Carb Back Loading

Morning Guys,

This is more aimed at the experienced nutritional guys out there and anyone with experience.

Has anyone tried the Carb Back Loading approach as advocated by John Kiefer, and practiced by some of the strongest guys in the business?

Curious to hear more real work feedback on it.

hahaha glad to see I'm not the only one relatively new to this concept.

I'll be the guinea pig then and let you know how it all goes.

Just had a look at it and to my understanding its basically no carbs until post workout from then on you can basically eat an ice cream truck. Haven't seen a link to a single study justifying all his claims but looking forward to seeing what sort of results you get off this.

I managed to get the ebook from a friend in the US who uses the CBL approach with good results to date.

Effectively uses optimal times for training and eating to maximise strength and muscle gains with body fat loss.

I need to read the book again to fully understand some of the science behind the principles, but it's definitely one of the most cited nutritional standpoints I've read before. Although I haven't checked out the cited research as yet.

Will get it going this week hopefully and do my best to keep some records on it.

What's the ebook called and author?

It's called Carb Back Loading - by John Kiefer.

A lot of information via articles and forums can be found on www.dangerouslyhardcore.com

loved his article on cross-fit hahahaha

CHAPEL wrote: loved his article on cross-fit hahahaha

hahaha that was funny!

I posted it on Evo the other day. Several xshitters got a little upset

Finished the carb depletion phase and got the body into ketosis for a few days which was pretty easy when following 5/3/1 and some HIIT.

Dropped just over 4kgs in depletion phase, training weights continued to get heavier, still trained fasted as well.

Last night was my first carb back load, pretty hard going to eat enough. Smashed approximately 700 grams of carbs, 100 grams of protein and a very limited amount of fat.

Strongman training this afternoon should be great having so much carbs in me.

Evo dam 700g of carbs your a monster!! I feel sick of just eating 300g of carbs on my carb up day and powerless the next day when im out of keto.

Hope it works for you

Byron182 wrote: Evo dam 700g of carbs your a monster!! I feel sick of just eating 300g of carbs on my carb up day and powerless the next day when im out of keto.

Hope it works for you

Helps being a previous fat bastard, stomach can handle a lot. Now at about 105 at 14%

All those carbs were high gi as well, that's what the plan calls for. Makes it a bit easier

Really interesting approach, DC Evo has your endurance taken a hit at all with the new diet ? By that are you still able to maintain a momentum during weight training ?

Also do you do and light cardio to assist in fat loss and how has carb back impacted it ? Im subscribed looks to be very promising ps you're not on cycle atm are you ?

aspoester wrote: Really interesting approach, DC Evo has your endurance taken a hit at all with the new diet ? By that are you still able to maintain a momentum during weight training ?

Also do you do and light cardio to assist in fat loss and how has carb back impacted it ? Im subscribed looks to be very promising ps you're not on cycle atm are you ?

I've been training in a fasted state with very low carbs anyway for the last 10 weeks or so, so for me the adaptation onto Carb Back Loading was very easy.

A lot of people struggle training fasted or while on keto because they're so used to being carbed up, but I haven't had any issues.

I normally smash my 5/3/1 program in the mornings but have clients soon after so leave my cardio till the evening. My cardio is never light either. Always HIIT. Be it prowler, sleds, farmers walks, overhead carries, battling ropes etc. Short, sharp, fast. Never more than 20 mins including recovery times.

Only exception will be a Saturday (im off now) where I'll hit a big session of the above as a conditioning/strength workout.

Oh and no not on cycle and yet to do one. Would like to at some point but baby due in a few weeks and manic with work so timing isn't right.

I'll get to see more next week how carb back loading impacts my training, as that will be the first week of fat/proteins during the day and back load of an evening.

Do you CBL after every workout?

Stanabolic wrote: Do you CBL after every workout?

Essentially the answer is yes. Every evening.

At the moment I'm still fine tuning the process and seeing how my body responds.

For me I'll do the following:

Mon - Heavy upper body am, HIIT pm - Big CBL
Tues - Heavy lower body am, - Moderate CBL
Wed - Rest day/active recovery - zero carb day
Thurs - Heavy upper body am, HIIT pm - Big CBL
Fri - Heavy lower body am - Big CBL
Sat - Strongman conditioning - moderate CBL
Sun - Rest day/active recovery - zero carb day

looks pretty interesting..

mini hijack:

I was driving past the gym the other day when you walked in (sounds kak creepy) was in a rush but it looks pretty awesome from what I could see hey..

CHAPEL wrote: looks pretty interesting..


mini hijack:

I was driving past the gym the other day when you walked in (sounds kak creepy) was in a rush but it looks pretty awesome from what I could see hey..

At the moment, from the outside in, it looks too good to be true BUT there's some good people I know and trust who have used with great results. Essentially and evolved version of IF. The science behind it goes over my head still.


Cheers mate...not as creepy as the guys who just stand at the window and stare in for minutes on end!!! You look at them and they just carry on staring hahahaha nut jobs!!!

DC EVO. Thanks for the great thread. Just a question. Are you training weights fasted in the a.m. What is your post workout meal. Is it protein +fat and u leave all the carbs for the evening. I started reading up on this since you first brought this strategy to my attention and it advises against whey pwo as it spikes insulin too much. So my plan is to have a cup of black coffee at 5am and do max ot followed by maxot or hiit cardio. Then an hour later have a postworkout meal of P+F. Is this correct? Also how did you decide that you need 700g carbs on your CBL
Cheers
Thanks bro

ice-rip wrote: DC EVO. Thanks for the great thread. Just a question. Are you training weights fasted in the a.m. What is your post workout meal. Is it protein +fat and u leave all the carbs for the evening. I started reading up on this since you first brought this strategy to my attention and it advises against whey pwo as it spikes insulin too much. So my plan is to have a cup of black coffee at 5am and do max ot followed by maxot or hiit cardio. Then an hour later have a postworkout meal of P+F. Is this correct? Also how did you decide that you need 700g carbs on your CBL
Cheers
Thanks bro

Cheers

I get up at 5.30, have 500mg caffeine, about 1 tablespoon of heavy whipping cream, 10g whey isolate.
I train anywhere between 9am and 11am start. My pre-workout shake is 500-800mg caffeine, 10g whey iso, 1 tbsp whipping cream and 5g creatine.....there are different protocols for "strength accumulation" and "density bulking".
I don't have anything during training...pwo shake looks like this: 400mg caffeine, 20g whey iso, 5g leucine, 5g creatine. There are a few other things that they recommend in the shake but i haven't selected those based on financial reasons and ease of availability in SA.

For the rest of the day I have a keto style food intake, and then from 6 or 7pm when I get in I hit the High GI carbs, some protein and keep fat on the lower side (although the fat part doesn't really matter)

There's a table that comes with the CBL book that correlates weight lost, during the 10day depletion phase, and how many grams of carbs you should be aiming to take in over the course of the evening. My target is approximately 900 grams.

The 10 day depletion is also for other reasons, but would need to read through the details again to remember exactly why.

Hope this helps

It does yes thanks bro. So u don't recommend completely fasted training and believe the whey iso will have benefit. From what I read it will spike insulin or is that con far outweighed by pro it brings by countering catabolism that fasted lifting will bring. Would one experience more fat loss going completely fasted at 5am or doing the 10g iso whey and then 20g pwo. Do u then do a keto meal an hour later. Thanks again

ice-rip wrote: It does yes thanks bro. So u don't recommend completely fasted training and believe the whey iso will have benefit. From what I read it will spike insulin or is that con far outweighed by pro it brings by countering catabolism that fasted lifting will bring. Would one experience more fat loss going completely fasted at 5am or doing the 10g iso whey and then 20g pwo. Do u then do a keto meal an hour later. Thanks again

Up until now I had been doing completely fasted training, sometimes if the day ran away with me it was up to 18 hours fasted.

