BEGINNER CYCLE

GOING TO TRAIN EVEN HARDER AND GET DIET 100% ,SO WHEN STARTING CYCLE WILL BE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE AND READY ,GONNA STOP THE WINSTROL AFTER ONE WEEK



Just like to know if this cycle will be ok in few months times ,like to get it so long

WEEK 1 TO WEEK 9

Depotrone 250mg/week
Dianabol 20mg/day

WEEK 9 AND WEEK 11

Clomid 25mg/day

You'll do much better if you double up on both compounds but don't run the d-bol for longer than four weeks as it is liver toxic. I would run it as a 12 week cycle and then do a proper Doctari PCT (in pct section).

You need to remember that diet is everything and if that's not in order you won't see the result that you're looking for. You can speak to a guy by the name of DJ on the forum as he's the official guru on these matters.

Second Vega on all points:
- Double doses (Test Cyp 500mg / week and Dbol 40mg / day)
- Run cycle 12 weeks (Better gains)
- Run Dbol for 4 weeks (Liver toxicity)
- Your PCT protocol is wack. Get some HCG and run tamoxifen (instead of the clomiphene) for a few weeks after HCG usage
- Get a DJ diet (Now even I'm punting them )

i would ad decca to the mix!

week1-12 depo@500mgs
week1-12 deca@300mgs
week1-4 dbol@40mgs

Mcpump, I'm sure I read somewhere that bassmaster is over 40 and I've always been of the opinion that if your that age a nice test only cycle is the way to go. The problem is that Deca shuts you down quite heavily and it gets harder to recover the older you get.

vega5 wrote:

Mcpump, I'm sure I read somewhere that bassmaster is over 40 and I've always been of the opinion that if your that age a nice test only cycle is the way to go. The problem is that Deca shuts you down quite heavily and it gets harder to recover the older you get.

Substitute the Deca with Equi.

North_Boy1 wrote:

vega5 wrote:

Mcpump, I'm sure I read somewhere that bassmaster is over 40 and I've always been of the opinion that if your that age a nice test only cycle is the way to go. The problem is that Deca shuts you down quite heavily and it gets harder to recover the older you get.

Substitute the Deca with Equi.

Amen.

But since this is his first cycle pure test cycle will do wonders for him no need to experiment too much. 700 MGS of test 10- 14 weeks you will be loving life. Id frontload with test prop instead of dbol for 4 weeks and then let test E or test cyp do its job. After this you can get some HCG but you might get away with just clomid and kessar combo. of 4-5 weeks though a bit extended.

vega5 wrote:

Mcpump, I'm sure I read somewhere that bassmaster is over 40 and I've always been of the opinion that if your that age a nice test only cycle is the way to go. The problem is that Deca shuts you down quite heavily and it gets harder to recover the older you get.

I have run Deca for very long cycles and no hastles with libido.

Follow Doctari's advice in the PCT section. HCG throughout the cycle.

jackrabbit1 wrote:

vega5 wrote:

Mcpump, I'm sure I read somewhere that bassmaster is over 40 and I've always been of the opinion that if your that age a nice test only cycle is the way to go. The problem is that Deca shuts you down quite heavily and it gets harder to recover the older you get.

I have run Deca for very long cycles and no hastles with libido.

Follow Doctari's advice in the PCT section. HCG throughout the cycle.

I didn't say he shouldn't, but merely should be cautious as the older the get the harder it gets to recover 100%.

i dont know what his age is i just gave my opinion. it depends on his goal though. if its supose to be a bulking cycle i would add the deca.

Why take a risk and why even consider deca at all never mind his age:
I second vega on your opinion and second lesa on your cycle advise, +- 600/700mg test per week for 12 weeks, frontload with prop. I do however think the hcg is 1000000% necessary at that age. Throw it in around week 11 untill 1st week PCT.
Peace

Guys, it's his first cycle, so no Deca or EQ. A first cycle should always be test only, so one learns how they repond to the compound. One can Kickstart the cycle with Test prop but for a first cycle many find it easier to take orals to avoid multiple site injections (since they are not used to injecting themselves) so Dbol is often a better recommendation.

I personally think you guys are insane recommending as high as 700mg/week for a first cycle. 200mg to 500mg per weeks is more than enough for a first cycle. My first cycle was only 200mg a week of depotrone and had some of my best gains on that cycle.

I agree that HCG is absolutely necessary for a cycle at that age. You can run it all through the cycle or just at the end, starting after the last pin and running for 3/4 weeks (because the test will clear after 2). I run tamoxifen with the HCG and then 3/4 weeks after it. Alternatively you can follow Doctari's PCT to the letter since alot of guys are having success with that.

