Cycle Numero Uno (critiques, please?)

Greetings fellow boarders!

I’m 28 years old, 94kg, 12-15% bodyfat, been training hard for the past 3 years (5 days a week, each muscle group 2x a week) and making sure my diet is in check (3200 cals a day, 300g protein minimum; if I bump up my carbs much more I start getting fat!). In these past 3 years, to be honest, I’ve made pretty lame gains, so after about 6 months of um-ing and ah-ing, I’ve decided to run my first cycle.

I’ve decided to keep things simple and do a basic Test-cyp/D-bol cycle but I wanna make 100% sure I have all of my bases covered, since we all know that your first cycle is your best (so make it count!).

The protocol I have in mind is as follows (this is based on the beginner’s bulking cycle found on this very site):

Cycle:
Week 1-4: D-bol 30mg ED
Week 1-10: Test Cyp 250mg twice a week

PCT:
Week 13: Clomid 100mg ED
Week 14-16: HCG 500iu eod
Week 14-18: Nolvadex 20mg ED

I am gyno prone (I have small lumps from puberty, which I HATE) and really don’t want to make it any worse so I will keep Letro on hand in case I start experiencing symptoms (will keep the dose low to save my sex drive, joints and gains; 0.25-0.50mg EOD).

Critiques please?

Thanks guys, much appreciated!

Welcome bro! Hang around, lots of info here!!!!

Ok, formalities out of the way...your cycle looks solid man!

Yes, well done. U did some reading before hand. Great.
Wellcome.
Regards

Thanks a lot for the welcomes, guys, really been enjoying reading up on this forum the past couple of months, some really solid, no-bullshit info here. Happy to be a member!

What I'd really like to know though, is, do you chaps think that HCG will be necessary on such a mild cycle (I know it probably can't hurt at the low HCG doses I'll be using, I have read that higher doses can have some nasty sides). HCG seems to be a much-debated subject at the moment, some saying that it should be used as part of PCT and some advocating the use of it for two weeks (or more) on cycle). Also, I'm having a tough time deciding between Letro and Arimidex. They both have their pro's and cons, some say that A-dex will be just as effective in combating gyno as Letro, but with much less side effects. What would be you guys' take on that?

Thanks again!

HCG is a must on hard cycles. Long cycles it could be benneficial to use HCG. To get the t-axis up and running again. I like HCG and always use it in a post. I would not take hcg while on test cycle. Only during when ur running just anabolics with no test(which never the case)/

I like the letro, i also like a-dex. i think its personal preference, i wouldnt use both, but HCG,Kessar and clomid wil do the trick.

If u wer looking for a decent PCT. as u said ur afriad of test rebound.

Regards

The HCG thing. How is ur libido? that is normally ( imo) a way of looking if the hcg is needed. (still stating what i did ontop here). Some guys libido drop while on any cycle...(like mine). thats wer HCG could help with proviron at the last 2-3 weeks of the cycle.

Hope this makes ur options more clear. any1 can pitch in here if u think i missed something.

Regards

Thanks Romp3L, your points on HCG def make sense. I think maybe what I should do is just get 2 5000iu vials see how things go at the end of my cycle. I mean, it won't go to waste as I plan on obviously running a bigger stack next time round (maybe throw some deca on top of the Test Cyp and D-bol kickstart) and the HCG will undoubtedly come in handy then.

Letro is definitely cheaper, but I hear what you're saying about personal preference, it seems the only way to know for sure (same with the HCG story) is to see how your body reacts and work accordingly which is exactly why it's best to keep a first cycle as simple as possible.

Devildriver wrote: Thanks a lot for the welcomes, guys, really been enjoying reading up on this forum the past couple of months, some really solid, no-bullshit info here. Happy to be a member!

What I'd really like to know though, is, do you chaps think that HCG will be necessary on such a mild cycle (I know it probably can't hurt at the low HCG doses I'll be using, I have read that higher doses can have some nasty sides). HCG seems to be a much-debated subject at the moment, some saying that it should be used as part of PCT and some advocating the use of it for two weeks (or more) on cycle). Also, I'm having a tough time deciding between Letro and Arimidex. They both have their pro's and cons, some say that A-dex will be just as effective in combating gyno as Letro, but with much less side effects. What would be you guys' take on that?

Thanks again!

Well done on doing some research and deciding on a basic, simple cycle to start with.

There is no way you need to run HCG whilst on that cycle. It's short and mild, and you don't need to open up extra sides for nothing.

Imo, Letro works very well during the cycle at low doses. The side effects of Letro only become an issue when using high doses.

