Macros training days vs off days

Hey guys! I hate posting stupid topics but I'm kind of wondering about this one! i know from this forum and experience that nutrition it the key to a great physique and that is precisely why I want my routine to be critisized and evaluated. Is my approach correct or not?

Goal: FAT LOSS
Training: 4 days weight training a week, no cardio

Stats: 169cm
72.5kg
21.9% bf

I follow an intermittent fasting approach with an eating window of 5-6 hours a day.

Macros:

On training days (1478 Calories)

Protein: 140g
Carbs: 110g
Fats: 47g


On off-days: (1431 calories)

Protein: 140g
Carbs: 57g
Fats: 66g

Main protein sources:

Whey isolate
Chicken breast fillet
Lean mince (beef)

Main carbs source:

White potato, skinless, steamed
Brown rice, long grain

Main fat source:

Olive oil (extra virgin)
Macadamia nuts

Thanks

Why no cardio if you're trying to lose weight?

Need to do cardio...seems like you eating too little. Have you worked out you bmr? What are ratios for your protein/carbs/fats. Fats are higher than carbs? Doesn't make sense unless you were doing keto but then your carbs are to high? Read through the stickies bro - this will help you understand a little better how to structure your stuff

Wimmas wrote: Hey guys! I hate posting stupid topics but I'm kind of wondering about this one! i know from this forum and experience that nutrition it the key to a great physique and that is precisely why I want my routine to be critisized and evaluated. Is my approach correct or not?

Goal: FAT LOSS
Training: 4 days weight training a week, no cardio

Stats: 169cm
72.5kg
21.9% bf

I follow an intermittent fasting approach with an eating window of 5-6 hours a day.

Macros:

On training days (1478 Calories)

Protein: 140g
Carbs: 110g
Fats: 47g


On off-days: (1431 calories)

Protein: 140g
Carbs: 57g
Fats: 66g

Main protein sources:

Whey isolate
Chicken breast fillet
Lean mince (beef)

Main carbs source:

White potato, skinless, steamed
Brown rice, long grain

Main fat source:

Olive oil (extra virgin)
Macadamia nuts

Thanks

Calories are way to low mate. At your weight and height, you would be running a 20% calorie deficit by eating 2000 cals/day.

BMR = 1590 KCals (Using the Katch-McArdle method where bf is taken into consideration)

I have incorporated a bit of a Lean Gains approach - more carbs on training days, less on off days with rather more fats.

Ratios
Training days:
40/30/30

Off-days
40/17/43

I don't do cardio cause I'm already at a caloric deficit, so whether or not I do cardio I am supposed to still lose weight. I'm trying to retain as much muscle as possible so I also take EVOX BCAA's before and after fasted workouts. I follow IF because for me it currently works and it much more convenient for me as I usually have class in the mornings so no time for cooking then.

All I wanna make sure of, it the food i eat and the amount of calories I eat good? Here is a list of the food that I eat everyday:

Chicken breast fillet
Lean mince
White potato, skinless, steamed
Brown rice, long grain
Mixed veg/broccoli
Apple
Macadamia nuts
olive oil

Supplements

Whey Isolate
BCAA
Multivitamin
Flaxseed oil 1000mg

Yes but if you do cardio you will give your metabolism a boost twice a day and you will speed up the fat loss process. I would do fasted cardio in the morning and weight sessions in the evening. Its all about timing of carbs, breakfast pre and post workout. Your body will use the carbs up during this time. As for non training days, maybe your first 2-3 meals should have carbs in it and then the rest just protein and fats. Don't mix fats and carbs in a single meal. Your sources of proteins, carbs and fats are of good quality. You could use sweet potato and oats as a source of carbs and maybe add some tuna or white fish to your proteins. Maybe you should post gram for gram what you eat meal for meal and we can help you tweak it. Still think that your calories are too low.

Okay, all weight measurements is when cooked

Training anywhere from 07:00 - 11:00 (Sometimes it would be after my first meal, depending on my schedule for the day)
BCAA 5g before and 5g after workout

Meal 1 (12:30)

I first steam the white, skinless potato in the microwave, then I fry the chicken breast fillet and steamed potato in a pan with 15ml extra virgin olive oil with a little bit of garlic and herb seasoning (It tastes much better than dry, grilled chicken or plain steamed potato). The veggies are also steamed. So in this meal, there are protein, fat and carbs and it's my first meal after working out earlier in the day

150g chicken fillet (33/-/4.
250g white potato, skinless (4.8/53/0.2)
100g broccoli/mixed veg (2.5/9/0.6)
1 multivitamin
1 flax seed capsule

Meal 2 (15:30)

80g Whey Isolate (72/0.8/0.16)
25g Macadamia nuts, raw, unsalted (2/3.25/19)
1 Apple (-/23/-)
1 flax seed capsule

Meal 3 (17:30)

100g Lean mince (22.6/-/
100g Brown rice (3/23/1)
1 flax seed capsule

This is more or less my diet on training days, sometimes the quantities change with the varying sizes/weight of the apples, potatoes, mixed veg and chicken! The other foods remain the same.

Wimmas wrote: Okay, all weight measurements is when cooked

Training anywhere from 07:00 - 11:00 (Sometimes it would be after my first meal, depending on my schedule for the day)
BCAA 5g before and 5g after workout

Meal 1 (12:30)

I first steam the white, skinless potato in the microwave, then I fry the chicken breast fillet and steamed potato in a pan with 15ml extra virgin olive oil with a little bit of garlic and herb seasoning (It tastes much better than dry, grilled chicken or plain steamed potato). The veggies are also steamed. So in this meal, there are protein, fat and carbs and it's my first meal after working out earlier in the day

150g chicken fillet (33/-/4.
250g white potato, skinless (4.8/53/0.2)
100g broccoli/mixed veg (2.5/9/0.6)
1 multivitamin
1 flax seed capsule

Meal 2 (15:30)

80g Whey Isolate (72/0.8/0.16)
25g Macadamia nuts, raw, unsalted (2/3.25/19)
1 Apple (-/23/-)
1 flax seed capsule

Meal 3 (17:30)

100g Lean mince (22.6/-/
100g Brown rice (3/23/1)
1 flax seed capsule

This is more or less my diet on training days, sometimes the quantities change with the varying sizes/weight of the apples, potatoes, mixed veg and chicken! The other foods remain the same.

as mentioned mate, you total calorie intake is too low. An individual with your weight, height and who trains 4 times a week (classified as moderately active) should be consuming your body weight in pounds X 13 calories to effect weightloss. A very simple way to calculate this is by multiplying your weight in pounds by 13 calories.

Alternatively, just plug in figues to the following formula


0.20 (66 + (13.7 x weight in Kg) + (5 x height in cm) - (6.8 x age in years)) X 1.6)

By dropping your calories too low, you will lose both fat and muscle and ultimately slow down the fat burning process. Also, if you are dropping calorie intake even further on non-training days, then perhaps look at running a one day calroie surplus, (say 1.25XBMR), when you doing a leg day to keep your metabolism firing.

And you need to be eating about 5-6 meals a day. Everytime you eat you set your metabolism off to start working - to digest your food. Eat lots of greens as this helps to make the metabolism work harder as it is more difficult to digest. Read the dieting 101 stickies on this forum bro. You will get a better understanding. I would add in one or two meals before bed. Say one at 8 and pre bed shake.

