First Cycle, 37m, Int/Adv Fitness & Shapeetic

Hello and Thanks (in Advance).

I'm new here, not new to Forums, contribute and very active on Watch, Cycling, Motorcycle forms. Often get frustrated by n00b's but always try and assist where I can - so thanks for helping me out.

History: I've pretty much been training my entire life, very active and intermediate to advance knowledge of training, and body/health and sports in general. I'm currently 37y.o, male and coming off a good 12 months training 5 day weights, plus 1-2 days cardio a week (cycling). I weigh 84.9kgs and I'm at 15% b/f. I'm 1.82m tall, and have good muscle base all round, great legs, great chest, good shoulders, ok back and ok arms, and have a good idea of what/where I need to focus. I'm ready for a 3-4 months training commitment, my diet is good, and ready for next level, I have a training partner who beats traffic by training early before work, so I am committed and I work for myself so I have enough freedom to train when and how much I need to. Long story short, there has never been a better time for me to start a cycle and up my game. Money/Cost is not a big problem, intention is to cycle something safe and mild. I've dabbled with cycles in my early 20's but it's so long ago- I can't really remember much except for it being winstrol, dianabol and sustanon...

I've done a bit of research and looking to try the Oral Primobolan & Proviron (Beginner lean mass cycle - Oral Only) as published here. ************************* REMOVED *************************

Question 1 - is that cycle still relevant, or is there anything new and hip?
Question 2 - I was thinking of doing some bloodwork before/after to have data for next more advance cycles? What to ask for, where to go?
Question 3 - axio labs and cost of this cycle - any comments on this staying inside the rules of this forum

Question 4 - Goal is to stay at 85kg's, but drop b/f and replace with muscle gains, increase vas and harden? Is this a reasonable expectation and what can I expect if I train hard, diet and stay on plan?

Thanks for helping!!!!

1: The cycle is still relevant, but for your goals there are better options and there are new products coming for guys like you. You want to stay the same weight but drop body fat and something like Fat Furnace Fifteen followed by the Anavar and Proviron cycle will be more effective and much cheaper.

2: I don't see how the data from blood tests are going to help you, but go for it if you want to. It's good to check recovery after PCT or finding a problem but other then that you don't need it at your level.

3: We don't discuss costs on this forum, so I removed the parts of your post that broke the rules. If you are going to invest so much in a cycle you are better off getting liquid-pharma products so that you know you get the quality you are paying for.

4: Dropping some body fat and gaining muscle is doable. It's not possible to predict how the cycle will work for you.

Thanks for quickly moderating my post, and also giving me some advice and direction.

In terms of this cycle, I have done a lot of research, and I'm also particularly interested in some of the other benefits of this stack, which seems to be things like libido enhancement, which I can do with, also, there seems to be some mental benefits with regards to focus, memory, anti depression, etc... Which I could use, and lastly, also some reports of sleep enhancement, which is something I struggle with..

With regards to the bloodwork, perhaps I didn't state that I would in future be interested in much more hardcore stacks and gains, so just thought it might be nice to have for data in the future? Where do I go for this, what tests do I ask for?

Lastly, I'm familiar with the source rules of the forum, but being new, my only options are finding something in the Internet, approaching someone at my gym? Or asking my GP straight out to prescribe? I really could use some advice on this, and would love to get my hands on LP but I'm not finding any options for that now...

Welcome to the forum. What are you goals? Gaining as much mass and strength as you can?

Get some GABA to help you sleep or ask your doc dor a melatonin script. Better to go that route first before you try anything stronger.

Get your GP to do your blood tests. Most Pathcare and Lancets won't let you just walk in and as =k for tests without a GP's referral. I can't refer you to who will.

TheV wrote: Lastly, I'm familiar with the source rules of the forum, but being new, my only options are finding something in the Internet, approaching someone at my gym? Or asking my GP straight out to prescribe? I really could use some advice on this, and would love to get my hands on LP but I'm not finding any options for that now...

Watch out. You have read the rules and this is bordering on breaking them. We do not give any advice on where to source steroids here or we are looking for trouble.

