Clen really the best ????

I read on another website that Clen is the best for fat loss?do you guys agree??

For some unknown reason i get very sick while on clen. I have used it twice, and both times i got very sick??

For fatloss try something like 100mg's EOD test prop and 80mcg of T3 . That made my bud loose plenty of fat.Provided the diet is in check.

What is T3 exactly i have read about it but there's not too much written about it.Can anyone of you maybe give a short description?

Clenbuterol
(Clen)
Clenbuterol (Clen) is a selective beta-2 agonist/antagonist and a bronchodilator. What this means, is that it stimulates your beta-2 receptors. Of great importance, is that Clenbuterol is a selective beta-2 agonist (because it works selectively on the beta-2-andrenergic-receptors), right? The thing is, Clenbuterol is selective...like hitting a tack (the tack being your beta-2 receptors) with a small hammer (the hammer being the Clen)...thus, it hits the beta-2 receptors selectively. Sorry if that seems repetitious, but its very important to understand that fact before we move on. Since clenbuterol has very little beta-1 stimulating ability, it has the ability to reduce certain kinds of airway obstruction without much in the way of cardiovascular effect (more about that later), and this is why it is used as an asthma medication.

So what exactly dose a stimulant like Clenbuterol (or Ephedrine) do when it stimulates those Beta Receptors? Well, it serves to increase your body temperature a bit by increasing heat production in the Mitochondria, increase your basal metabolic rate, and decrease your appetite (1). This partly explains how Beta-2 agonists directly stimulate fat cells and increase lypolysis (fat-loss)(1)(13). And also, because it is a Beta-2 agent, clen can decrease insulin sensitivity (2), unfortunately.

Clenbuterol Fat Loss
Clenbuterol is a very effective repartitioning agent, and this is what its most often used for in athletic circles. It will increase your ratio of Fat Free Mass (FFM) to Fat Mass, by decreasing your Fat and possibly increasing your FFM (3). Lets quantify that a bit:

In one study, horses given a semi-reasonable dose of clen (slightly over 1mcg/lb x2 a day) and exercised for 20mins, 3x a week ( I suppose they were Mentzer disciples) had significant decreases in %fat (-17.6%) and fat mass (-19.5%) at week 2, which was similar to Clenbuterol given to horses who didnt exercise; in contrast, the exercised group had a different FFM response, which significantly increased (+4.4%) at week 6 (3). Week 6! Heres a chart illustrating the changes in % of Body Fat experienced in the various test groups, followed by a chart showing the increase in Fat Free Mass experienced by the same groups:



Changes in percent body fat (%fat) over time in clenbuterol and exercise (ClenEx; A), clenbuterol only (Clen; , exercise only (Ex; C), and control (Con; D) groups. Means with different letters (A and are significantly different.



Changes in fat free mass (FFM) over time in Clenbuterol Ex (A), Clen (, Ex (C), and Con (D). Means with different letters (a-c) are significantly different.

I think those charts should clearly illustrate the repartitioning effects of Clenbuterol, even though it is known that its effects on animals are typically much more dramatic than in humans& .Theres still no doubt about it, in my mind Clen will help you lose fat and gain muscle.

So Lets re-examine that first point I made: Clen vs. clen+ exercise produce roughly the same results for the first 2 weeks! This tells me that the 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off schedule for clen dosing is far from optimal, and if you want the quasi-anabolic effect from the clen, itll take more than 2weeks on (6 weeks apparently). In addition, since Clenbuterol alone is similar to clen+ exercise for those first 2 weeks...why would you ever use a 2on/2off protocol? Keep in mind that animal responses to beta-agonist/antagonists differ a bit from ours but Im sure that you get the idea that 2on/2off is not a great dosing protocol. If I were using clen, Id be using it for 6-12 weeks at a time, if I expected to get maximum results from it, but certainly, the most dramatic effects on fat loss appear to be in weeks 1-2. The reasons for the further increase in FFM around week 6 despite no changes in %fat or fat mass is not easily explained... It might be that clenbuterol can increases FFM through another nonreceptor-mediated pathway, which would be very good for us, since the anabolic effects would also be applicable in humans, despite the fact that animals often respond more dramatically to beta-agonist/antagonists, due to receptor properties.. However, clenbuterol is highly lipophylic and can also enter muscle tissue (12), so that could indicate a possible mechanism of work. Maybe that would explain the significant increase in FFM of 13 kg in at 8 wks in the study? Certainly, muscle protein synthesis (MPS) must be a part of it, since clen will increase MPS in your body (17)& But it has even been speculated that the growth-promoting effect of clenbuterol may be specific to muscle and that the drug may act in a not-yet-understood manner which circumvents (!) the physiological mechanisms responsible for the control of muscle growth (13). This may mean that clenbuterol can help blast you past "sticking points" in your training by circumventing the usual mechanisms by which anabolism is experienced! It is of note that both muscle composition and fiber size has been shown to increase with administration of clen (14).

