My 1st TEST CYCLE - Prop or Cyp??

Hi guys..im planning on running my first test cycle in september ive never used any bulking cycles..only anavar a few times and winstrol when i was on a cutting diet..ive got some good natural muscle ive added over the years.
STATS:
bf - 10pcent
Height - 1.87m
weight - 99kg
age - 23

Im preparing for beach season so im gonna b looking for some lean gains and to drop some bodyfat

I was thnking of doing a test prop,anavar and proviron cycle for 8-10 weeks..but im not to keen on all the pinning for prop so was thnking of cyp instead..will cyp be OK for my goal? or will it hold to much water and give me alota bloat?

then my pct ill run Doctari's

Why not go with testen? Bit better half life than cyponate!

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A lil more info i got planned for my cycle

If i choose to use prop then my cycle will be as follows :

Week 1-10 100mg prop EOD
Week 5-12 40-60mg anavar a day (bridging my anavar for 2 weeks before i start PCT)
Week 1-12 proviron 40-60 a day
Maybe i can frontload with some t-bol in week 1-5??

If i use Cyp then cycle is as follows :

Week 1-10 500mg cyp (250mg monday & 250mg Thursday)
Week 6-13 anavar 40-60mg a day
Proviron will be run throughout

Then a full doctari's PCT protocol

yea that could also be a possibility..but how is the water retention & bloat on Testen? Coz looking for lean gains and to drop some fat..need to lean out

The general rule of thumb is shorter esters hold less water! Testen half life is less than that of cyponate so I would pick between test prop and testen! Cyp will bloat you the most!

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Test prop would require ED injections. If this is your first cycle , I would definitely go with test enan imo. Longer ester and can be pinned twice a week. Would you guys agree?

I don't agree with Prop having to be injected ED. It can be done EOD as MuscleAddict showed with the Test Prop graphs he posted a while back, which showed that blood levels could be maintained at a stable level with EOD injections. Which is actually a big difference to ED injections if you think about it.

But diet plays a big role in your results. Look at Poisoned Pulse's cycle log from 600mg Test En and 450mg NPP for 10 weeks, and he has got lean as hell! If you eat according to your goals, you are better off than just taking something without a planned & structured diet, hoping the anabolics do the trick.

yip prop 3 times a week is good. mon wed fri

MK wrote: I don't agree with Prop having to be injected ED. It can be done EOD as MuscleAddict showed with the Test Prop graphs he posted a while back, which showed that blood levels could be maintained at a stable level with EOD injections. Which is actually a big difference to ED injections if you think about it.

But diet plays a big role in your results. Look at Poisoned Pulse's cycle log from 600mg Test En and 450mg NPP for 10 weeks, and he has got lean as hell! If you eat according to your goals, you are better off than just taking something without a planned & structured diet, hoping the anabolics do the trick.

Ok tx. Was always under the impression ED injections were better. Would that be the same for Tren ace then?

My diet will be spot on bro will be on a low/moderate calorie diet..will be very clea indeed

Do you rate 8-10 weeks for test E is long enough for my first cycle? I should gain quite a bit on that along with the anavar and proviron?

Week 1-10 testE 2 pins per week
Week 6-13 anavar 80mg a day
Proviron will be run throughout

This is what i am doing in september aswell will be my second cycle i will probably add dbol as front load.
Eod pins from prop put me off because of frequence and it can be more painful than long esters.

You could always extend your teste for longer but you will need to make that decision before you start the anavar other wise you will end up with a gap at the end of your bridge with no aas!

@phillip

Think im going to do the same as you there mate..but will rather frontload with a t-bol..dont want the bloat and water retention associated with d-bols.

and gonna diet like a biatch!!! im still pretty lean..so sure i will be good to go after this cycle

What PCT are you planning??

ja still deciding on the front load , also looking for a lean cycle but i did tbol in my bridge last cycle didint realy feel anything with it but thats probably because of the test still in my system.

pct
clomid
hcg
nolva

Id run test e pinned 2 times a week 300 to 450 mg for 4 weeks the last 4 weeks id switch to prop pined eod. Id run winstrol tabs the first 4 weeks and then switch to the anavar and proviron. If your budget alows some masteron in the last 4. Diet is key here thou.

@Snitch: I'd say 10 weeks is the absolute minimum cycle length for a long ester Test like Enanthate. The Test will only 'kick-in' after 4-6 weeks (people differ), and most guys on the forum have reported being very happy with 12 weeks long ester Test cycles. All it takes is a quick search to find some logs to find that out and personally, I ran 300mg of Test E for 8 weeks - just don't be as stupid as I was. The only gains I had were from a slight increase in appetite and very strict dieting.

@MxT: Bro, I'm battling to understand the logic behind what you've just said... Test E only 'kicks in' earliest by 4 weeks, and that's if you're lucky, as most guys have reported on the forum that Test E took longer than that. And 300-450mg?? Maybe 450mg he might see results if his diet is nailed, but 500mg of a long ester Test seems to be the minimum suggested dose when running Test alone bud.

