie increase and will help u grow muscle.

if your protein is too high then yes u will battle to loose fat,as ice-rip said calories in vs calories out is correct. but by keeping your protein constant,fats constant and drop carbs this will force the glycogen stores to deplete and thus having the body tap into body fat stores for energy, this will burn body fat. you will have a drop in leptin this way so u need to have refeed every 3-4 days depending on how depleted you are.

all these things arent myths,they are tried and tested facts that will work for fat loss,its all about manipulation of the body to get your body lean.

i have tried this low protein of 1g per lb etc and well it didnt work out well for me as i was always starving as carbs go right through me, also i need quite a bit of red meat for me to keep my iron high and well, 100g of steak a meal wasnt enough for me, but like i said all is different for every one.

with koe last year we did drop calories from protiens and fats first untill we got to a level of 3.0g of protein per kg of body weight and carbs were still high and came in shredded, but we had to drop calories weekly from all the macro nutrients.

so all in all, its each to their own. and this if it fits your macro-nutrients principle. i think the biggest thing its a lot of people are looking for the way to loose fat the easiest way possible. i dont agree in this approach personally. any one can loose fat eating a slab of chocolate and steers burger as long as its bellow their calorie needs. but to build muscle like this? i dont think so personally.

also how can u say that u havent suffered muscle loss : starting weight of 107kgs @ 25% is a lean body mass of 80.25 kgs. u say when you are down to 80kgs u estimate your body fat to be at 8% which mean u will be 73.4 kgs lbm, thats is 7kgs down on your lbm!

to be honest working it out u are actually under eating to maintain your current lean body mass bro,i would up those calories otherwise u will be loosing more muscle than you have already.

That makes alot of sense, im still learning

It does make a lot of sense
Those figures were rough estimates regarding the bf.
Right now though with the tonsills out, I'm struggling to even get in 1200 calories per day that's how intense the pain is when an adult removes them and its getting progressively worse.

The only way to properly gauge this is to have a bodyfat test done. I know the scale isn't everything to go by but I found the better the scale looks, the better the mirror does

I am eating at my BMR + 10% =RMR (2300 calories). I don't factor in activity level multiplier of 1.55 anymore. So those calories I burn on training days I feel help me reach the goal a whole lot faster.

I will relook at my numbers though when I am well. At almost 2 metres tall, I don't want to look like a light pole too so preservation of muscle is key. Remember the protein sparring effect of carbs too so at 100grams daily, I am 1.5 x the rda lean body weight.

DJ are their special conciderations when working out diets for guys in the 20-25% bodyfat range?

bro u are going to look like a light pole at 80kgs where u wanna be, you are eating way to little!! u are loosing muscle no doubt in my mind with such low calories.

thunderbeast : yes,less food,more exercise!