In any case, Clearly the results you want to reproduce for yourself are those to be gained by clen + exercise, for 6 weeks or more. This type of dramatic anabolic effect hasnt been confirmed in human studies (, but the anabolic effects of Clenbuterol in animal (specifically equine and rodent) studies are clearly quite astounding.

Now that I told you how great clen is; Ill tell you how to take it&

Clen has a biphastic elimination, which means that it is technically reduced in your body in 2 different stages. This isnt particularly important, as a recent study has shown that for most intents and purposes, clen concentrations in the body decline with a life (approximately) equivalent to 7-9.2hours and again up to as much as 35 hours later(4)(5). If youre really interested, though, clen technically declines biphastically at 10 and then 36 hours. But really, in our little world, where we use life to tell us when to take our next dose, who the hell is going to take Clenbuterol, then a dose 10 hours later, then a dose 36 hours later? Well stick with the earlier 7-9 hour life for dosing purposes, and take our clen every 3.5-4.5 hours that were awake, stopping early enough to still be able to get to bed. Clenbuterol can, in some people, cause insomnia (and as with all stimulants, can cause anxiety in some). Recently, its become popular to take a whopping dose of clen in the morning, and thats it for the day. Theres nothing wrong with this, I guess, but Id rather not go through that kind of roller-coaster of sweating and shaking until it wore off.

Clenbuterol Cycle
Based on its rate of elimination from the body, and how much is usually needed to be effective for athletes, my recommendations are the same for both men and women. Youll need to take 20mcgs upon rising, and then repeat that same dose again later in the day, and then once again in that day (if you find you can tolerate the effects). So youll start with 20mcgs, and then repeat that dose 2 more times that same day if you can tolerate it (side effects will determine this hand shaking, sweating, etc& classic stimulant sides). Then you can start increasing the dose gradually. Personally, I wouldnt work my way up to more than 200mcg/day. 60-120mcg/day is an average dose. And keep your Blood Pressure at (or under) 140/90, while on clen, just to be safe. If you go over that, lower the dose. Youll also want to know your body temperature, upon rising, for the week before you start taking your clen, and then monitor it (again, as soon as you wake up) throughout your Clenbuterol regimen. When it returns to the level it was at before you began taking the clen, youll need to start taking your Benadryl or Ketotifen, as the decrease in Body Temperature back to original levels indicates the thermogenic effect is beginning to decline.

Clenbuterol can also cause a downregulation in testicular androgen receptors and in pulmonary, cardiac and central nervous system beta-adrenergic receptors(6.) possibly making steroids less effective (if there is androgen receptor downregulation elsewhere as well, then its highly probable) while you are on clen; but definitely making clen less effective as time goes on and you keep taking it. To counteract this, you can take some ketotifen every 3rd or 4th week that you remain on clen. Its a prescription anti-histimines, so itll make you drowsy (take before bedtime). Basically, the way this works is to reduce beta-2 receptor activity, and restore receptor function (15).

Another option, if you are worried about receptor downgrade, is taking Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week). Benadryl is sold as an anti-histamine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cells outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitization of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly. (7). This will allow you to use clen for much longer and itll still have the same effects. Also, since Benadryl is an anti-histamine, and histamines have a direct effect on beta-adrenoreceptors (not just Beta-2s but all of them), using an anti-histamine will have a direct effect on reducing beta-receptor stimulation (16), and thus upregulating your beta-receptors.

Ephedrine
Since were speaking about beta-receptors and upregulation, here, let me address the claim that you can use ephedrine (or the ECA stack), alternating with clen, in order to avoid receptor downgrade. Im not sure where this rumor came from, but it is totally incorrect.

To dispel this myth, lets examine ephedrine for a second. Remember when I said that using clenbuterol to stimulate the beta-2 receptors is like hitting a tack with a hammer? Well, Ephedrine is like a sledge-hammer, it hits the beta-2s and everything around them. Thats because its not selective, but rather it stimulates other receptors to a great degree as well.

Anyway, one of those receptors that ephedrine hits is the Beta-2 (yeah...the same one as Clen). As you can see from the graph below (ephedrine is represented by the the solid circles), it reduced Beta-2-AndrenergicReceptor (what we call, in laymens terms, the "Beta-2 receptor") levels to 32% of the control level after 24 hours. Read this again:

Ephedrine, in this study, reduces Beta-2 receptor levels to 32% of control after 24 hours.

