Feeling shot, while running HEAT/CLEN

hey guys, when ever n run a course of some ECA stack or clen I feel fine in the begining but after about 3 or so weeks I start feeling tired during the day and struggle to wake up in the mornings... any advice? woulfd taking ketotifen help for this feeling or should I just give my adrenals a break?

I dont run insane dosages, if I do clen its mainly 80mcg a day or 3 heat tabs a day...

Thank you in advance...

Yeah TB, its probabaly due to your beta-receptors burning out. Try some ketotifen but it will only up-regulate them to a point, they maybe too far gone and you may need a break if this doesn't work. I was actually having a similar problem of feeling moeg during the day, especially in the mornings...seems to only happen on HEAT though. So I am currently having a week or two break.

Its either that or you are over-training.

well, I have to drink 2 heat caps just to feel like a normal person...but finishing with that now, so im gonna take a two week break (while on ketotifen) and then start running clen... btw which is the cheaper receptor "upregulator"?

I'm sensing a bit of a ephedrine addiction there, haha....I think best if you take a break. Beta-sleep is by far the cheapest, however I think zetofen is more effective.

Just shows you how people differ i have been running the clen and heat for over 9 weeks now without any problems.goodluck thunderbeast.

I think your cortisol levels are a bit high from combining to many fat burners that's why you are tired. I had the same issue, remember diet and cardio sheds fat, the fat burners should not be used longer than 4-6 weeks at a time with a longer break.

ja, I used to be on pre-workout supps all the time, only took a two month break over june/july and december/jan every year. my hometown never had a gym so I had to gym at home, so I lay of the stimulants.Since last year this little gem of a gym came to town, every person has his own key, so you have free reigns there...

needless to say I have been gymming non-stop (with the needed breaks) and thus also been hitting the stims nonstop (pre-workout though, not eph or clen)... so i guess its time to take a break and come clean...

I can remember when I used to get home (and I stopped all stims) then was powerless/weak/moeg for about 10 daysand then my system reset and I was on the go again.

Come off all stimulants and fatburners for 2 weeks,no coffee,no pre work outs other than BCAA's and carbs,go to your pharmacy get some betasleep,and some burnout from solal,if u can afford it some phosphetydal serine aswell,enough for 600mg a day for 2 weeks,lower calorie in take by 15%-20% and take 15g of glutamine + 15g BCAA's 3x daily aswell as full week off of training,use betasleep for the full two weeks off of all stimulants,even stop drinking coke and coke zero,if u can drink lite icetea for the antioxidants without the calories,increase water intake to 6L a day. You will come back to the gym revived and well rested and cortizol levels will have dropped quite a bit,only use pre work out stimulants 2x a week on body parts that need it such as legs and chest/back(big muscle groups) it should be an aid to training...try keep your carbs around work out times,a combination of fast,slow and medium carbs pre training will help keep u going through training, a good combination is oats,raisins and some wms/vitargo with 25g bcaa/whey protein pre work out will help aid your recovery.

I was chatting to a friend of mine,justin thacker,he has quite a concoction pre.during and after training,its 1 serving cytoguard,1serving creamass,15g bcaa's,2 servings of glutec,5g creatine,1 scoop of glucose powder and 1.5L of water, he has that pre work out,then another during work out,and then another post work out,he doesn't use any pre work out stimulants and that boy trains like a beast and he is flipping strong and all natural!

Thanx for the mountain of advice dj, really appreciate the effort taken to reply.

DJ wrote: Come off all stimulants and fatburners for 2 weeks,no coffee,no pre work outs other than BCAA's and carbs,go to your pharmacy get some betasleep,and some burnout from solal,if u can afford it some phosphetydal serine aswell,enough for 600mg a day for 2 weeks,lower calorie in take by 15%-20% and take 15g of glutamine + 15g BCAA's 3x daily aswell as full week off of training,use betasleep for the full two weeks off of all stimulants,even stop drinking coke and coke zero,if u can drink lite icetea for the antioxidants without the calories,increase water intake to 6L a day. You will come back to the gym revived and well rested and cortizol levels will have dropped quite a bit,only use pre work out stimulants 2x a week on body parts that need it such as legs and chest/back(big muscle groups) it should be an aid to training...try keep your carbs around work out times,a combination of fast,slow and medium carbs pre training will help keep u going through training, a good combination is oats,raisins and some wms/vitargo with 25g bcaa/whey protein pre work out will help aid your recovery.