Inja wrote:

Guys, it's his first cycle, so no Deca or EQ. A first cycle should always be test only, so one learns how they repond to the compound. One can Kickstart the cycle with Test prop but for a first cycle many find it easier to take orals to avoid multiple site injections (since they are not used to injecting themselves) so Dbol is often a better recommendation.

I personally think you guys are insane recommending as high as 700mg/week for a first cycle. 200mg to 500mg per weeks is more than enough for a first cycle. My first cycle was only 200mg a week of depotrone and had some of my best gains on that cycle.

I agree that HCG is absolutely necessary for a cycle at that age. You can run it all through the cycle or just at the end, starting after the last pin and running for 3/4 weeks (because the test will clear after 2). I run tamoxifen with the HCG and then 3/4 weeks after it. Alternatively you can follow Doctari's PCT to the letter since alot of guys are having success with that.

well my first cycle was one sust per week as well but i was like 22. This dude is over 40 but ok yea 700 may be a bit heavy but at that age 500 mg would be a must.And yea im 29 and I did come off a test cycle with only kessar and clomid with really good results but at 40 I would agree with HCG. You dont ALWAYS need HCG especially under 30 years of age. I used to follow the HCG protocol now after this last cycle I will do my PCT without it. Mind you I am almost sure that the AI will make your recovery so much easier and faster.This was the first cycle i ran an AI right through. And if you can limit estrogen as much as possible you not going to feel like a little bitch after that test comes out the system.

Lesa wrote:

Inja wrote:

Guys, it's his first cycle, so no Deca or EQ. A first cycle should always be test only, so one learns how they repond to the compound. One can Kickstart the cycle with Test prop but for a first cycle many find it easier to take orals to avoid multiple site injections (since they are not used to injecting themselves) so Dbol is often a better recommendation.

I personally think you guys are insane recommending as high as 700mg/week for a first cycle. 200mg to 500mg per weeks is more than enough for a first cycle. My first cycle was only 200mg a week of depotrone and had some of my best gains on that cycle.

I agree that HCG is absolutely necessary for a cycle at that age. You can run it all through the cycle or just at the end, starting after the last pin and running for 3/4 weeks (because the test will clear after 2). I run tamoxifen with the HCG and then 3/4 weeks after it. Alternatively you can follow Doctari's PCT to the letter since alot of guys are having success with that.

well my first cycle was one sust per week as well but i was like 22. This dude is over 40 but ok yea 700 may be a bit heavy but at that age 500 mg would be a must.And yea im 29 and I did come off a test cycle with only kessar and clomid with really good results but at 40 I would agree with HCG. You dont ALWAYS need HCG especially under 30 years of age. I used to follow the HCG protocol now after this last cycle I will do my PCT without it. Mind you I am almost sure that the AI will make your recovery so much easier and faster.This was the first cycle i ran an AI right through. And if you can limit estrogen as much as possible you not going to feel like a little bitch after that test comes out the system.

I actually disagree with the HCG statement and age. You need it more at a younger age to prevent damage when you older. At 40 most have had their children and fertility is not actually an issue, at 22 it is as you still would like to have kids.

Personally a PCT of a younger man should be more rigorous to prevent damage when they are older.

Older guys should still do a proper PCT, but I would say that a test only cycle at 40 a clomid and kessar PCT would be ok. Also depends on shrinkage he experiences as well, then HCG will come into play.

Also agree on dose, 250 - 400 is good for a first cycle esp if the user is older. High test doses over 40 might have adverse effects that a younger person would not get. This is a shock for the body as the natural levels have declined some what considering the age.

Look at the low end and stick to a single ester with a front load if you want. D-Bol at 20 - 30mg p/day IMO.

Seeing that I suggested all this first could somebody just give me some karma. I've been trying my ass off the last couple of days to give good advice and nobody is giving me karma. I saw on another thread that two guys got karma just for responding fast. That's just wrong!

vega5 wrote:

Seeing that I suggested all this first could somebody just give me some karma. I've been trying my ass off the last couple of days to give good advice and nobody is giving me karma. I saw on another thread that two guys got karma just for responding fast. That's just wrong!

There you go!

Netro wrote:

Lesa wrote:

Inja wrote:

Guys, it's his first cycle, so no Deca or EQ. A first cycle should always be test only, so one learns how they repond to the compound. One can Kickstart the cycle with Test prop but for a first cycle many find it easier to take orals to avoid multiple site injections (since they are not used to injecting themselves) so Dbol is often a better recommendation.

I personally think you guys are insane recommending as high as 700mg/week for a first cycle. 200mg to 500mg per weeks is more than enough for a first cycle. My first cycle was only 200mg a week of depotrone and had some of my best gains on that cycle.