(see the solid circles in this graph represent ephedrine)



Granted, its not perfect, its not in vivo, etc...But theres no denying that ephedrine will down regulate beta-2 receptors....ergo you will not be able to use it on the weeks in between your Clenbuterol to upgrade your receptors.

Clenbuterol Side effects
Also, bear in mind that clenbuterol has some side effects. It isnt great for your heart, and can cause some issues there (enlargement of ventricles, etc, ) but most studies showing clen to cause heart problems are with animals, and even though the dosing is almost similar to what humans take (in some studies its within the range of what would be double of a large human dose...) its important to remember that animals have more beta-2 receptors and they cause certain event chains that humans beta-2 receptors may not. Clen causes cardiac hypertrophy and cardiac necrosis (cell death) to some degree, in some cases. Again though, many studies showing the more significant, possibly irreversible, heart problems are with mg dosing. We humans take clen in mcg doses.

If we want to duplicate those "theraputic" levels of Clenbuterol seen in the more conservative studies, wed still be taking just over 1mcg/lb of bodyweight, twice a day. Id suggest a bit less than half of that dose, however.

Performance issues with clen also vary. Some studies show reduced exercise (cardiovascular) performance with clen (9), while some show that clen can alleviate exercise induced asthma (10)!Clearly, this compound will have different effects on different people, and I suspect that a lot of it is sports specific. Many bodybuilders claim that clen makes it difficult for them to do cardio, yet I can play a full game of rugby on it. You need to figure out how it affects you, and tailor your dose personally.

Finally, this brings me to the issue of cramps while on Clenbuterol. I dont get them. My friends dont get them. Most of us are athletes who use clen during the season as well as the off season, and one of my friends even claims that it gives him more "wind" (cardiovascular stamina). Take on enough water every day and you should be fine. If youre really concerned, you can take some extra minerals and taurine, since clen depletes taurine (11) as do most if not all beta-agonists. I dont take anything more than my usual vitamins and minerals

Cytomel (T3)
Home >> Steroid Profiles >> Cytomel (T3)



CEM-Meso Liquid T3
60mL 150mcg/mL




Cytomel is not an anabolic/androgenic steroid but a thyroid hor­mone. As a substance it contains synthetically manufactured liothyronine sodium which resembles the natural thyroid hormone tricodide-thyronine (L-T3). The thyroid of a healthy person usually produces two hormones, the better known L-thyroxine (L-T4) and the aforementioned L-trilodine~thyronine (L-T3). Since Cytomel is the synthetic equivalent of the latter hormone, it causes the same processes in the body as if the thyroid were to produce more of the hormone. It is interesting to note that L-T3 is clearly the stronger and more effective of these two hormones. This makes Cytomel more effective than the commercially available L-T4 compounds such as L-thyroxine or Synthroid. The manufacturer of the German L-T3 compound, Hoechst AG, ascribes the following characteristics to its Thybon drug, making it clear that L-T3 is superior to L-T4: "The synthetically manufactured thyroid hormone, L-trilodine-thyronine (L-T3), included in Thybon, in experimental and clinical testing has proven to be 4-5 times more biologically active and to take effect more quickly than L-thyroxine (L-T4)." In school medicine Cytomel is used to treat thyroid insufficiency (hypothyroidism). Among other secondary symptoms are obesity, metabolic disorders, and fatigue. Bodybuilders take advantage of these charcteristics and stimulate their metabolism by taking Cytomel, which causes a faster conver­sion of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats. Bodybuilders, of course, are especially interested in an increased lipolysis, which means in­creased fat burning. Competing bodybuilders, in particular, use Cytomel during the weeks before a championship since it helps to maintain an extremely low fat content, without necessitating a hunger diet. Athletes who use low dosages of Cytomel report that by the simultaneous intake of steroids, the steroids become more effective, most likely as the result of the faster conversion of protein.

Until recently, Cytomel was used by bodybuilders and female bodybuilders, in particular-on a daily basis over several months to remain "hard" and in good shape all year round. Believe us when we tell you that to a great extent several bodybuilders who are pictured in "muscle magazines" and display a hard and de­fined look in photos, eat fast food and iron this out by taking Cytomel. The over stimulated thyroid burns calories like a blast furnace. Nowadays, instead of Cytomel, athletes use Clenbuterol which is becoming more and more popular. Those who combine these two compounds will burn an enormous amount of fat. The next time you read that a certain pro bodybuilder approach­ing a championship competition is still eating 4000 calories a day, you will know why. Cytomel is also popular among female bodybuilders. Since women generally have slower metabolisms than men, it is extremely difficult for them to obtain the right form for a competition given today's standards. A drastic reduc­tion of food and calories below the 1000 calorie/day mark can often be avoided by taking Cytomel. Women, no doubt, are more prone to side effects than men but usually get along well with 50 mcg/day. A short-term intake of Cytomel in a reasonable dosage is certainly "healthier" than an extreme hunger diet.

