when to stop proviron

hi
i have finished my cycle of test cyp on 25/11/2010 (12 weeks at 600mg/week). i used proviron throughout my cycle at 50mg ed to prevent aromatization. after being advised under the pct section, i plan on starting my pct after 2 weeks. should i continue the proviron till the day before my pct begins

Yes, until the day before pct

Fakey_AK wrote: Yes, until the day before pct

The day before you begin Clomid, yes.

Agreed

thanks guys and for future reference, is it necessary to use right from the start of the cycle(test) till the end because its one hell of an expense.

ice-rip wrote: thanks guys and for future reference, is it necessary to use right from the start of the cycle(test) till the end because its one hell of an expense.

Deepens why you using it mate. In the initial post u mention that proviron prevents aromatization which it doesnt as the compound has no interaction with the aromatase enzyme. the only way that proviron mitigates oestrogen-related side effects is because of the fact that the compound is structurally identical to DHT which itself is an antagonist of oestrogen. However, as with the case of either an anti aromatization compound or estrogen antagonist, one could get away with not using either until week three when your long-estereed test and cyp compounds start releasing. However, if using sustanon or fast acting prop id say its good to get cracking in the very first week.

thanks GSP. is it really necessary and what are the benefits of it. i have also heard that one should run 20mg kessar ed throughout the cycle. is that necessary or should it only be saved for pct

Hey Ice.

How have your gains been?

Got any before & after pics for the forum?

Peace...

ice-rip wrote: thanks GSP. is it really necessary and what are the benefits of it. i have also heard that one should run 20mg kessar ed throughout the cycle. is that necessary or should it only be saved for pct

In my personal opinion, one could run proviron on cycle to limit estrogen side effects such as water bloat and possibily gyno, provided that your test dosages are not too high and that you have established that you not sensitive to estrogen-related side effects. Its more cost effective than using arimidex which is more expensive and its also less harsh than using Letro (femara) which would basically kill all free estrogen in your body. I would say that proviron definately has its benefits because of this reasons, but since i dont have a predispoition to estrigen-related sides, i usually run the compund in the last 3 weeks of my cycle up to and including the bridge before pct. One benefit that i love from proviron is the increase in libido and i do feel it gives me a bit more aggression when hitting the gym.

As for adding nolvadex to a cycle, there is a lot of debate regarding its use during a cycle or solely for pct purposes. The major factor that sways me in favour in using nolvadex only for pct is that when is running a cycle, particularly a bulker, estrogen plays an important and often overlooked role in building muscle. By using kessar, which is a SERM, as opposed to an AI such as arimidex, u effectively negating all positive benefits derived from estrogen in the muscle building process. However, some say the role taht estrogen has to play is negligible and these guys tend to use nolvadex instead of an AI throughout the course of teh cycle and into pct without much problem. However, as nolvadex is relatively hepatoxic, i wouldnt advise against using it for an extended period of time.

This is just my opinion and im sure guys would differ with me on the subject.

Rowan wrote: Hey Ice.

How have your gains been?

Got any before & after pics for the forum?

Peace...

nothing that i would be confident posting up right now. until DJ advised me last week, i was scoffing down tons of bread and poor quality carbs which lead to lots of fat. i have cleaned up my diet as per his recommendation splitting up my P+C meals (breakfast, pre and post workout ) and P+F meals in between and already noticed a difference in a few days. i'll post up soon but overall gained around 10-12kgs.

GSP wrote:

ice-rip wrote: thanks GSP. is it really necessary and what are the benefits of it. i have also heard that one should run 20mg kessar ed throughout the cycle. is that necessary or should it only be saved for pct

In my personal opinion, one could run proviron on cycle to limit estrogen side effects such as water bloat and possibily gyno, provided that your test dosages are not too high and that you have established that you not sensitive to estrogen-related side effects. Its more cost effective than using arimidex which is more expensive and its also less harsh than using Letro (femara) which would basically kill all free estrogen in your body. I would say that proviron definately has its benefits because of this reasons, but since i dont have a predispoition to estrigen-related sides, i usually run the compund in the last 3 weeks of my cycle up to and including the bridge before pct. One benefit that i love from proviron is the increase in libido and i do feel it gives me a bit more aggression when hitting the gym.

As for adding nolvadex to a cycle, there is a lot of debate regarding its use during a cycle or solely for pct purposes. The major factor that sways me in favour in using nolvadex only for pct is that when is running a cycle, particularly a bulker, estrogen plays an important and often overlooked role in building muscle. By using kessar, which is a SERM, as opposed to an AI such as arimidex, u effectively negating all positive benefits derived from estrogen in the muscle building process. However, some say the role taht estrogen has to play is negligible and these guys tend to use nolvadex instead of an AI throughout the course of teh cycle and into pct without much problem. However, as nolvadex is relatively hepatoxic, i wouldnt advise against using it for an extended period of time.