I agree that HCG is absolutely necessary for a cycle at that age. You can run it all through the cycle or just at the end, starting after the last pin and running for 3/4 weeks (because the test will clear after 2). I run tamoxifen with the HCG and then 3/4 weeks after it. Alternatively you can follow Doctari's PCT to the letter since alot of guys are having success with that.

well my first cycle was one sust per week as well but i was like 22. This dude is over 40 but ok yea 700 may be a bit heavy but at that age 500 mg would be a must.And yea im 29 and I did come off a test cycle with only kessar and clomid with really good results but at 40 I would agree with HCG. You dont ALWAYS need HCG especially under 30 years of age. I used to follow the HCG protocol now after this last cycle I will do my PCT without it. Mind you I am almost sure that the AI will make your recovery so much easier and faster.This was the first cycle i ran an AI right through. And if you can limit estrogen as much as possible you not going to feel like a little bitch after that test comes out the system.

I actually disagree with the HCG statement and age. You need it more at a younger age to prevent damage when you older. At 40 most have had their children and fertility is not actually an issue, at 22 it is as you still would like to have kids.

Personally a PCT of a younger man should be more rigorous to prevent damage when they are older.

Older guys should still do a proper PCT, but I would say that a test only cycle at 40 a clomid and kessar PCT would be ok. Also depends on shrinkage he experiences as well, then HCG will come into play.

Also agree on dose, 250 - 400 is good for a first cycle esp if the user is older. High test doses over 40 might have adverse effects that a younger person would not get. This is a shock for the body as the natural levels have declined some what considering the age.

Look at the low end and stick to a single ester with a front load if you want. D-Bol at 20 - 30mg p/day IMO.

that makes no sense. If someone does PCT protocol without HCG and recovers with no problems why on earth would he use it? You do relaise that HCG has HEAVY side effects and you can never be sure if you get caught by it. Why take risks if you dont need to. People are all different people react differently to drugs what you need to recover from a cycle might not be needed by another. That whole deal with careful for later age i disagree completely with. Its like taking propecia just to make sure you dont lose hair even though you dont suffer from baldness. HCG is not a drug to be taken lightly my friend cause that alone can screw up your nuts for life.

And ofcourse the Age thing matters as well. Do you seriously think that a 40 or a 50 year old recovers the same as a 20 year old youngster. The two cannot even compare

Think you misunderstood what I was trying to get at. In no way was I saying that the older you get the less intense your PCT should be.
BUT, there are 2 discussions on this and mainly around the compounds used. Test alone does not cause shut down like a test and deca cycle for instance. If the cycle included a compound that shut you down bad I would definitely have leaned towards the complete PCT, meaning all compounds (HCG).

This is only a test cycle and HCG would not necessarily be needed, a good inclusion, but not necessary IMO.
Youngsters (23 - 30 odd) should try and make the see saw of hormones as smooth as possible, hence my advice to run maintenance HCG doses during cycle.

You are correct about the dangers, but used correctly and at low doses it should be good and advised by the good doc when he was around.

This is a first cycle with dosing along the lower range and that is what the advise was centered around. The fact that the user is 40 or over does impact advice, but Clomid and Kessar will cover what needs to be covered for hormonal restoration.

The playing field changes when you get older and the advice should fit the profile. As an example, estrogen becomes more prevalent in your older years and allot more difficult to control than when you are young.

This is all about opinion and its good that we challenge each other in a positive manner, that's how we learn.

Netro wrote:

Think you misunderstood what I was trying to get at. In no way was I saying that the older you get the less intense your PCT should be.
BUT, there are 2 discussions on this and mainly around the compounds used. Test alone does not cause shut down like a test and deca cycle for instance. If the cycle included a compound that shut you down bad I would definitely have leaned towards the complete PCT, meaning all compounds (HCG).

This is only a test cycle and HCG would not necessarily be needed, a good inclusion, but not necessary IMO.
Youngsters (23 - 30 odd) should try and make the see saw of hormones as smooth as possible, hence my advice to run maintenance HCG doses during cycle.

You are correct about the dangers, but used correctly and at low doses it should be good and advised by the good doc when he was around.

This is a first cycle with dosing along the lower range and that is what the advise was centered around. The fact that the user is 40 or over does impact advice, but Clomid and Kessar will cover what needs to be covered for hormonal restoration.

The playing field changes when you get older and the advice should fit the profile. As an example, estrogen becomes more prevalent in your older years and allot more difficult to control than when you are young.

This is all about opinion and its good that we challenge each other in a positive manner, that's how we learn.

I suppose it comes to knowing your body as well and how it reacts to certain drugs. There is a guy that i know at my gym who comes of his cycles only with a week of nolva. This guy is a machine hes 105 kgs with 6% bodyfat. He does not compete and his knowledge on AAS is very limited. But his body reacts so well to even small test dosages its amazing (makes me jelaous). For me i now know that I dont need HCG for test cycles only. This last cycle i did my PCT without it and it worked out perfect for me. Since it is a first cycle i guess adding HCG just to be sure would probably be a good idea.