I was chatting to a friend of mine,justin thacker,he has quite a concoction pre.during and after training,its 1 serving cytoguard,1serving creamass,15g bcaa's,2 servings of glutec,5g creatine,1 scoop of glucose powder and 1.5L of water, he has that pre work out,then another during work out,and then another post work out,he doesn't use any pre work out stimulants and that boy trains like a beast and he is flipping strong and all natural!

Serious DJ, is Justin Thacker all natural?

STUARTF wrote:

DJ wrote: Come off all stimulants and fatburners for 2 weeks,no coffee,no pre work outs other than BCAA's and carbs,go to your pharmacy get some betasleep,and some burnout from solal,if u can afford it some phosphetydal serine aswell,enough for 600mg a day for 2 weeks,lower calorie in take by 15%-20% and take 15g of glutamine + 15g BCAA's 3x daily aswell as full week off of training,use betasleep for the full two weeks off of all stimulants,even stop drinking coke and coke zero,if u can drink lite icetea for the antioxidants without the calories,increase water intake to 6L a day. You will come back to the gym revived and well rested and cortizol levels will have dropped quite a bit,only use pre work out stimulants 2x a week on body parts that need it such as legs and chest/back(big muscle groups) it should be an aid to training...try keep your carbs around work out times,a combination of fast,slow and medium carbs pre training will help keep u going through training, a good combination is oats,raisins and some wms/vitargo with 25g bcaa/whey protein pre work out will help aid your recovery.

I was chatting to a friend of mine,justin thacker,he has quite a concoction pre.during and after training,its 1 serving cytoguard,1serving creamass,15g bcaa's,2 servings of glutec,5g creatine,1 scoop of glucose powder and 1.5L of water, he has that pre work out,then another during work out,and then another post work out,he doesn't use any pre work out stimulants and that boy trains like a beast and he is flipping strong and all natural!

Serious DJ, is Justin Thacker all natural?

Lekker STUART!! hahaha asking, what everybody else is thinking...

Yup,he told me the only time he has taken anything was last year during his prep 9 weeks out the doc gave him a single should sustonan as he was feeling depressed and battling and blood test showed his test levels were low... He is the most dedicated body builder,doesn't cheat on his diet during a 16 week prep once,he is a machine! And such a nice guy.

DJ wrote: Yup,he told me the only time he has taken anything was last year during his prep 9 weeks out the doc gave him a single should sustonan as he was feeling depressed and battling and blood test showed his test levels were low...

So blood tests show he's got low T levels and his doc only prescribes a single shot of sust to cure him of this? Either his doctor's not particularly bright or he needs to get better at lying.

Deadgoat wrote:

DJ wrote: Yup,he told me the only time he has taken anything was last year during his prep 9 weeks out the doc gave him a single should sustonan as he was feeling depressed and battling and blood test showed his test levels were low...

So blood tests show he's got low T levels and his doc only prescribes a single shot of sust to cure him of this? Either his doctor's not particularly bright or he needs to get better at lying.

I think dj might be reffering to doctari...

DJ wrote: Come off all stimulants and fatburners for 2 weeks,no coffee,no pre work outs other than BCAA's and carbs,go to your pharmacy get some betasleep,and some burnout from solal,if u can afford it some phosphetydal serine aswell,enough for 600mg a day for 2 weeks,lower calorie in take by 15%-20% and take 15g of glutamine + 15g BCAA's 3x daily aswell as full week off of training,use betasleep for the full two weeks off of all stimulants,even stop drinking coke and coke zero,if u can drink lite icetea for the antioxidants without the calories,increase water intake to 6L a day. You will come back to the gym revived and well rested and cortizol levels will have dropped quite a bit,only use pre work out stimulants 2x a week on body parts that need it such as legs and chest/back(big muscle groups) it should be an aid to training...try keep your carbs around work out times,a combination of fast,slow and medium carbs pre training will help keep u going through training, a good combination is oats,raisins and some wms/vitargo with 25g bcaa/whey protein pre work out will help aid your recovery.

I was chatting to a friend of mine,justin thacker,he has quite a concoction pre.during and after training,its 1 serving cytoguard,1serving creamass,15g bcaa's,2 servings of glutec,5g creatine,1 scoop of glucose powder and 1.5L of water, he has that pre work out,then another during work out,and then another post work out,he doesn't use any pre work out stimulants and that boy trains like a beast and he is flipping strong and all natural!

Now that's some solid advice a keeper for my library

Deadgoat wrote:

DJ wrote: Yup,he told me the only time he has taken anything was last year during his prep 9 weeks out the doc gave him a single should sustonan as he was feeling depressed and battling and blood test showed his test levels were low...

So blood tests show he's got low T levels and his doc only prescribes a single shot of sust to cure him of this? Either his doctor's not particularly bright or he needs to get better at lying.

as much as u may think he is a liar,alot of doctors do that,a normal GP doesnt always understand the ins and outs of steroid use actually, do u know i taught my GP about PCT as she had minimal knowledge about it? so not all doctors are experts like u deadgoat.There is actually a doctor in Ballito in durban,the minute u have low test levels he sticks you straight on to nebido, that's what the same doctor prescribed to one of the users on this forum,who is about 23 years old,yet when he spoke to doctari he was told to do his pct again,and if he came back with low levels again to re do it a third time. so as u can not all doctors are able to deal with all these problems. Justin competes naturally,as hard as it may be for u to believe that he is nearly 40,so if u look at how he has progressed every year and only competing 8-9kgs heavier than he did in his first show u can actually see he inst lying. so dont accuse/presume people of lying when its clear that they arent.

Thunderbeast wrote:

Deadgoat wrote:

DJ wrote: Yup,he told me the only time he has taken anything was last year during his prep 9 weeks out the doc gave him a single should sustonan as he was feeling depressed and battling and blood test showed his test levels were low...

So blood tests show he's got low T levels and his doc only prescribes a single shot of sust to cure him of this? Either his doctor's not particularly bright or he needs to get better at lying.

I think dj might be reffering to doctari...

nope his normal GP.

ps deadgoat,justin works with some of the best natural coaches in the world,his prep in 2009 where he went to the classic worlds he payed a guy named the diet doctor aka Dr. Joe Klemczewski close on R10 000 for his diet coaching. then this year coming he wants to do the classic worlds again and is going to be using shelby starnes as a diet coach...so a natural athlete can actually get into condition,if u want,add him on facebook,chat to him and see what reply u get...he eats,trains all year around,he is one of the strongest guys i have ever seen train,doing weighted dips with a 50kg dumbell for close on 15 reps. he has a training manual he carries with him for the last 6 years worth of training,it is all documented,he is the most dedicated athlete in sa i am pretty sure of it... so he can make those gains and still be natural as much as u dont believe it!

DJ wrote:

Deadgoat wrote:

DJ wrote: Yup,he told me the only time he has taken anything was last year during his prep 9 weeks out the doc gave him a single should sustonan as he was feeling depressed and battling and blood test showed his test levels were low...

So blood tests show he's got low T levels and his doc only prescribes a single shot of sust to cure him of this? Either his doctor's not particularly bright or he needs to get better at lying.

as much as u may think he is a liar,alot of doctors do that,a normal GP doesnt always understand the ins and outs of steroid use actually, do u know i taught my GP about PCT as she had minimal knowledge about it? so not all doctors are experts like u deadgoat.There is actually a doctor in Ballito in durban,the minute u have low test levels he sticks you straight on to nebido, that's what the same doctor prescribed to one of the users on this forum,who is about 23 years old,yet when he spoke to doctari he was told to do his pct again,and if he came back with low levels again to re do it a third time. so as u can not all doctors are able to deal with all these problems. Justin competes naturally,as hard as it may be for u to believe that he is nearly 40,so if u look at how he has progressed every year and only competing 8-9kgs heavier than he did in his first show u can actually see he inst lying. so dont accuse/presume people of lying when its clear that they arent.

I can believe that he is natural, for the effort he puts into his bodybuilding he would have been a lot bigger if he was not...

by the way, a much more controversial question would be: how did john leslie's teardrop magicaly regrow after being cut out almost completely... mmm :woohoo: think I might know...

I respect that kind of commitment,its hard enough getting the goals you want with juice,he must really be patient and a great guy to meet.
I can't believe he is nearly 40 amazing

i dont know thunderbeast,ask him on facebook,not sure if he will give u the answer u are looking for but he is a world class guy who will help any one

DJ wrote: i dont know thunderbeast,ask him on facebook,not sure if he will give u the answer u are looking for but he is a world class guy who will help any one

Not saying he isn't, besides... that is a shit thing that happened to him. and it could happen to anyone of us... was actually just really interested in how they kind of fixed it...

DJ I didn't say I don't think he's natty as I don't know his stats and lifts but based on that story about him going to his doc I think it was fair to say either he's doc wasn't too clued up or he was lying about it.

Deadgoat wrote: DJ I didn't say I don't think he's natty as I don't know his stats and lifts but based on that story about him going to his doc I think it was fair to say either he's doc wasn't too clued up or he was lying about it.

Did you read what DJ posted properly? The guy had low test levels 9 weeks out from a contest. He wasn't trying to do TRT.

Yes I know but 1 shot of sust for low T levels is like putting a plaster on a gunshot wound, don't think even some tribulus would've hampered his contest prep that much