SuThy's attempt at ketogenic dieting

Oh snap SuThy, you need to work on planning a bit better, don't wait for the last minute to figure these things out. On keto the carb-up is a big deal and you should've worked out your needs much earlier - or asked us earlier at the very least.

Hope it went well.

haha, I'm slack with planning hey.
I did a full body workout but no legs so that I had strength to do legs today.
for my carb up I had lucozade (mostly glucose) in my shake and then I had about 150/200 grams wholewheat pasta (cooked) and two slices of wholewheat bread with a bit of hummus on for flavour as well as about 300 grams of pineapple.
I wasn't sure this was the right way to do a carb up but I thought it would be better than trying to stuff down 800 grams of sweet potato.

for my next carb up, should I change something/everything I did this time round?

I did my 1st carb up on saturday and i still feel bloated! If it will be like this always i will have only 2 carb up meals each saturday morning (breakfast and lunch)and keep the carb count below 400 and not 620 like i did

How you going SuThy?

how do you work out how many carbs you need for your carb up?
I wanna do it perfectly next time.
also, are the food sources I used fine?

how much weight are you down now ABC01?

Hey SuThy, depending on bodyfat accuracy I'd say 620g carbs for the entire carb-up. So that's 118g fast digesting PWO, then rest complex, preferably split up evenly, preferably 50g carbs a meal. This may not always be practical but I found it optimal. Avoid fats on your carb-up man, no hummus. If you want flavour use herbs and spices - you are cutting bro, eat like it. To make it easy for myself I eat oats and fruits - but I never get tired of those. Maybe you want variety, that's ok, just make healthy choices.

Also, don't wimp out with legs, squats should be the main lift on your whole body day together with deadlifts. Take the next day off after the carb-up and the day after, exercise your weakest muscle/ muscles that you think need the most work (default recommendation is legs). That way the biggest part of your glycogen gets spent in a constructive way.

No go out, deplete your glycogen, and do me proud by stuffing yourself with 620g of carbs! :evil:

ABC01 wrote: I did my 1st carb up on saturday and i still feel bloated! If it will be like this always i will have only 2 carb up meals each saturday morning (breakfast and lunch)and keep the carb count below 400 and not 620 like i did

If you worked out hard enough in the week, the bloat from the carb-up should disappear fast. If you are unsure if you depleted everything sufficiently, take the carbs down. Also consider splitting them up more evenly. You want to super-compensate your muscles, but there is a limit to how much you can optimality absorb in one sitting.

thanks so much bro
ok, so now... must I start eating carbs from breakfast or only after I do my workout?
that's a lot of carbs but it's ok if it's gonna be over 7 meals.
I thought I was doing a one meal carb up so it's good you cleared that up for me
what can I have that's got 120g of fast digesting carbs. I'd puke if i had 120g of glucose powder.
can I have lucozade and laak.... energade? haha.

so, day off after my carb up and then my weakest body part... I'd say back is my weakest.
my legs are massive.
I go jeans shopping more than food shopping. hahaha
so i'll do back.

600 grams of carbs. sheesh. gonna sit down and plan that so I don't get too stuffed. haha
that's over 6 meals + pwo right?
thanks brother

600g is allot of carbs if you sticking to good sources. That is allot of food. I mean 100g of sweet potato is like 17g of carbs. You would have to eat a pocket. As soon as you have some treats it adds up quickly!

I am planning my carb up tonight and tomorrow morning. Tonight pigging out on a ton of sushi! Doing allot of mountain biking this wknd so hopefully my glycogen stores will be fully depleted sunday evening.

I saw some good strenght increases in the gym this week. How is your strength keeping up with this diet SuThy?

Hey guys,

Yeah 600g of carbs is a lot! I can remember when I was on keto +/- a month a ago my carb-up was about 500g and the PWO shake, and I'm small oke! It seems intimidating cause how the rest of keto forces you to eat, but if you stick to good foods it'll work wonders.

I needed to split mine up in like 6 meals, so what I did is worked how I was going to split them, prepare the food, then divide it by the number of meals I had to eat. I had a meal every 2 hours of +/- 50g of carbs. I know some people do the carb-up as one meal, but I have no clue how they get to 200-300g of carbs. I have always split up the carb-up, so I can't really give you anecdotal advise on it, sorry man.

I realize now how much 120g of PWO carbs is... I suppose it won't hurt if you reduce it. I use Game Isotonic PWO and I only needed half of that so it was easy, but like I said: I'm a lot smaller than you guys.

Ja crap 600g of carbs is over a kg of just Jungle Oats. Jeez, better make it a bit more interesting to get it in. But depending when you workout you can have the whole day to eat it.

the thing with doing a single carb up meal u want to limit protein,fat and fiber.... this will help getting those carbs in easier,and depending on how depleted you are depends on how much carbohydrate you will need... i usually use a feeding window of "1hour" to start off, low protein and low fat and little to no lactose is needed....the reason is the protein and fats and fiber will slow down the digestion of carbohydrates.... so things like jelly babies, pasta with tomato sauce,meringues, they all go down well when doing a carb up...

i have done carb ups of 1000g of carbs in 3 hours before with low fiber,protein and fat content... remember to take scopex,alpha lipolic acid,chromium and some cinnamon to help with glucose disposal...

Shot DJ.

Yeah SuThy, forgot to mention, on the day of the carb-up, preceding the workout, cut down on the fats. In fact, I would say try and eat clean protein only. Depending on your caloric allowance for the day of the carb-up, you shouldn't be eating much more than the designated carbs full stop. I added like 10g of whey with each meal, with all those carbohydrates protein goes a long way.

Furk / DJ, would this apply to a regular carb cycling cutting diet too? If I train legs on Saturday and want to carb up for the session, when should I have my high carb day?

ok now I'm a bit confused.
@DJ, should I be doing a single carb up meal or split it all up?
if I split it all up, when do I take the ALA, chromium and cinnamon?
also, if I split it up can I still eat junk such as jelly babies?

@furk, is 10g of whey per meal really enough?
I would assume some solid protein sources should be added such as egg whites or chicken?

carbs are generally easy to eat if you don't go the potato/sweet potato route.
I can chow down about 1kg of pasta and tomato sauce so it shouldn't be an issue
and post workout I think I'll try that game isotonic stuff, where can I get it from?

shot guys, I really appreciate your help and I'm happy to help out too
that said, I should try give more detail of my progress...
well, my strength has dropped a bit recently but my carb up wasn't too accurate so that could be why
my weight is dropping a bit more slowly than I expected and I'm not managing to get in enough vegetables
how good is avocado as a source of vitamins?

You can get Game at most shops. Look for the sachets in the cooldrink/mix-a-drink section.

Safehouse wrote: Furk / DJ, would this apply to a regular carb cycling cutting diet too? If I train legs on Saturday and want to carb up for the session, when should I have my high carb day?

all depends on how depleted you are from training snd cardio.... you can carb up before your leg session.

@SuThy: With increased carbs the need of protein decreases, the other way round as well. On my carb-up I didn't have place for much other food, I was cutting it close as it was. Dude Game, Energade, Lucazade, Powerade, Clifton ect. You know the stuff, all isotonic

@Safehouse: In carb cycling the carbohydrate fluctuations are a lot less. Keto means as close to zero carbs regularly, and on the carb-up you pretty much each maintenance on just carbs. Carb cycling refers to high, low and lower (or no) carb days. I wouldn't push my high carb days on carb-cycling as high as I do on keto. I think I would gain fat that way.

Thanks guys.

Furk, I was not contemplating going that high!

Is there a formula I can apply to calculate low/med/high for carb cycling?

My low is currently 100-150g; med 150-200; high 200-250.

(Apologies for the hijack SuThy).

Safehouse wrote: Furk, I was not contemplating going that high!

Is there a formula I can apply to calculate low/med/high for carb cycling?

My low is currently 100-150g; med 150-200; high 200-250.

Low Carb: 1g carb X weight x 2.2 in 3 meals (breakfast, pre, post)
No Carb: No direct sources. Eat only fibrous vegetables
High Carb: 4 carb meals of good carbs. Eat till you are satisfied. (ie. as much as you want not to stuff yourself)

That's the only reference I have, and to be honest I don't obey it. I only eat carbs at breakfast, pre and post anyway, and no way can I eat carbs untill I am full. I know my body and I know how I react to eating certain amounts (and types of foods). If you your weekly calorie deficiency is still in check, go for it though. Just don't put two high carb days in a row.

quick question, should I be doing cardio everyday?
I have found that my progress has halted this week and I'm getting worried.
also, since I have dropped about 4kg's must I change my diet up or is it fine because that's just water loss mainly.
I'm getting clen and yohimbe soon, anyone think it's too early for me to be using it?
last year I waited till I had lost about 7kg's.
thanks
and no problem safehouse, this is everyone's forum:D

SuThy how much cardio are you doing at the moment bra?
Is your workout still as follows?

SuThy wrote: I
my workout routine is
monday: legs
tuesday: chest and abs
wednesday: rest
thursday: back
friday: shoulders and biceps

If so, I would say do cardio after weights. Also consider doing something Wednesdays, even if it's just fasted cardio.

The yohimbe will work fantastic on keto (insulin ect). With the clen added you should she results fast. Read up on previous threads to inform yourself on their use and you will be fine.

SuThy wrote: how do you work out how many carbs you need for your carb up?
I wanna do it perfectly next time.
also, are the food sources I used fine?

how much weight are you down now ABC01?

Funny thing, tomorrow i will be 3 weeks into keto and only down 1.2kg. Visually there is a big difference. I am definately more toned. I started off at 10% bf so never expected to loose much weight. I am planning to check my bf next friday

hey guys, quick question
I'm gonna gym at 4 o clock
can I start my carb up after the session?
I figured that depleting glycogen levels must happen before the carb up so not point in starting before the session
also, if DJ or one of the guys could just give me a basic 4/5 meal carb up plan I would really appreciate it as I am confused about when I can chow jelly babies and when I should chow complex carbs.
haha
thanks men

oh and also, I'm not gonna do the one meal/1 hour/ 3 hour carb up
I'm gonna have my pwo at 5 ish then eat at 6 then 8 then 10 then 12 then bedtime. haha

SuThy the PWO drink is the start of the carb up. The PWO is simple, the rest complex carbs.