Bulk and cut in same cycle

Wat dose for the bettasleep guys?

to clarify i would have adjusted the test to 750mg for 450mg of deca.300mg is dismal why waste 12 weeks when you can get more out.

GSP wrote:

VonD wrote: 12-16weeks
dbol is fine to use.water retention will be highish on this cycle though.

Up the deca to 450mg or 600mg.
Cant really cut and bulk properly in 1 cycle.
and 2nd to cut is more diet related than anything else.

Incorporate some winny and clen and yohimbine in your bridge with some cardio.
have cabaser on hand for prolactin sides if they occur.

Disagree with running the deca at such high doses. Leave the deca at 300mg in coorespondence with the test dosage. Any tapering up with deca will require you to up the test dosage as well. 300mg of deca will be enough for your first encounter with the compound. Also, ill recommend running HCG for teh duration of this cycle at 250IUx3 per week starting from week one right up until week before you start pct. Use both an ai and cabaser on this cycle and dont just keep them on hand as you will stetting u up for sides. Adex at 0.25mg eod and 0.5mg cabaser every five days. I cant stress enough that you need to run an anti-progesterone on this cycle to ensure that you pct is going to be that much smoother and so that you can keep gains. As pyro says, drop the tren. Its highly suprressive as well and 20 day supply is not going to do much other than probably give u restless nights and some anxiety.

i used 2 a day slept like a baby.

Is Ketotifen and bettasleep the same? And do I have to use it if I take clen

300mg of deca imo is not a waste, particularly for someone using the compound for the first time. Also, I am not sure what this guys cycle experience is, but running nor-derivatives and testosterone for the first time is something that should not be taken lightly due to the high possibility of side effects, particularly when we talking about high levels of estrogen and prolactin floating around the system. As such, running more conservative dosages to see how your body responds to this combination is always advisable.

I think we can all agree that 750mg of test is a shitload to be doing per week for the average, non-competing gymer, and will be guaranteed to give some side effects. Add to this 450mg of deca to a person who may potentially be sensitive to nor-derivatives and we could have a potentially have a very bad outcome. Also, we running long-esters here, so if he does react if sides do arise, they are going to be around for a while.

christo11 wrote: Okay guys I have a problem my source can't get Ketotifen

Ketotifen is an OTC syrup. Go to your local pharmacy and ask them for Adco-Zetofen. If they don't have that then get Betasleep. They are not the same thing but have the same effect. The active ingredient in Betasleep is diphenhydramine.

What if I did clen 2 weeks and than 2 weeks ECA repeat or would the ketotifen be a better way?

You can do Clen for 6-8 weeks. Forget the ECA ephedrine is dangerous.

@ Pyroclasm

I spoke to one of the bodybuilders at gym he said that if I used clen for 2 weeks followed by ECA the next 2 weeks and repeat it would fine as long as I don't use them together but I would stil have to use betasleep or ketotifen

What do you think?

Use yohimbine with the clen and use the ketofen or bettea sleep also.

christo11 wrote: @ Pyroclasm

I spoke to one of the bodybuilders at gym he said that if I used clen for 2 weeks followed by ECA the next 2 weeks and repeat it would fine as long as I don't use them together but I would stil have to use betasleep or ketotifen

What do you think?

Bettasleep is cheap bro just use it !

christo11 wrote: @ Pyroclasm

I spoke to one of the bodybuilders at gym he said that if I used clen for 2 weeks followed by ECA the next 2 weeks and repeat it would fine as long as I don't use them together but I would stil have to use betasleep or ketotifen

What do you think?

You don't need to use Ketotifen/Betasleep if you cycle Clen for two weeks. You know how I feel about ECA not going to repeat myself.

Got it pyroclasm ECA is a no no

One more thing bro any idea how to add the winny and clen into the bridge for test deca cycle

Test week 1 - 14 500 mg
Deca week 1 - 12 300 mg

200 winny tabs 10mg
100 clen tabs 40mcg
Might also get some yohimbine 50tabs 10mg

Haha yea bro its really cheap clicks has it for R21 and some change...gona do 1 capsule at night someone on the forum said 1 was enough

Cheers

Okay remember the waiting period for Test-Cyp is 36 days and for Deca it's 45 days. You should take your last shot of Test-Cyp exactly 9 days after your last shot of Deca. Your bridge starts the day after that last shot of Test-Cyp and it will be exactly 36 days. During this time you run Winstrol @50mg ED and stop 2 days before PCT starts. Clen is not suppressive to the HPTA axis so you can run it while you PCT if needed. So start the Clen on your bridge at 40mcg then taper up by 20mcg E4D until you reach a max of 120mcg. Stay at this dosage until your Clen tabs are finished. Run Ketotifen @15ml every night before bed or Betasleep.

Pyroclasm wrote: You can do Clen for 6-8 weeks. Forget the ECA ephedrine is dangerous.

haha and clen is not?

@Christo you can do the 2 weeks clen, 2 week eca etc. I did it last year and had great results. Just don't use them the say day.

Would my diet have to change during the bridge leading into pct? Normally u up calories to maintain gains but I don't think I'll see the effects of the winstrol and clen if I eat the same way during the bulk

Any suggestions?

Pyroclasm wrote: Okay remember the waiting period for Test-Cyp is 36 days and for Deca it's 45 days. You should take your last shot of Test-Cyp exactly 9 days after your last shot of Deca. Your bridge starts the day after that last shot of Test-Cyp and it will be exactly 36 days. During this time you run Winstrol @50mg ED and stop 2 days before PCT starts. Clen is not suppressive to the HPTA axis so you can run it while you PCT if needed. So start the Clen on your bridge at 40mcg then taper up by 20mcg E4D until you reach a max of 120mcg. Stay at this dosage until your Clen tabs are finished. Run Ketotifen @15ml every night before bed or Betasleep.

Would adding yohimbine add any benefits?

Yebo

Pyroclasm wrote: Yebo

I'm guessing 20mg a day, 10mg split twice?

Yes betting big and lean,that's what we all strive for,but it's biologically not possible.Too add muscle we require more macronutrient's protein carbohydrates and healthy fat's.too get lean we drop the carbo's and some of the fat's and up the protein,but there is still a caloric deficit.Sciense report i recently read stated;That each pound of new leam tissue,burns an extra 50 more calories.So the best way too loose fat is too build more muscle. thanks john