Test only vs exotic steroids

Hi guys,

So I was browsing the web to kill time, and came across an interesting read. So it was a post of a guy whi is a pro bodybuilder. Don't know if he really is, don't care either but back to the point. The guy said he can't understand how people always over do dosages and add numerous exotic drugs to their stack when they do not need it.

I must say I tend to agree.

How many guys in the gyms are there that pin insane dosages and still don't look that great?

He also made the comment saying that if a guy weighing 90kgs doesn't grow on a gram of test, his diet isn't correct. I couldn't agree more. He then went further and talked about steroid stacks, saying he doesn't think that all these exotic drugs are better than plain old test. This made me wonder.

Test is dose dependent, meaning the more you pin, the better the results. But sides also increases as the dose does. I've been on some fairly high 1g test cycles with some equi, and I can't say that the sides were unbearable. They were quite minimal actually. I also think that sides only go up to a certain point, and so does the dose of the ai you use.

Came up with the thought of what would give better gains? 2g test or 1g test with 700mg equi for example. Now I know this isn't for everyone as some people are very prone to sides and gyno and that that dosages would be nearly impossible for them, but I am sure some people can, and can go even higher. Test is 2 times cheaper than equi or deca. We stack steroids, with dosages adding up to 2g+ sometimes but as soon as you hear someone pins 2g clean test most people will be throwing a bitch fit and yelling abuse.

What do you guys think? And please don't attack me for this post haha

Its got a lot to do with receptors. The more test u inject does not mean it is all being used. Only so much test can bind itself to the receptor and be absorbed. The rest...is wasted and leads to sides. This also leads to receptor degredation.

Its like dissolving sugar in water. It will dissolve and be absorbed within the glass of water up to a point if u keep adding more sugar. Then the liquid becomes "saturated" with the sugar and does not dissolve any more.

Also other compounds work differently, for instance protein synthesis like equi for example. So whilst the test boosts the androgen side of ur cycle the equi concentrates on other areas that test only does not cover or cover completely.

I do agree that I don't see much sense in adding too many high androgenic compounds together at high doses as this is kinda silly. But stacks with a combo of test, 19nor, dht etc brings a nice balance to a cycle.

PLEASE guys don't flame me if I am wrong. This is just my opinion and if I am mistaken please correct me. I'm learning a lot from this forum.

I ran two high dose equi and test cycles and I think the results would have been pretty similar if it was test only. Test really has a good affect on me.

I think we are too quick to blame receptors (this is a personal opinion) as you get bigger, you need more steroids. That's just how it is. If you reach 200pounds naturally, do one proper cycle and you will already be 220... People jump on the juice train too quickly and that's why they aren't the size the want to be. Rather than focusing on getting enough rest and nutrition they just add another compound.

Jyt nogal n punt da. The bigger u get the more u need. Do agree with u in regard to the nutrition fact though.I still say a combination of test/19nor/dht is better IMO. Don't get me wrong I love test only cycles and they have their place.

This is interesting and would love to see some forum vets opinions on this.

No I completely agree. But hell you don't have to run 5 or 6 compounds at once. You can, but my point is I don't think results will necessarily be better. Its all about nutrition.

Let's take koe for example (please don't take offense buddy) koe added fat while he did it on his own, now he has dj, he is eating like a pig, and he isn't adding a massive amount of fat. Now if he worked with dj from when he started training, how would he have looked now? He looks great, but if his diet was on point from the very start, he would have looked even better. I include myslef in this, if I ate correctly from grade 10 or what ever, I would look even better than I look now.

I just think we sometimes over do things trying to get "the edge". There is no magic compound or stack

Ja I agree with u. Lol we agree with each other totally in this thread actually. Yes no need for adding 5,6,7 compounds.

Still want more clearence on 2g+ test and absorption etc.

P.S. I am sumtimes quilty of wanting to add too much to a cycle. I'm man enough to admit that. But bn sensible the past year and half. True bout nutrition and DJ. With a diet from DJ and being off cycle for 3months I am making nice gains.

Man jy gesels lekker ou jakes. Haha

Jy ook ou maat. Lekker dat ons bietjie saamstem

I also wanted to add everything I could get my hand on at the start. I think its only human. I personally don't think that 2g would be wasted and that most of it will be absorbed. I also have to add that you have to have the size to do it. If someone weighs 80kg for example, there is no need for him to pin that much. The guy shouldn't be pinning at all. (I am talking about guys who are taller than 1.78 now).