I appreciate the input and advice. I've been spending more and more every month on supplements, and have reached the point of diminishing returns. My training and natural progression has reached a plateau. I have the opportunity and the means to work towards a higher level and totally motivated to put in the hard work and whatever it takes over the next 18-24 months.

The Primo and Priviron stack seemed like a perfect starting cycle, as it not to hard on the side effects, and had many other advantages such as sleep, libido and mind properties which could address some of my current niggles. Next I would want to go into either a bulking or cutting cycle, depending on where I come out at the end of this cycle.

I'd like to stay at around 85-86kg's for now, but drop down to 12%bf, meaning I need to replace/build a crap load of muscle during this cycle in the 'place of the reduced bf..

Your goal from a first mild cycle is realistic. You can achieve that pretty easily if your diet is right. Supplements are mostly a waste of money. The only things worth the money are whey, creatine, maybe glutamine and a decent preworkout if you think you need it. Spend the rest of your budget on extra chicken breasts, lean steak and tuna.

If you've hit a plateau then that means you need to switch up your workout routine a bit or eat more. At your height you are far off from your genetic limit.

I've been spending thousands on supplements over the years, and although I've seen some acceptable results, I can't justify the investment vs. the result. I've seen some nice gains with Universal brand, and lately some of the Pharmafreak "test" supplements, but to be honest a lot of this might have been the placebo effect, linked with better eating and better workouts... I hear you on the creatine, whey and glutamine, I've good with these. In terms of pre-workout I've been a fan of No-explode (BSN), but this seems to have gotten weaker with every new "formula" - - any other options you suggest for pre?

I don't use pre-workouts so I won't advise on them.

Try Super Pump Max from Gaspari

USN's B4BOMB seems to work nicely for me ,not too much energy and decent pump + cost effective . Take a chance and ask a big guy at gym for advice since scamming on the internet is such a blatant problem. Sounds like you've reached some sort of natural peak ,in my opinion a test cycle can only be good for you if you do it right and if you are determined about bodybuilding + without the proper diet you are wasting your money and time. :evil:

Because I've been training early this winter, it's been difficult enough to get out of bed and the last thing I could handle so early in the morning is a Pre- just getting out of bed in the early and the cold was enough to motivate me... USN NO-Explode has always been amazing, but it seems the new formulas have just gotten weaker and weaker...

In terms of a cycle, I've always been super determined and motivated, so training hard and looking after my diet is not going to be a challenge.... the only reason i've avoided a test cycle is that i fucked up when i was young and dumb and didn't have the best experience on winstrol/sus/diana in my early 20's... but now I'm much older, and mentally capable of getting behind a good cycle and seeing it through...

I think AGE is also just catching up with me... so it's perfect timing to put in a good go...

I've placed my order, on the internet, for what is claimed to be LP products - let's see - i rolled the dice... Paid by EFT, have a mobile number, and the site wasn't on any of the scam watch lists.. who knows...

It also grinds me that one can buy alcohol over the counter, and bags of sugar and fat.... uncontrolled and perfectly legal.... but one is not allowed the choice to use well researched, well documented pharmaceuticals "legally"... doesn't make sense but any case..

If i was you then i'd do the beginners cycle or the intermediate cycle that are on this forum in the sample cycle section, depending on your goals. Also since you say that time is catching up with you i'd think a bit more test in the system can only benefit you imo :evil:

THANKS for all the feedback.

After doing some reading, thinking, research - i decided to give the Primo & Provi Cycle exactly as in the Sample Section a go. Managed to find a source (on the internet) for LP products - for what is basically a 2 month cycle the price was not cheap, but only slightly higher than what i would have paid for "test" supplements from the TOP brands...

I decided on this cycle because the low risks, but also some of the other benefits such as libido, better sleep and other bits and pieces that comes with it... it also seems a good platform for future cycles should i do my part...

Great choice just remember an oral only cycle can be bit tough on the kidneys to some ppl especially us elders,take some kidney support and drink a lot of water. Compared to these test activation supplements or whatever its called you now gonna spend your money on the real deal. i love primo :evil: