advice on use of steroids

hi
so I finally considered using steroids and I was think as a beginner I want to use the sample cycle of anavar and proviron.. I want to cut and lean bulk only.. I don't want the bloated look.. so my question is, is it smart to use anavar and proviron for a starter to help cut some fat for the holidays? and then next year I will do a lean bulk.. what would you'll suggest for all lean bulk?

Lean Bulk
Tbol, Test & then a Winstrol bridge. Eat at a calorie deficit to cut off extra fat.

Orals only is a total waist in my opinion.

Tanx oupa
and I did read the topic 'short cycles and seen some of the guys are not the biggest fans of shorter cycles.. l think I would like to do shorter cycles.. if I do choose shorter cycles then what compounds should I use and for how long should I use them and how would the pct be set out?

my stats
age 23
weight 56kg
height 158cm
bf-not sure but assume at around 14percent

history on steroids - I've only done oral only cycles when I didn't know what I was doing..

For a steroid newbie planning on a short, lean bulking cycle the compounds you should look at are test prop as a base, and then tbol, winstrol or anavar. Winstrol gives the best bang for buck and at your size you will see great results at 30mg/day or 40mg tbol. 2 bottles will then last you just under 5 weeks. Keep it simple. 8 weeks of prop and then a 2 week wait before PCT. Stop the orals a day before PCT. PCT 1 should suffice but I always run HCG on cycle no matter what.

smally99 wrote: my stats
age 23
weight 56kg
height 158cm
bf-not sure but assume at around 14percent

history on steroids - I've only done oral only cycles when I didn't know what I was doing..

Many things of concern here.

You are a very small guy. Even if your BF% is at 14% (probably around 16-18%) at 14% means your lean mass is less than 50kg.

You're only 23 yet you have "several" cycles. What orals have you used and how were those cycles run?

You shouldn't even consider AAS before middle 20's because your endogenous Test is sky high but rapidly starts dropping after 25.

You should be able to pack on some good lean purely by training and eating correctly BUT given your size you will quickly look completely kak unless you build muscle in proportion to everywhere else

Tanx muscle..
if you don't mind how would that cycle be put out like example

week 1-8 -......
weeks-4 -......
etc..


Tanx cyc..
I am gaining a good amount muscle the pass 3weeks by eating quiet clean..I'm just over eating abit to bulk alil for few more weeks..
I did dbol only and anap only with pct.. the anap was done over a year ago.. and dbol over 2years ago..

p's..I did start of at 48 kg, I was 60kg,58kg.. and now at 56kg I'm starting to look leaner and better and I'm happier with how I'm looking..

The amount of steroids you need is relative to your body weight.

Test prop weeks 1 - 8 at 1 ml EOD (350mg a week if it's PGW)

Winstrol 30mg/day will last you 33.3 days, so start from one day into week 6 and run 2 weeks longer than the test prop.

Start PCT1 week 10. HCG is not entirely necessary but its cheap and insurance for your balls, so I would get 1x 5000IU vial and run 500IU split into 2 shots a week from week 1 to 10. Preload 20 insulin syringes with 250IU and keep in the freezer. More than 250IU does little to increase testosterone but it will increae estrogen.

I agree with Cyclo completely but I know that once the steroid bug has bitten you theres no going back. Food is the 70% of the equation.

so it's just the test prop. weeks-1-8,
and then the winstrol oral. weeks6-10
and pct 1 from week 10 onwards?
and hcg for the nads weeks-1-10

and do I have to worry about gyno? I already have 10tabs arimidex on hand.. I had it for over a year now should I get a new card of it or will it still do the job of I have problems because it's old?
Tanx again

Keep the arimidex on hand. Gyno doesn't happen over night, so relax and keep us posted on your progress. Enjoy the cycle.