Think about it, a pro weighs what, 300pounds off season? in two cycles you can add 30pounds, with not too much effort, I added even more. If you were 200 pounds to start off with, you will already be 230! I spoke to lee priest at the I think it was the shammen classic I think, while standing with one of the helpers who worked there, ebraim eccsack. He asked lee about steroids and lee told him not to use, and rather nuild up his natural foundation first. It makes sense. Not arguing that the pros have "good genetics" but its also proper nutrition and a great understanding of anabolics.

People should wait till they are older before they juice, and stop wanting to add too much unnecessary shit

Makes sense ja.

Ou maat eks op pad bed toe.

Sal jou oornooi vi koekies en tee sumtime dan kan ons brei patrone uitruil en skinder.

Nag jakes

MCJ wrote: Makes sense ja.

Ou maat eks op pad bed toe.

Sal jou oornooi vi koekies en tee sumtime dan kan ons brei patrone uitruil en skinder.

Nag jakes

I'm also almost on my way, 10more minutes haha.

Ruil daai koekies vir chicken fillets en eks in :lol:

Lekker slaap budi

I got absorbed with all this high dose crap in the past.
Now that i decided to stay on a slightly higher than TRT dose TestE(250mg) with 400mg Primo(First vile after that 200mg) i found im still making very nice progress.
Goal now is to make gains over a long period rather than trying to add huge amounts of mass in a couple of months.
Too much test makes you lose energy in the gym and takes away from the workout.

So receptors are still working. What would you consider as too much test? When I was on a gram my lifts were amazing. I had great workouts. Would you say that 2.4g test will take more out of your workout than 1g test, 700mg equi and 700mg deca?

jakes wrote: So receptors are still working. What would you consider as too much test? When I was on a gram my lifts were amazing. I had great workouts. Would you say that 2.4g test will take more out of your workout than 1g test, 700mg equi and 700mg deca?

You need receptors? your body will make them. Right?
Ive been on for a looong time. TRT time now. I will add nice things on the way. No more quantity - rather quality.
Most Test i've been on was 500mg Sust EOD. Stacked with 300mg Deca EOD. I was tired all the time. Never suspected the test until i dropped the dose to 250. Even the last cycle of 1g Test/800mg Primo was too much.

500mg eod is what, 1.5g or 2g weekly?. Quality over quantity is better when you start getting older. I just want to add as much mass as possible.

The fact that you are still making gains after such a long time on gear supports the fact that receptors are blamed too quickly when gains stop coming.

My theory is just that the bigger you get, the more you need. Its logic. While on gear new sells are formed (increased IGF production while on cycle) which leads to new sells. These cells can grow too. So the next time you take gear, these cells grow, and you become bigger.

But you say your only pinning 250mg test now with 400mg primo and still making gains? That's hard to understand. Bloody complicated shit

Also very much interested by this. JR how much smaller are you now compared to your prime? Think thats the reason why you're still responding to lower doses than you did before, obviously the bigger you are the more test you'll need to grow

I think Jakes has nailed it with the "bigger you are, the more cells you have and thus more androgen receptors". Which means that you really shouldn't ever have to increase doses by much as your receptors won't be "fried" but you'll have fresh ones from having gotten bigger.

As I'm typing this just realised that only GH can give you new cells and normal gear only enlarges the cells so that above argument seems false now. So your receptors can be "fried", but how does that explain JR still making gains on lower doses? Fuck I've just confused myself :lol:

Deadgoat wrote: Also very much interested by this. JR how much smaller are you now compared to your prime? Think thats the reason why you're still responding to lower doses than you did before, obviously the bigger you are the more test you'll need to grow

I think Jakes has nailed it with the "bigger you are, the more cells you have and thus more androgen receptors". Which means that you really shouldn't ever have to increase doses by much as your receptors won't be "fried" but you'll have fresh ones from having gotten bigger.

As I'm typing this just realised that only GH can give you new cells and normal gear only enlarges the cells so that above argument seems false now. So your receptors can be "fried", but how does that explain JR still making gains on lower doses? Fuck I've just confused myself :lol:

Shut up DG you are confusing me too :huh:. Actually conventional gear increases IGF and GH production in the body I think which causes new sells. I don't think your receptors are "fried" I just think you need more gear lol. The amount of gear you need should be directly proportional to your size in theory

I think we can ignore the IGF and GH increases caused by gear as they are minimal really. Agree but not entirely, the amount of gear you need is directly proportional to the amount of receptors you have which is linked to your size. But just coz you got bigger doesn't mean you have more receptors UNLESS you used GH, again we're ignoring the IGF and GH increases due to gear

Receptors can be "fried" or rather the amount of test your body needs to maintain the same rate of proteinsynthesis will increase over time.

