Shorter cycles = better recovery + lasting gains??

Howzit guys,

Since my last cycle of deca and testoviron my recovery has no where near been that of adequate and so I've been doing a bit of reading up on shorter cycles.
I am not doing blast cycles as these in my mind contradict wat I am trying to achieve.
However looking at using the normal arsenal of short estered compounds ie prop, win, mast prop anavar win tbol etc
I am trying to see whether recovery after a 6-8 week cycle of short esters will improve recovery rate by a substantial degree.

Have any of you guys attempted these kind of cycles with any success?
And since short esters are being used can compounds like tren and npp be used or will they be just as suppressive as a longer deca cycle?

I was and in my mind will always prefer the longer cycles but looking at this as another option.

Cycle 1 - 6weeks
Win 1ml eod
prop 1.5ml eod
50mg proviron ED

I will be using PCT 2 with ovidrel instead of HCG.

Ay comments will be much apprciated!

My theory is that if you're close to looking like you want then there's no reason on earth to hit these uber long and harsh cycles.

Recovery on those short cycles are awesome and the transition from cycle to PCT to functioning normally is so seamless you hardly notice it.

Thanks for the reply Vega,

I am no where near waht I want to look like but I am also not willing to sacrifice my body to get there.

Thank you for that, I will be using these shorter cycles over the next few months and will keep you updated!

Cheers

I totally agree with Vega, short blitz cycles with short esters are beneficial for quick gains, less sides and better recovery. You don't have to wait weeks for compounds to kick in as well as the weeks waiting for the compounds to clear before PCT. This obviously only applies if recommended dosages are adhered to and are not too excessive.

I prefer to use only short esters these days and your prop/winny/prov cycle looks good to go. Like Vega says these cycles are more beneficial if you are near your goal physique with body-fat at a minimum. Then you can truely see the advantages of the hard, lean, striated muscle that short esters promote. Theres no reason why tren or npp can't be added to a short blitz cycle as long as the dosages are reasonable, the suppression won't be bad as long as test prop dosages are correct.

We need some sample short cycles...

Well, im running the following at the moment:

Week 1 - 8 Prop @ 150mg EOD
Week 1 - 8 Masteron @ 100mg EOD
Week 1 - 4 TBol @ 80mg ED
Week 5 - 8 Winstrol @ 40mg ED

Full PCT

week 1-8 test prop 75mg ED
week 1-8 tren ace 50mg ED
week 1-4 dbol 30mg ED
Week 5-8 winny 50mg ED
PCT plus clen

best cycle ive ever ran!!!

TF is tren ace the bad uncle that beats you in your sleep?

I'm doing an 6-8 week winnie oral only cycle, so i'll tell you the gains, oh also adding proviron at 60mg... Recovery with just be Nolva 20mg for 30 days, followed by Animal Stack 2

why the stak pump?

@dryden .... yuuuup! thats tren! fortunately i didn't experience a single side effect except the odd night sweat and just sweating a little more often. but that's it. loved tren. i cant wait to do a short test p, tren ace, superdrol cycle!!!

00pump wrote: I'm doing an 6-8 week winnie oral only cycle, so i'll tell you the gains, oh also adding proviron at 60mg... Recovery with just be Nolva 20mg for 30 days, followed by Animal Stack 2

Sorry to hijack. As a newbie I just want to ask the following:

Why winnie oral ONLY? Is this a cutting type cycle?
Why proviron without any Test injections?
Why the Animal stack 2?

Thanks in advance,
Roger!

dryden, going in for surgery in 6 weeks, down 10 kgs now, but starting to lose to much muscle mass, so using it just to stay anabolic, and due to my issue with aromatizing steroids, I want to see how body reacts just to single DHT compound steroid... I have done a similar cycle before, but I want to monitor it on a calorie controlled diet.

From nex year i'm doing a 6 month Primo E cycle at around 1000mg+ a week, kickstart with LP orals.

I wouldn't see the point for many people to do this cycle, and I wouldn't advise a cycle without test unless you have specific reasons, and if you do then you are normally at an advance stage with steroids and know exactly what you trying to achieve out of it.

roger wrote:

00pump wrote: I'm doing an 6-8 week winnie oral only cycle, so i'll tell you the gains, oh also adding proviron at 60mg... Recovery with just be Nolva 20mg for 30 days, followed by Animal Stack 2

Sorry to hijack. As a newbie I just want to ask the following:

Why winnie oral ONLY? Is this a cutting type cycle?
Why proviron without any Test injections?
Why the Animal stack 2?

Thanks in advance,
Roger!

Winnie only because of what explained in previous post. Also because there is not much difference between Winnie Oral and Injectable expect the pain in the ass (excuse my phun) to inject ED. The only beneifit I can see is skipping the first pass through of the liver, however a steroid that contains a 17 methyl group is going to hammer you liver regardless of 1st or second pass through.

I can't use test over 100mg a day without gyno sides, regardless of AI or AntiE.

I find the animal stack 2 gets my libido back, where as the Nolva my test levels come back normal however libido is still low.

00pump wrote:

roger wrote:

00pump wrote: I'm doing an 6-8 week winnie oral only cycle, so i'll tell you the gains, oh also adding proviron at 60mg... Recovery with just be Nolva 20mg for 30 days, followed by Animal Stack 2

Sorry to hijack. As a newbie I just want to ask the following:

Why winnie oral ONLY? Is this a cutting type cycle?
Why proviron without any Test injections?
Why the Animal stack 2?