GSP wrote:

Wimmas wrote: Okay, all weight measurements is when cooked

Training anywhere from 07:00 - 11:00 (Sometimes it would be after my first meal, depending on my schedule for the day)
BCAA 5g before and 5g after workout

Meal 1 (12:30)

I first steam the white, skinless potato in the microwave, then I fry the chicken breast fillet and steamed potato in a pan with 15ml extra virgin olive oil with a little bit of garlic and herb seasoning (It tastes much better than dry, grilled chicken or plain steamed potato). The veggies are also steamed. So in this meal, there are protein, fat and carbs and it's my first meal after working out earlier in the day

150g chicken fillet (33/-/4.
250g white potato, skinless (4.8/53/0.2)
100g broccoli/mixed veg (2.5/9/0.6)
1 multivitamin
1 flax seed capsule

Meal 2 (15:30)

80g Whey Isolate (72/0.8/0.16)
25g Macadamia nuts, raw, unsalted (2/3.25/19)
1 Apple (-/23/-)
1 flax seed capsule

Meal 3 (17:30)

100g Lean mince (22.6/-/
100g Brown rice (3/23/1)
1 flax seed capsule

This is more or less my diet on training days, sometimes the quantities change with the varying sizes/weight of the apples, potatoes, mixed veg and chicken! The other foods remain the same.

as mentioned mate, you total calorie intake is too low. An individual with your weight, height and who trains 4 times a week (classified as moderately active) should be consuming your body weight in pounds X 13 calories to effect weightloss. A very simple way to calculate this is by multiplying your weight in pounds by 13 calories.

Alternatively, just plug in figues to the following formula


0.20 (66 + (13.7 x weight in Kg) + (5 x height in cm) - (6.8 x age in years)) X 1.6)

By dropping your calories too low, you will lose both fat and muscle and ultimately slow down the fat burning process. Also, if you are dropping calorie intake even further on non-training days, then perhaps look at running a one day calroie surplus, (say 1.25XBMR), when you doing a leg day to keep your metabolism firing.

Well said bro - +1

I've read the sticky's and I don't want to eat 5-6 meals a day, I prefer 3 and in an eating window, like I said earlier, I'm doing intermittent fasting cause it suits my schedule and eating habits just fine! So I want to consume all my calories in 3 meals. My metabolism does not change whether I eat 6 meals or 3 a day. Recent studies have shown that the 6 meal a day thing speeding up your metabolism is bullshit, but I don't wanna go into that now or start an argument. All I know is whether I eat 6 meals or whether I eat 3 a day, I still shit twice a day!

Now, for the macros. What's so confusing is one guy tells you that you need x amount of protein for body weight in pounds, the other guy tells you x amount per lean body pound and same with fats and carbs. Other guys tell me to just follow a ratio, start off with 40/20/20 and work from there. So to simplify this, if I just go with the 40/20/20 ratio, here's what I get!

Maintenance = 2200 calories
Fat loss = 2200 - 20% = 1760 calories

Protein and carbs:

1760 x 0.4 = 704 each
704/4.184 = 168g protein and 168g carbs

Fats:

1760 x 0.2 = 352
352/9.2 = 38g

Conclusion:

If I eat 20% under maintenance with a 40/40/20 ratio I need 168g protein/168g carbs/38g fats. Is this correct?

I think I will follow your advice on the caloric surplus on leg day!

Two last questions:

1) Is it needed to adjust calorie intake on off days vs training days?
2) Am I correct in adding the fats from all my food to the 38g or does one just count the healthy fats such as those that come from olive oil, nuts etc? (It wouldn't make a lot of sense to only count those fats, cause your calories won't add up accurately?)

Thanks guys, I appreciate and value the advice and opinions

Wimmas wrote: I've read the sticky's and I don't want to eat 5-6 meals a day, I prefer 3 and in an eating window, like I said earlier, I'm doing intermittent fasting cause it suits my schedule and eating habits just fine! So I want to consume all my calories in 3 meals. My metabolism does not change whether I eat 6 meals or 3 a day. Recent studies have shown that the 6 meal a day thing speeding up your metabolism is bullshit, but I don't wanna go into that now or start an argument. All I know is whether I eat 6 meals or whether I eat 3 a day, I still shit twice a day!

Now, for the macros. What's so confusing is one guy tells you that you need x amount of protein for body weight in pounds, the other guy tells you x amount per lean body pound and same with fats and carbs. Other guys tell me to just follow a ratio, start off with 40/20/20 and work from there. So to simplify this, if I just go with the 40/20/20 ratio, here's what I get!

Maintenance = 2200 calories
Fat loss = 2200 - 20% = 1760 calories

Protein and carbs:

1760 x 0.4 = 704 each
704/4.184 = 168g protein and 168g carbs

Fats:

1760 x 0.2 = 352
352/9.2 = 38g

Conclusion:

If I eat 20% under maintenance with a 40/40/20 ratio I need 168g protein/168g carbs/38g fats. Is this correct?

I think I will follow your advice on the caloric surplus on leg day!

Two last questions:

1) Is it needed to adjust calorie intake on off days vs training days?
2) Am I correct in adding the fats from all my food to the 38g or does one just count the healthy fats such as those that come from olive oil, nuts etc? (It wouldn't make a lot of sense to only count those fats, cause your calories won't add up accurately?)

Thanks guys, I appreciate and value the advice and opinions

Quick question. When you calculated your BMR using the katch-macardie method did you make allowances for calorie lost due to exercise and normal body functioning. You would structure your calorie deficit by running a 20% deficit of your BMRX1.6 if you are training four to five times a week. As mentioned, I feel that you should be cutting at around 2k but I may be mistaken.

In response to your questions, I believe this is goal dependent. If you are keen on running a steady calorie deficit of say 500 cals, then I would not drop calorie intake on off days. If you are looking to drop calories on off days, usually by manipulating carb intake, then I would recommend running a calorie surplus on at least 1-2 days. Its entirely up to you. I am cutting at the momenent and i cycle my carbs. Moderate days (when working csmall muscle groups), I condsume 2500 cals; non-workout/cardio only days, I drop to 2300 cals, and on big body group days 9legs and chest/back) I run a calorie surplus of 2750 calories. I do this by manipulating carb intake and over a 7 day period, i have three moderate days (running a deficit of 20%), two low days and tow high days.

Eat 1 gram of protein per pound of lean mass. Nothing wrong with IF. Try and adjust your eating window so you are training fasted. That will maximise fatloss. Id have a cheat day on one of your off days, get your metabolism going

how old are u wimmas, if i may ask?

I'm 22

Some great info GSP. That is exactly what I'm aiming for, cycling carbs - more on training days, less on off days. I will definitely add a cheat day once a week, but still do it in an eating window.

I multiplied the BMR with 1.4 and not 1.6 cause so many different sources of information give different figures for activity level, so I wasn't sure and just multiplied by 1.4.

I will incorporate 20-30min moderate cardio such as brisk walks on the treadmill with an incline or on a stationary bike.

My daily activities:

- Riding my bicycle to campus (+- 1km to campus)
- Walking around on campus, but not much seeing that I do stop near my classrooms
- Weight training Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri and I'm thinking of including Saturdays too so I can hit my chest twice a week as it's a weak point.

1g protein per lean pound would mean I need to consume 125g protein a day, which is less than I currently take in. See what I mean with the different opinions on protein intake?

Wimmas wrote: I'm 22

Some great info GSP. That is exactly what I'm aiming for, cycling carbs - more on training days, less on off days. I will definitely add a cheat day once a week, but still do it in an eating window.

I multiplied the BMR with 1.4 and not 1.6 cause so many different sources of information give different figures for activity level, so I wasn't sure and just multiplied by 1.4.

I will incorporate 20-30min moderate cardio such as brisk walks on the treadmill with an incline or on a stationary bike.

My daily activities:

- Riding my bicycle to campus (+- 1km to campus)
- Walking around on campus, but not much seeing that I do stop near my classrooms
- Weight training Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri and I'm thinking of including Saturdays too so I can hit my chest twice a week as it's a weak point.

1g protein per lean pound would mean I need to consume 125g protein a day, which is less than I currently take in. See what I mean with the different opinions on protein intake?

Ok mate, according to my calculations your TDEE will be:

TDEE = (66 + (13.7 x 72.5) + (5 x 169 ) - (6.8 x 22)) X 1.6)
= approximately 2200

Therefore your should be cutting on 2200 calories if my calculations are correct.