Look at a normal cycle, gains slow down coz your receptors are fried (thus needing a break after PCT, and I think we upregulate these receptors with some of our PCT drugs like clomid?) and the body will require more test to maintain the same rate of growth you experienced in the first 8-10 weeks. Now if getting bigger gave you more cells and more androgen receptors you wouldn't need to increase the dose at this stage

No dg that theory can't be correct either. Look if a guy weighs 90kg for example and another one weighs 70, both do 500mg test cyp weekly for 12 weeks with the exact same diet and sleeping habits and genetics, the one that weighs 90kg won't gain more off his cycle than the guy of 70kg, so why is this then? The guy weighing 90 should have more receptors because he is bigger and has more cells? See what I mean?

Other factors play a role too, we can't just blame the receptors. The amount of free test in your bloodstream also goes down as the cycle progresses etc

But the 70kg kid will always gain more, if just gave them both an extra 500 calories the thin one will respond better because he's so far below where he's supposed to be while the 90kg will be closer to his natty potential and won't gain much anyway. So its not really about the gear or how they respond to it now is it?

Ok wait, let me rephrase that. Both have pretty similar genetics, are on the same diet (both are 500calories above maintenance). They are both on gear, so the natty potential thing isn't really relevant, or is it? Maybe you need more gear, as you get bigger because you are going up to, or past your natural limit? That can be why gains slow down. Your body trying to bring balance.

jakes wrote: Ok wait, let me rephrase that. Both have pretty similar genetics, are on the same diet (both are 500calories above maintenance). They are both on gear, so the natty potential thing isn't really relevant, or is it? Maybe you need more gear, as you get bigger because you are going up to, or past your natural limit? That can be why gains slow down. Your body trying to bring balance.

If they are both close to their peaks then the 70kg guy is around 5'6 while the 90kg is around 6'0. The 6'0 guy will gain more from the cycle coz its easier to gain weight when you're taller, but the shorter guy will look bigger coz its easier to look big when shorter. Nothing to do with the gear

For the part in bold, I posted this earlier:

the amount of
test your body needs to maintain the same rate of
proteinsynthesis will increase over time

Now this is the part where you realise I've won

jakes wrote: No I completely agree. But hell you don't have to run 5 or 6 compounds at once. You can, but my point is I don't think results will necessarily be better. Its all about nutrition.

Let's take koe for example (please don't take offense buddy) koe added fat while he did it on his own, now he has dj, he is eating like a pig, and he isn't adding a massive amount of fat. Now if he worked with dj from when he started training, how would he have looked now? He looks great, but if his diet was on point from the very start, he would have looked even better. I include myslef in this, if I ate correctly from grade 10 or what ever, I would look even better than I look now.

I just think we sometimes over do things trying to get "the edge". There is no magic compound or stack

I definitely agree with you, I have run many cocktails before Dj and never had the results with less stuff. My first cycle with Dj was very basic and yielded better results. Future cycles look pretty basic as well as you stated, I think when we try complicate things to much we waste time, money, and experience more sides. Cocktails have their place precontest,but to me that's it. Off season keep it basic, diet will be the determining factor. Peptides do also put a good spin on things in terms of keeping gains.

Totally agree. Pre contest is a completely different story. Masteron and all that shit has their place then, but I do not see the need in bulking cycles. No one can argue the effectiveness of peptides either, it's a nice addition, but not at first. You can gain a shitload of weight with just test cycles or the plain old bread and butter cycle, sust and deca.

But generally people waste time effort and money pinning too much shit when they could have gotten similar results off much less and simpler cycles

Deadgoat wrote:

jakes wrote: Ok wait, let me rephrase that. Both have pretty similar genetics, are on the same diet (both are 500calories above maintenance). They are both on gear, so the natty potential thing isn't really relevant, or is it? Maybe you need more gear, as you get bigger because you are going up to, or past your natural limit? That can be why gains slow down. Your body trying to bring balance.

If they are both close to their peaks then the 70kg guy is around 5'6 while the 90kg is around 6'0. The 6'0 guy will gain more from the cycle coz its easier to gain weight when you're taller, but the shorter guy will look bigger coz its easier to look big when shorter. Nothing to do with the gear

For the part in bold, I posted this earlier:

the amount of
test your body needs to maintain the same rate of
proteinsynthesis will increase over time

Now this is the part where you realise I've won

No, that's because they have gotten bigger, not because the fried their receptors. :whistle:

Mmm yeah it is because they've gotten bigger and the body can't keep up with the rate of repair growth needed at this higher weight. But fried receptors will also limit the body's ability to undergo proteinsynthesis now won't it?

Yes, but how would you fry them bud?