After reading CBL - there isn't a hard and fast rule for whether you remain fasted or add some fat and whey iso in before training.
The morning coffee with fats and iso is about prolonging the fat burning of ketosis while increasing free amino acids to spare muscle. It says there will be a small insulin increase with it but not enough to derail fat burning. Especially with the inclusion of fats.

If you're training at 5am then go completely fasted i would recommend, just smash some caffeine. PWO would include 20-40g dextrose as well for that time of day.

As I mentioned, there are different protocols for various training times, goals etc.

Yes, after that training you go back to keto.

DC EVO wrote:

ice-rip wrote: DC EVO. Thanks for the great thread. Just a question. Are you training weights fasted in the a.m. What is your post workout meal. Is it protein +fat and u leave all the carbs for the evening. I started reading up on this since you first brought this strategy to my attention and it advises against whey pwo as it spikes insulin too much. So my plan is to have a cup of black coffee at 5am and do max ot followed by maxot or hiit cardio. Then an hour later have a postworkout meal of P+F. Is this correct? Also how did you decide that you need 700g carbs on your CBL
Cheers
Thanks bro

Cheers

I get up at 5.30, have 500mg caffeine, about 1 tablespoon of heavy whipping cream, 10g whey isolate.
I train anywhere between 9am and 11am start. My pre-workout shake is 500-800mg caffeine, 10g whey iso, 1 tbsp whipping cream and 5g creatine.....there are different protocols for "strength accumulation" and "density bulking".
I don't have anything during training...pwo shake looks like this: 400mg caffeine, 20g whey iso, 5g leucine, 5g creatine. There are a few other things that they recommend in the shake but i haven't selected those based on financial reasons and ease of availability in SA.

For the rest of the day I have a keto style food intake, and then from 6 or 7pm when I get in I hit the High GI carbs, some protein and keep fat on the lower side (although the fat part doesn't really matter)

There's a table that comes with the CBL book that correlates weight lost, during the 10day depletion phase, and how many grams of carbs you should be aiming to take in over the course of the evening. My target is approximately 900 grams.

The 10 day depletion is also for other reasons, but would need to read through the details again to remember exactly why.

Hope this helps

Edit this guys - I don't have 10g whey iso in my coffee. I just have the cream.

Just a quick update....loving CBL!

Keto style during the day is easy, shoveling in carbs at night is very rewarding too

I have a starting point BF% wise to work from as well now.

After 12 weeks on my intermittent fasting protocol and 531 training plan - my body fat dropped from 19.2% (jackson pollock 7 site measurement with harpenden calipers) to 12.5%. Oh and my weight has stayed the same.
No fat burners, no steroids, just a lot of good eating and solid training.

So my starting point is 106kg (approx) and 12.5% body fat.

Let's see how CBL affects these figures.

Awesome stuff DC. Can you post up your diet please bro

ice-rip wrote: Awesome stuff DC. Can you post up your diet please bro

My diet while on Renegade was

up at 6am - 500ml water

Train at 10 or 11ish. 531 Program

PWO 30g BCAA, 50g Dextrose

Across the afternoon I would normally eat the equivalent of 100g protein in various forms, with salad and lots of olive oil.

5ish 20 mins of Prowler/Sprint work

7pm 500g red meat, healthy fats again, about 80-100g or carbs, be it rice, potato, wraps or pasta. Then normally some fruit and dark chocolate.
I would finish eating by 8pm. Then nothing again till 12pm the next day.

No rocket science, no real specific secrets.

Getting in approx 200g protein a day, 100g carbs and plenty of fats.

On my current CBL I'm eating more or less the same, but no carbs until 6pm then smashing them. About 500-800g worth of high gi.

On non training days I have zero carbs (max of 20g) and high fats with moderate protein.