so after alot of reading of the forum,I think it will be better to do a test only cycle for 10-12 weeks..
I'm not going to rush into it just to be done by December so will probably do it in January or July next year after I'm 24..waiting till 25 is going to be too long to wait for me right now..
so I want to get my things in order..
my cycle will look like this

say 12weeks (if the sides like acne is alot will drop to 10weeks, I'm vert prone to acne..one packet of lays today will be give me a zit or 2 on my face tomorrow )

weeks1-12 - test cyp
winny?? -pct
1)will follow pct 1,which will start 36 days after last shot? whether it's 10 or 12 weeks, please correct me if I'm wrong?

reason I don't want to front load is because I've done alot of oral only before..
2)I want to bridge with winny.. Where will I start it?
3)if I bridge with winny do I still do pct 1?


I'm only 54kg and 159cm and looking at other people's cycle logs I'm definitely 16-18percent bf..
4)is it smart to take a clen to get down to like 12? or just diet and cardio..

5)with doing the beginner bulk cycle my goal is actually a lean bulk..is that a smart cycle to do? or are there any suggestions of other cycles that could be done at my height and weight for lean gains.?
6) or do I stay with the test cyp and eat at a defecit or at maintenance tru out?

thanks guys..

quickly Post us a diet first. full diet. everythinf you eat a day normally

meal 1 - 3eggs and medium baked potato
meal 2 - 30almond, whey shake 30g
meal 3 - quater chicken medium or half chicken (baby pieces) and 2 teaspoons peanut butter
meal 4(pre)- 100g oats and medium banana OR romany cream biscuits with peanut butter and pre workout (nano vapour)
post workout - 50g whey and 15g dextrose with bcaa
meal 5 - quater chicken medium or half chicken (baby pieces) and half plate of mixed veggies

not counting calories atm but I lost 2kg with eating the like this just less in each meal the pass 6 weeks..
when I bulk I usually eat the same just more in each meal..

edit -meal 1 - 3eggs and sweet potato not baked potato

Guys don't you think test prop is a lil painful for a newbie ? Like from what I read he's never poked so pinning eod into virgin muscles is gonna be sore for him

Lex wrote: Guys don't you think test prop is a lil painful for a newbie ? Like from what I read he's never poked so pinning eod into virgin muscles is gonna be sore for him

It's going to be sore either way, personally this thing ppl have in there heads about different compound pain is silly..

smally99 wrote:
5)with doing the beginner bulk cycle my goal is actually a lean bulk..is that a smart cycle to do? or are there any suggestions of other cycles that could be done at my height and weight for lean gains.?
6) or do I stay with the test cyp and eat at a defecit or at maintenance tru out?

thanks guys..

Ok so I've answered my questions 1-4, sorry for repeating questions that was on the forum.
but my question 5-6 I'm clueless..anyone with some answers for me.. thanks..

smally99 wrote:

smally99 wrote:
5)with doing the beginner bulk cycle my goal is actually a lean bulk..is that a smart cycle to do? or are there any suggestions of other cycles that could be done at my height and weight for lean gains.?
6) or do I stay with the test cyp and eat at a defecit or at maintenance tru out?

thanks guys..

Ok so I've answered my questions 1-4, sorry for repeating questions that was on the forum.
but my question 5-6 I'm clueless..anyone with some answers for me.. thanks..

5 + 6 ... the answer is pretty simple bro, and im sure as you've been told a few times.

Your goal will always be diet dependant.. surplus, deficit etc will be your factor in bulk, lean bulk, cut ans blah blah. and not so much compound related at your level.

Yes some compounds to help with certian goals.. but for a beginner that will be irrelevant and just add unnessecary strain. Stick to the basics. It's going to take a good few cycles before you need to start being picky about compounds with regard to goal.. for now. Ull grow like a weed and lean off a std beginners bulk.. eat at a slight surplus of say 500 calories and monitor your progress,if your picking up unwanted fat (which ypu really shouldnt at your weight) then adjust accordingly via diet or add some cardio etc. Everything can be manipulated that way...