Protein intake should ideally be 1,6g per pound of body weight.
=255g

Carbs = bodyweight in pounds X1.25 = 200g carbs

Fat intake = 42g

So on moderate days, p=255; carbs=200 and fats=42

On high days id keep protein and fat constant and increase carbs intake by 25% (255X1.25)
on low days id drop carbs by 25% (255X0.75)

This is generally a recomp diet which focuses on losing bodyfat while maintaining and even increasing lbm, hence you can see that the macronutrient requirements per meal is high. This can obviously be adjusted by lowing protein and increasing fats.

That's a lot of food. My height is 169cm if that makes a difference (you said 175cm)

To eat that amount of food will also be costly, my student budget won't really allow for that, especially the protein. Carbs and fat would be easier!

Isn't 1.6 quite high?

Wimmas wrote: That's a lot of food. My height is 169cm if that makes a difference (you said 175cm)

To eat that amount of food will also be costly, my student budget won't really allow for that, especially the protein. Carbs and fat would be easier!

Isn't 1.6 quite high?

sorry mate, adjusted in the calculation. Yeah, i added an addendum stating that this is a recomp diet and focuses on maintaining lean muscle whilst only dropping bodyfat. If you read DJ's sticky he makes explicit that we can drop more calories well below maintenance and we will lose weight. However, this will mostly be water and muscle, and you may only make mionor changes to your overall bodyfat percentage, which is obviously not ideal.

As mention, you can tweak your macros and possibly drop your protein intake to a more suitable level, but this needs to be offset my either an increase in carbs/fats to ensure that tour not running too much of a deficit. due to budgetary limitations, you should ideally increase your healthy fat intake to offset any reduction in carbs/protein. However, I would still suggest that you get hold of DJ who will be able to construct a diet for you based on your body stats, goals and budget and I am sure you will be more than happy with the end result.

In terms of the 1.6 ratio, you are training four times a week, riding your bike five times a week, walking to classes and seeking to incorporate cardio in your regime. I would say that 1.6 is not high at all given your levels of activity.

Firstly, congratulations for tackling your fat loss journey by counting calories.

What is your goal weight and what timeline are you looking at?

I calculate your BMR at 1800 cals and your TEE (conservative) at 2700. As such, I would target 2200 on training days (500 cal deficit) and 1800 on non training days. A cumulative 3500 cal deficit a week should result in a lb of loss a week.

A few broad views on weight loss which I applied with good results:

1) Allow yourself enough time to drop the fat. Just look at those contestants on the TV series "Big Loser". Huge deficits over a short timeline lead to stretchmarks and excessive loose skin. Skinnyfat should not be the desired body composition.

2)Apply a dieting regime that is sustainable over a period of time. You may have to sacrifice doing things 100% optimally in order to achieve it, but consistency is key. Allow yourself a cheat meal once a week, this not only keeps you sane, but also replenishes glycogen stores.

3)Intense weight training sessions lifting heavy

4)Try and include some cardio. Besides the general health benefits that cardio provides, I also personally use this to provide a caloric buffer on the days you may need it.

5)Plan ahead. If you have a braai or function looming, start prepping by increasing your deficit by an extra 200 cals a day a few days before hand. That way those few extra beers etc can be catered for without blowing your diet too badly

6)Create capacity for extra quality macro cal's. Small things like switching from full cream milk to 2%, swopping sugar for low cal sweetner allow you to flex your macro's.

7)Change it up. Especially applicable when you hit plateau's. I got stuck at the same weight for a number of weeks and after some research upped my carb's for two weeks and the weight started dropping again. Did same at another time where dropping carb's and upping fats worked.

8)Trial and error. What works for one does not necessarily mean it will work for you. Try different approaches, eat more frequently, eat less frequently, flex the macro's etc. until you find that sweet spot that delivers the best results for you and your lifestyle.

Good luck on your journey.