As for the dosage, one should be very careful since Cytomel is a very strong and highly effective thyroid hormone. It is extremely impor­tant that one begins with a low dosage, increasing it slowly and evenly over the course of several days. Most athletes begin by tak­ing one 25 mcg tablet per day and increasing this dosage every three to four days by one additional tablet. A dose higher than 100 mcg/ day is not necessary and not advisable. It is not recommended that the daily dose be taken all at once but broken down into three smaller individual doses so that they become more effective. It is also impor­tant that Cytomel not be taken for more than six weeks. At least two months of abstinence from the drug needs to follow. Those who take high dosages of Cytomel over a long period of time are at risk of developing a chronic thyroid insufficiency. As a consequence, the athlete might be forced to take thyroid medication for the rest of his life. It is also important that the dosage is reduced slowly and evenly by taking fewer tablets and not be ended abruptly. Those who plan to take Cytomel should first consult a physician in order to be sure that no thyroid hyper function exists.

Possible side effects such as medication are described in the package insert by the German pharmaceutical group Hoechst AG for their compound Thybon: "Exceeding the individual limits of compatibil­ity for liothyronine or taking an overdose, especially, if the dose is increased too quickly at the beginning of the treatment, can cause the following clinical symptoms for a thyroid hyperfunction): heart palpitation, trembling, irregular heartbeat, heart oppression, agita­tion, shortness of breath, excretion of sugar through the urine, ex­cessive perspiration, diarrhea, weight loss, psychic disorders, etc., as well as symptoms of hypersensitivity." Our experience is that most symptoms consist of trembling of hands, nausea, headaches, high perspiration, and increased heartbeat. These negative side effects can often be eliminated by temporarily reducing the daily dosage. Cau­tion, however is advised when taking Cytomel since, especially in the beginning, the effect can be quick and sometimes drastic. Ath­letes do not use the injectable version of L-T3, this is normally used as "emergency therapy for thyrotoxic coma." Those who use Cytomel over several weeks will experience a decrease in muscle mass. This can be avoided or delayed by simultaneously taking steroids. For the most part, since Cytomel also metabolizes protein, the athlete must eat a diet rich in protein.



Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/c...el.htm#ixzz1I9z8JWnO

Pumped i think for a begginner a t3 and prop cycle is a little excessive.

Clen or ECA is the way to go, and yes it will help with fat loss. How you feel on it will depend on your bodies sensitivity to stimulants

hi
hope this helps von burick...
best results i had for losing fat and keeping muscel is a clen(140mcg)and a T3/4 mix was real good for me imho

Basically speaking T3 is a thyroid hormone, which means it has a direst effect on the thyroid and effectively metabolic rate. It needs to be stacked with a steroid such as testosterone due to the fact that metabolism is not selective of muscle or fat, so the test is needed to maintain muscle mass.

spike...
will clen not help keep some of the muscel?in my experience i didnt loose much if any muscel hard to tell thou...makes what you saying thou i agree with you but t3 or t4 on its own ia a waist imho...?
l-troxine is a better call for me in that case?

Vonburick, to answer your question, it depends......

Clen is great for cutting

T3 is great for cutting

Heat (ECA) is great for cutting

The BEST thing for cutting is a proper diet!

So, everything will depend on HOW much fat you need to lose. What are your stats? What is current BF? How long you been training? What are your goals? How does your diet look at the moment? etc etc etc....

There is never a simple answer really.

vlakkie wrote: spike...
will clen not help keep some of the muscel?in my experience i didnt loose much if any muscel hard to tell thou...makes what you saying thou i agree with you but t3 or t4 on its own ia a waist imho...?
l-troxine is a better call for me in that case?

Better to run even base line Test dosage per week than just Clen. T3 can really chow muscle at higher doses. It's good to run T3 and Clen, they work well together but you should run Test as well. It seems that about 200mg Test pw is the minimum, where you should start. I'm running 350mg Prop with T3 and Clen at the moment, and it's worked incredibly well for me.

Oh and btw, it's nice to see you are now reading up Vlakkie. Only way to learn bud.