Good luck

please comment on my bf..

1st pic was taken this morning


2nd pic was yesterday morning


3rd pic was 14 th October


I'm trying to cut down as much bf as possible before I start my cycle in January.. atm I'm on a cutting diet earing at 1600-1700 calories per day.. weight as per last night after gym was 53.6kg

A long way away from needing gear Bud. Your tiny and at about 16% you need to learn how to pick up muscle naturally long before you think of gear.
You need to learn how to eat lots of clean food and how to train

I agree with rhino here (again haha).

It's obvious you haven't yet learnt how to train and/or eat to build muscle.

The reason people will tell you not to touch AAS yet is because, you may not believe this, steroids won't do much unless combined with proper diet and training. So you'll be disappointed with the results.

I read above you've done several cycles already? Dbol? And what do you have to show for it? I'm not trying to be rude my friend just trying to save you money, time and health. The other thing is, I wonder, if you don't yet have a good grasp on nutrition and training how well do you understand steroids and all the things you need to look out for, support supplements, checking BP and all the other shit.

I don't like typing these things cos I feel like I'm patronising but I would like to be spoken to straight like this if I was jumping into something before I was ready.

So, there's nothing wrong jumping on roids before you've reached your genetic potential (although some will disagree with that) the real problem comes when the person hasn't fully learnt about nutrition and training because, like I said, steroids will do little without those elements being nailed.

If I was you I'd get reading more on both how to train and how to eat, stick to the basics and the proven. Then also put pen to paper and journal things that work and things that don't, keep records, because it's also about learning how certain training elements and nutritional sources work for YOU. Give that a couple years of dedication and dare I say you'll be ready

tanx guys..
I do have absolutely faakol to show from my previous cycles.

this is what my diet looks like..

calories -1600-1700 (using my fitness pal)
breakfast
1egg and 3eggs yellow
50g sweet potato

mid-day
whey(25g)
10 almond nuts

lunch
Half chicken (baby size) or 125g grilled streak with toast (4slices low gi brown)
15g peanut butter (no peanut butter when I have steak)

pre-workout
banana..25g whey with 200ml low fat milk and 15g peanut butter

post shake
50g whey
25g dextrose

dinner
quater chicken (baby size)
1cup mixed veggies

any criticism on my diet.. I've been following it like this for 5weeks and lost 2kg and I'm sure I lost muscle..was eating less when I wasn't counting calories in the 1st 3weeks of this diet..

my training
Monday -chest and triceps
Tuesday -back and biceps
Wednesday -legs
Thursday-shoulders and sometimes forearms
Friday -bicep and triceps

my training is abit mixed up atm.. just doing different things with no system of reps and weights

twice a week 10min high intensity stepper post weights
abs 2-3 times a week of hanging leg raises 5sets to failure
my training is half compound and half concentration..
any specific type of training(program) you'll consider me to do..
I do my dead lifts and squats and bench..
deadlift -110kg 4reps
squats - 80kg 6reps
bench -70 kg 3-4 reps

it's frustrating I'm itching to use gear but I want to do it right..
tanx for the help

starting this week.. every 4th day is my carb up.. same calories, 1/3 of my protein, same amount of fats and the rest is cards.. one question.. is a box of choc kits biscuits good for my carb up day?

Smally99, do you read much? Below are a couple of books that cover the basics. The first book is cool because you can literally follow the plan laid out in the book for both diet and exercise. The second book covers lots of simple but enjoyable bodybuilding recipes which in opinion is important to sustaining your endeavour.

www.amazon.co.uk/Bigger-Leaner-Stronger-...ords=body+by+science

www.amazon.co.uk/The-Shredded-Chef-Recip...0V8WKW4M8JY7698WAQCA

I was going to PM this to you but there doesn't seem to be a PM function, or am I missing it?

Ye there is no PM function. Anonymity is key with us discussing the use of illegal substances...

anyone to comment on my current cutting diet..