Beginner cycle - bulk, cut, both?

Stats: 73kg, 173cm (5'8"), 23 years

Just a bit of background, I started weight training over 2 years ago and was skinny-fat. Essentially I was really thin except for some belly fat. I kept switching between diets but decided to bulk after doing some research. I've gained a lot of size and strength since then but my belly fat has reached an unacceptable level due to being skinny-fat and not controlling my diet. I started cutting this year in June, but have hardly been training since then because I just started my honours degree and my car was stolen so I couldn't always get to gym. I'm very unhappy with where I am right now with this excessive belly fat and having lost a great deal of strength.

That being said, I want to do a cycle to help get my strength back up, although I still have a lot of reading to do. I'm a student with limited funds so I probably won't be able to afford more than 1 cycle for the near future. A friend has suggested I do a cycle in order to both gain muscle and lose fat but I'm not sure if it would be better to rather lose the fat and start a bulk cycle next year instead.

I've done some research about this and people seem to have mixed responses. What's my best option here?

Hey buddy

What is your body fat %?
I would advise that you hold up on the gear and instead focus on getting your diet and training in check. Check for the diet stickies on the site for a proper reference as to how to construct a proper diet to suit your goals.

dady murphy how's your diet currently and what did you try?
and cholesterol levels if you know?

Naftaly wrote: What is your body fat %?
I would advise that you hold up on the gear and instead focus on getting your diet and training in check. Check for the diet stickies on the site for a proper reference as to how to construct a proper diet to suit your goals.

Never been able to get it measured properly but judging from belly fat I don't think it's lower than 20%

What then after they are in check? No recommendation on what kind of cycle I should do?

endocrinology wrote: dady murphy how's your diet currently and what did you try?
and cholesterol levels if you know?

Still natural, haven't tried anything.

Honestly it's difficult to stay on an actual diet plan but I keep calories 10-20% below maintenance. I generally eat low carbs and high protein and get in a lot of meat, eggs, dairy, and vegetables. Also get in fish oil and multivitamins.

Don't know about cholesterol levels but I could get this measured if necessary. Blood pressure was fine when I went to the doctor recently.

Should also mention that I take 54mg Concerta to treat ADHD, and 1mg Risperidone to help with difficulty sleeping from the Concerta.

So what cycle did this friend suggest to loose fat and build muscle with what diet?

Well this is what he sent me:

10 week cycle:
1ml Sustanon 2x per week
3tabs Dbol first 4 weeks
3tabs Winstrol second 4 weeks
Proviron starts on week 9

PCT:
Tamoxifen 10-14days after cycle

Eating at maintenance with high protein.

And the DBOL / Winstrol and Tamoxifen are toxic to your liver.. Great idea...

Not lower than 20% bodyfat?


If I were you I would first drop that bodyfat by quite a bit before doing any cycle.
If you are eating at a constant deficit of 10 to 20% but not losing weight then you are not eating properly.

I myself have been a bit upset with my stomach fat so have been cutting for a bit and am now on a 22% calorie deficit and I am certainly dropping fat. The definition around my stomach has improved immensely and it just keeps getting better and better. I have been cutting for around 3 or 4 weeks now in total.

I have also incorporated Intermittent Fasting which helps me to manage my hunger and not overeat - it has quite a few other benefits too. Perhaps something to look into and consider.

If you are unable to follow a proper diet then I really do not think now is the right time for you to consider a cycle, not being able to eat properly will not yield optimum results and your money would have been wasted. Rather spend the money on gear when you are able to get the most out of it.

Also I have always seen people mention that you should have a bodyfat % of around 12 before you do a cycle.

Test, Dbols + 20% bodyfat = very high risk of estrogen gyno (bitch tits)

That is a really stupid idea to cycle with a high bodyfat.

The cycle if your bodyfat was in check should have looked something like this

Test
Week 1 - 12 @ 500mg PW
Dbols
Week 1 - 4 @ 40mg PD
Proviron
Week 1 - 16 @ 40mg ED
Winstrol
Week 10 - 16 @ 40mg ED
HCG in cycle
Week 4 - 16 @ 500iu PW

Your PCT

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/articles/info...9-post-cycle-therapy

PsyCLown wrote: Also I have always seen people mention that you should have a bodyfat % of around 12 before you do a cycle.

I see this mentioned often as well because increased BF% leads to higher levels of estrogen.

I'm still trying to understand the pros and cons to doing a cycle now to cut fat and gain strength vs doing a cycle to add mass once I have leaned out.

Your only 23, get a decent diet, slap the cardio and use a good fatburner, and you will be good to go in 4 weeks.

Oupa wrote: Your only 23, get a decent diet, slap the cardio and use a good fatburner, and you will be good to go in 4 weeks.

Definitely what I'm leaning towards because it seems like it will be more effective in the long run, although I see many people advising against using Concerta/Ritalin with a fat burner.

Dade Murphy wrote:

Oupa wrote: Your only 23, get a decent diet, slap the cardio and use a good fatburner, and you will be good to go in 4 weeks.

Definitely what I'm leaning towards because it seems like it will be more effective in the long run, although I see many people advising against using Concerta/Ritalin with a fat burner.

Stims on top of stims... Perhaps try dropping the concerta for a bit and see how much of a difference it makes when you replace it with other stims such as clen, ephedrine, albuterolor whatever it is you wish to use.

I feel soo much better about myself now that I have shed some of my fat and even before that everyone said I was crazy for thinking that I am fat. If I had to guess I would say I am around 10% BF now and want to drop a bit more. My lower 4 abs and nicely visible however my top two still have a bit of fat covering them although I will cut until the end of October so am sure I will be good by then!

Once your BF is low then get back into the gym and start training and bulking up again - body weight exercises will become a lot easier due to you being lighter. So you can do more dips, chins ups, pull ups, running etc.

Hey DM,

I can assure you that an otc fat burner will not cause any recognizable adverse interactions with your concerta.

I'm currently and have been on concerta 54mg for two years and I was on 20mg LA Ritalin during my studies. The past year I've got my diet and training on point and dropped from a bulky 94kg in May 2014 to 80kg 10% BF.

I can recommend some of the otc fat burners I've used, but to be very honest with you they are all pretty similar and it's about getting diet and training on point.

I started my fist cycle this week Anavar/Proviron. Which is pretty much what your goals are, leaning out and gaining strength.

Make clever choices bud, you've still got plenty of time.

Dade Murphy wrote:

Naftaly wrote: What is your body fat %?
I would advise that you hold up on the gear and instead focus on getting your diet and training in check. Check for the diet stickies on the site for a proper reference as to how to construct a proper diet to suit your goals.

Never been able to get it measured properly but judging from belly fat I don't think it's lower than 20%

What then after they are in check? No recommendation on what kind of cycle I should do?

endocrinology wrote: dady murphy how's your diet currently and what did you try?
and cholesterol levels if you know?

Still natural, haven't tried anything.

Honestly it's difficult to stay on an actual diet plan but I keep calories 10-20% below maintenance. I generally eat low carbs and high protein and get in a lot of meat, eggs, dairy, and vegetables. Also get in fish oil and multivitamins.

Don't know about cholesterol levels but I could get this measured if necessary. Blood pressure was fine when I went to the doctor recently.

Should also mention that I take 54mg Concerta to treat ADHD, and 1mg Risperidone to help with difficulty sleeping from the Concerta.

Do not stop the Concerta... Remember it is methylphenidate and not an amphetamine like adderall, dexedrine and vyvanse.. The Concerta cannot create 'more' dopamine like an amphetamine can + and an amphetamine adds a 'calming' effect due to its effects on seratonin. The Concerta will help prevent the re-uptake of dopamine. (vyvanse should be available in the country by the end of the year just for your information)

Stay away from other stimulants and the anti psychotic risperidone doesn't interact well with quite a few meds. Stay away from all forms of stimulants and that includes coffee as that is one of the things you should be dropping when being ADHD..

'Also the risperdone is not really used for 'sleep' that's just a side effect, for ADHD it's used as a mood stabilizer'

bamiam wrote: I can assure you that an otc fat burner will not cause any recognizable adverse interactions with your concerta.

That's because all of them pretty much suck. There's nothing potent in them.



@DM, bro I feel for your situation. I'm sorry about the car, it's a messed up country we live in. Anyway, my advice: go fucking full keto. The first week will suck, but after that the diet will curb appetite and increase mental clarity. I also can't speak badly about Albuterol for fat loss. When the fat problem is gone, slowly add in carbs over a month. After that, asses if you are ready for some Vitamin S. You're young dude, you have a lot of time to make money for steroids.

Peace.