Moving to Test Prop 4 weeks in and stopping the Test En seems pretty much pointless to me. Even 4 weeks of Prop will only see you experiencing the Test properly for 2-2.5 weeks? And Winstrol tabs as a kicktart? Maybe, but generally it's used for the bridge period, and something like Tbol is used as a kickstart if bloat is to be avoided.

Maybe I'm being an idiot and completely misunderstanding you, but I can't agree with much regarding what you've just said, sorry bro.

I only occasionly makes sense so dont worry about my rants.Lets a agree to disagree about the merits of short cycles,faster pct start times and lower dosages for newby test users and frontloading with substances that naturally controle estrogen related sides and bloat on lean cycles not doing a bridge if you dont have to and frankly cutting the cycle cost in half. Then moving over to short esters and pure anabolics that are gentle on bloat and the liver. Having a nice 3 day break before doing proper pct. or you can hit the first time test user hard with a substance he has not used before in huge doses where the chances of sides are much higher, recovery time is much longer in the case of test e or death by injection frequency for 10 weeks in the case of prop- how many pins is that 35? Eina.

Lets call this a philosophical difference of opinion

I think you're missing the point here bud. What I'm saying is that after stopping the Test En at 4 weeks, that peak concentration level in your blood is gonna start diminishing. And from what I understand, the heart of your gains when on any form of AAS is from the period where those levels are peaking and are being maintained at that high level.

But I'm no expert and could very well be missing your point completely.

But wont you be maintaining those high levels with the test prop when u stop the E?

Well thats the idea in theory.... (-,

Oh, NOW I see what you meant, thanks Philip for helping to clear things up there.

Hmm, thinking about that now, maybe that could work? Because it's just like any other long ester Test cycle followed by a bridge consisting of Test Prop for ~2 weeks.

eg: Week 1-12: Test En
Week 13-14/15: Test Prop
Week 15/16-17: finish bridge
Week 18: PCT
I know that quite a few guys on the forum have followed that procedure and recommend it, and theoretically it's the same thing, as you're just switching from one Test to the other?

But then again Test En takes 4-6 weeks to 'kick in', so you won't gain much at all in those first 4 weeks of Test En...? Hopefully a senior can come help clear this up, I'm really keen on finding out the truth about this

Thats is where the heartof the gains is and also where most of the issues with long esters lie- thus switching to a short ester and maintaing test levels with the prop and bringing ur pct start closer with 3 weeks- thats where the real value lies. So in theory it should be a safer cycle will less shutdown and keeping ur gains should be better. Also bloat should not be a problem. But everyone is differant. To be honest there is nothing wrong with you suggestion. But after 15 years of this i still try and be conservative.

Hey Snith,

I'm been following this thread, as I'm leaning towards doing your prop cycle (perhaps no tbol though).

What have you decided mate?

@MxT - I like your idea bro..was actually considering doing something similar the thing is its my first test cycle so im not to sure how my body is going to react so dont wana run test for too long..so was also thinking test E for 4-5 weeks then jumping onto prop for 3-4 weeks..so atleast by the time my last prop shot is done the Enanthate esther would have worked its way out..so start time for pct will be much sooner after my last prop shot as you said..making PCT sooner and less shutdown..then ill just bridge with anavar for 2 weeks before my PCT..as MK said..test E only kicks in at week 3-4..so by week 4..my test will peak..then get off the E and start prop..say 1ml EOD..this will maintain those peak levels..as prop reaches peak levels 2 days after pinning

@ beemer - havent decided on aything yet but I think I am going to do what was discussed above bro.. week 1-4 test E 400mg
week 4-8 test prop 100mg EOD
week 4-10 anavar 60mg a day
proviron throughout cycle
week 11-15 PCT

Would like to hear from DJ or PUMP about this idea??

Thanks

You would need to frontload either an oral in the first 4 weeks like winstrol or frontload the test e to get blood levels to a decent range

Snitch wrote: A lil more info i got planned for my cycle

If i choose to use prop then my cycle will be as follows :

Week 1-10 100mg prop EOD
Week 5-12 40-60mg anavar a day (bridging my anavar for 2 weeks before i start PCT)
Week 1-12 proviron 40-60 a day
Maybe i can frontload with some t-bol in week 1-5??

If i use Cyp then cycle is as follows :

Week 1-10 500mg cyp (250mg monday & 250mg Thursday)
Week 6-13 anavar 40-60mg a day
Proviron will be run throughout

Then a full doctari's PCT protocol

You should have an AI on hand mate. This is your first non-oral cycle and pinning yourself every second day is something to not take lightly. Secondly, any estrogenic bloat from a longer-estered test can easily be combated with some arimidex which seems to be missing from your cycle. dont count on proviron as being your AI, it will act as an antagonist to estrogen in the system but will in no way block the actual convsersion of test into oestrogen. I am currently running a cutting cycle using testen300, t3 and then a winnie bridge before pct. Also, diet is key to minimising bloat as well