Good luck and let us know how it works for you.

shaunrsa wrote:

Devildriver wrote: Thanks a lot for the welcomes, guys, really been enjoying reading up on this forum the past couple of months, some really solid, no-bullshit info here. Happy to be a member!

What I'd really like to know though, is, do you chaps think that HCG will be necessary on such a mild cycle (I know it probably can't hurt at the low HCG doses I'll be using, I have read that higher doses can have some nasty sides). HCG seems to be a much-debated subject at the moment, some saying that it should be used as part of PCT and some advocating the use of it for two weeks (or more) on cycle). Also, I'm having a tough time deciding between Letro and Arimidex. They both have their pro's and cons, some say that A-dex will be just as effective in combating gyno as Letro, but with much less side effects. What would be you guys' take on that?

Thanks again!

Well done on doing some research and deciding on a basic, simple cycle to start with.

There is no way you need to run HCG whilst on that cycle. It's short and mild, and you don't need to open up extra sides for nothing.

Imo, Letro works very well during the cycle at low doses. The side effects of Letro only become an issue when using high doses.

Good luck and let us know how it works for you.

Thanks Shaun! If I left the HCG out then would my pct be fine like this?:
Day 106 - 112: Clomid 50mg 2x ED
Day 113 - 142: Nolvadex 20mg ED

What I'm looking at doing is keeping wither Letro or A-dex on hand just in case I start getting gyno symptoms, I won't run it all the way through the cycle unless it's absolutely necessary. Is that the correct way to do it? A lot of guys say just run the AI all the way through as a precaution.

My PCT calculator is on my other lap top, but it looks right. Maybe Pump or DJ can just check it. I run Letro at .2mg to .3mg every other day throughout the cycle. It definitely works best for me when I do this.

shaunrsa wrote: My PCT calculator is on my other lap top, but it looks right. Maybe Pump or DJ can just check it. I run Letro at .2mg to .3mg every other day throughout the cycle. It definitely works best for me when I do this.

Shaun, if I run the Letro at .2 or .25mg overy other day during my cycle, say I start day one when I do my first pin and take my first dbol, when do I stop? After mylast pin? Then just carry on with normal pct, Clomid 50mg 2x a day for 1 week then after that Nolva 20mg per day for 30 days?

As I don't run Dbol anymore, I start taking 2mg eod at the start of week 3, depending on the ester, (if I'm running Test prop I'll start taking it with my first pin) and I always run it till my last pin. After that it's PCT as normal.

As you are running Dbol from day one, I suggest you start @ .2mg EOD from day one.

Your first Test injection is also from the first day, obviously.

The test you run for the full cycle, pinning 1 x or 2 x week (as you prefer), hence the need to run the Letro for the full cycle.

The Dbol you take from day one and run it for 4 weeks as a kick start while waiting for your Test Cyp to kick in nicely. (You might want to taper it up to 50mg pd). But Dbol is quite harsh and hence the Letro from the start of the cycle.

If you feel tenderness in your nipples or start to bloat a bit (which is very possible with Dbol) I would up the dose slightly to .2mg /.3mg ED for as long as it takes for the tenderness and/or bloat to go away, then it's back to .2mg EOD.

.2mg EOD shouldn't give me any hectic sides though, hopefully? I know it might hurt my gains but definitely better to be safe than sorry. The bloat I can deal with as I know it will go away once the cycle is done; I'm shit scared of gyno though! I've seen guys recommending massive doses on other forums, something like 2.5mg daily which would def dry out the joints and hurt your gains.

I'd obviously have to bridge from my last pin up til day 1 of pct with the Letro though, right? If the test takes 3 weeks to clear outof my system I'll obviously still be in danger of developing gyno during that time. I'm also a bit concerned about the estrogen rebound, but surely .2mg EOD of the stuff (Letro) isn't enough to cause that?

Bump

u wont have an issue with estrogen rebound.thats stuff u have to worry post competitions etc...

The 2.5 mg pd doses are used by the guys trying to reverse gyno they already have. You definitely don't use those doses on cycle for prevention only.

Thanks a lot for the advice, guys! I should have everything this week, will do a cycle log for the other newbies to check out if anyone is thinking of doing a similar cycle. My final cycle will be as follows:

Cycle:
Week 1-10: Test Cyp 500mg/week
Week 1-4: Dbol 40mg ED
Week 1-13: Letro 0.2mg EOD

PCT:
Week 13: Clomid 100mg ED (50mg 2x per day, until box of 15 is finished)
Week 14-18: Nolva 20mg ED (will just carry on til a box of 30's is finished).

If any gyno flares up during Clomid, I'll continue the Letro at low doses and stop before starting the Nolvadex part of my pct.

Any extra critiques on this will be most welcome!
Thanks again!