Thanks in advance,
Roger!

Winnie only because of what explained in previous post. Also because there is not much difference between Winnie Oral and Injectable expect the pain in the ass (excuse my phun) to inject ED. The only beneifit I can see is skipping the first pass through of the liver, however a steroid that contains a 17 methyl group is going to hammer you liver regardless of 1st or second pass through.

I can't use test over 100mg a day without gyno sides, regardless of AI or AntiE.

I find the animal stack 2 gets my libido back, where as the Nolva my test levels come back normal however libido is still low.

Thanks for the explanation. Last question, whats the recommended dosage for Oral Winstrol (10mg) per day?

Thanks again,
Roger!

No 50mg a day.. You wasting your time with less, and I don't realy see the point going higher, without adding major stress to your body..

00pump wrote: I'm doing an 6-8 week winnie oral only cycle, so i'll tell you the gains, oh also adding proviron at 60mg... Recovery with just be Nolva 20mg for 30 days, followed by Animal Stack 2

Hey pump - what liver support do you prefer? And how often?

SHot.

00pump wrote: ....From nex year i'm doing a 6 month Primo E cycle at around 1000mg+ a week....

Would love to hear what sides you experience. I had flashes of anxiety at times when Primo levels got a bit high(injection dates closer than intended). That was at 800mg/week.
Also the week it really starts to work for you.

00Pump why Stack 2 and not M-Stack, is Stack 2 better?

Rowan wrote:

00pump wrote: I'm doing an 6-8 week winnie oral only cycle, so i'll tell you the gains, oh also adding proviron at 60mg... Recovery with just be Nolva 20mg for 30 days, followed by Animal Stack 2

Hey pump - what liver support do you prefer? And how often?

SHot.

SAMe and essential.. 1 a day of each

jackrabbit1 wrote:

00pump wrote: ....From nex year i'm doing a 6 month Primo E cycle at around 1000mg+ a week....

Would love to hear what sides you experience. I had flashes of anxiety at times when Primo levels got a bit high(injection dates closer than intended). That was at 800mg/week.
Also the week it really starts to work for you.

Then i'll probabbly too, seems we get anxiety at similar doses on gear.

Koe007 wrote: 00Pump why Stack 2 and not M-Stack, is Stack 2 better?

Hmm, well pointless repeating what someone else has said.. So here is a copy and a paste.. I find the Animal Stack to be more effective as a PCT (to increase natural test) than to work on other properties of anabolism.

Q: What’s the difference between M-Stak and Stak?

A: We designed both the Stak and M-Stak to be "natural" anabolics. Yet each works in very different yet complementary way. In other words, you can use them separately, or "stacked" together.

Animal Stak is a natural hormone "enhancer". It works with your body to: (1) help "boost" key anabolic hormone levels and (2) enhance overall hormone function (such as improving the ratios of free to total testosterone). Stak, therefore, is a hormone modulator.

Animal M-Stak, on the other hand, works to help promote anabolism, not by manipulating hormone function, but by increasing important anabolic "processes", including protein synthesis, "nutrient partitioning" and nitrogen retention, all the while reducing muscle catabolism.

In short, Animal Stak can help with performance and strength. It can especially assist older athletes by helping to modulate hormone levels, which decline with age. Animal M-Stak, on the other hand, can help any lifter, but particularly the classic "hardgainer, by allowing him to gain lean mass and size more quickly and efficiently. It can help lifters on bulk looking to maximize lean muscle and minimize bodyfat, and help dieters hold on to precious lean mass.

Of course, you can combine the two to get the best of both worlds.

thanks for all the input guys any additional info is always a bonus!

My current plan is to do short cycles continuously.
ie: 6weeks on + 1-2weeks ester clearence + 4weeks PCT then 12weeks off and then repeat. All PCT's will be structured on PCT2 on this site but with the use of ovidrel as I feel it works a lot better for me.

Cycle 1.
6weeks
1.5ml prop eod
1ml win eod
50mg proviron ed.
+ PCT

Cycle 2.
6weeks
100mg prop,
75mg tren,
75mast prop eod
50mg proviron ed.
+ PCT

Cycle 3.
6weeks
150mg prop,
100mg npp eod
50mg proviron ed.
+ PCT

I am still deciding whether do swop around 2 and 3.
But my main question is with this type of cycling be less harmful to me?
besides the test and proviron as bases the main compounds are changing and so should keep the body guessing? EOD injections are going to be a bitch but i am keen to see results from them.

I am running a complex pct each time to ensure full recovery.
And one last thing - any of you got any tricks in reducing injection pain from the win?

Thanks a lot guys

If this works for you, you are fortunate. Maybe its youth on your side.
NPP/Tren etc took 5-7 weeks to start working on me.

The best results i have ever had was from 17 weeks onward with TestE/Primo .
Now im going to play with a never ending low dosage testE + primoE TRT-Type protocol with weekly injections and hcg.

Hey Novice

How about 6 weeks prop/mast prop/winny. I've been running this for a while and this last week just winny because I miscalculated dosages. Winny on it's own I find pretty hectic. I feel very dry and dehydrated, joints ache like hell all the time. 00pump I highly recommend getting some joint support meds and definately liver support. Even on Leglalon I've had a few liver cramps.

I'm starting some Anavar, Primo E and Mast Prop next week which I'm really looking forward to. It's going to be really interesting with no test. Haven't done that in a while!