This is just my opinion and im sure guys would differ with me on the subject.

thank you for your wealth of knowledge. it was most useful.

you mentioned that "provided the test dosages arent too high" one could use proviron to help with estrogen related sides. what would you consider too high a dose/week

ice-rip wrote:

GSP wrote:

ice-rip wrote: thanks GSP. is it really necessary and what are the benefits of it. i have also heard that one should run 20mg kessar ed throughout the cycle. is that necessary or should it only be saved for pct

In my personal opinion, one could run proviron on cycle to limit estrogen side effects such as water bloat and possibily gyno, provided that your test dosages are not too high and that you have established that you not sensitive to estrogen-related side effects. Its more cost effective than using arimidex which is more expensive and its also less harsh than using Letro (femara) which would basically kill all free estrogen in your body. I would say that proviron definately has its benefits because of this reasons, but since i dont have a predispoition to estrigen-related sides, i usually run the compund in the last 3 weeks of my cycle up to and including the bridge before pct. One benefit that i love from proviron is the increase in libido and i do feel it gives me a bit more aggression when hitting the gym.

As for adding nolvadex to a cycle, there is a lot of debate regarding its use during a cycle or solely for pct purposes. The major factor that sways me in favour in using nolvadex only for pct is that when is running a cycle, particularly a bulker, estrogen plays an important and often overlooked role in building muscle. By using kessar, which is a SERM, as opposed to an AI such as arimidex, u effectively negating all positive benefits derived from estrogen in the muscle building process. However, some say the role taht estrogen has to play is negligible and these guys tend to use nolvadex instead of an AI throughout the course of teh cycle and into pct without much problem. However, as nolvadex is relatively hepatoxic, i wouldnt advise against using it for an extended period of time.

This is just my opinion and im sure guys would differ with me on the subject.

thank you for your wealth of knowledge. it was most useful.

you mentioned that "provided the test dosages arent too high" one could use proviron to help with estrogen related sides. what would you consider too high a dose/week

Depends mate; for estrogen sensitive ppl, a dose of 400mg may be enough to cause gyno and other estrogen-rrelated side effects. I on the other hand can get away with 800mg of test without any anti-I. However, i am extremely sensitive to DHT sides, particularly hairloss and acne. So its all pretty dose dependent. Its always best to just keep them all on hand and use them when needed.

GSP wrote:

ice-rip wrote:

GSP wrote:

ice-rip wrote: thanks GSP. is it really necessary and what are the benefits of it. i have also heard that one should run 20mg kessar ed throughout the cycle. is that necessary or should it only be saved for pct

In my personal opinion, one could run proviron on cycle to limit estrogen side effects such as water bloat and possibily gyno, provided that your test dosages are not too high and that you have established that you not sensitive to estrogen-related side effects. Its more cost effective than using arimidex which is more expensive and its also less harsh than using Letro (femara) which would basically kill all free estrogen in your body. I would say that proviron definately has its benefits because of this reasons, but since i dont have a predispoition to estrigen-related sides, i usually run the compund in the last 3 weeks of my cycle up to and including the bridge before pct. One benefit that i love from proviron is the increase in libido and i do feel it gives me a bit more aggression when hitting the gym.

As for adding nolvadex to a cycle, there is a lot of debate regarding its use during a cycle or solely for pct purposes. The major factor that sways me in favour in using nolvadex only for pct is that when is running a cycle, particularly a bulker, estrogen plays an important and often overlooked role in building muscle. By using kessar, which is a SERM, as opposed to an AI such as arimidex, u effectively negating all positive benefits derived from estrogen in the muscle building process. However, some say the role taht estrogen has to play is negligible and these guys tend to use nolvadex instead of an AI throughout the course of teh cycle and into pct without much problem. However, as nolvadex is relatively hepatoxic, i wouldnt advise against using it for an extended period of time.

This is just my opinion and im sure guys would differ with me on the subject.

thank you for your wealth of knowledge. it was most useful.

you mentioned that "provided the test dosages arent too high" one could use proviron to help with estrogen related sides. what would you consider too high a dose/week

Depends mate; for estrogen sensitive ppl, a dose of 400mg may be enough to cause gyno and other estrogen-rrelated side effects. I on the other hand can get away with 800mg of test without any anti-I. However, i am extremely sensitive to DHT sides, particularly hairloss and acne. So its all pretty dose dependent. Its always best to just keep them all on hand and use them when needed.

cool.

speaking of dht sides like acne, mine is actually getting worse. my dermatologist got me of 200mg of doxycycline ed and started me on roacuate 20mg ed and said that would work better. i have used roacutane at 80mg some 12 years ago and remember in the 1st two weeks that it actually aggrevated the acne and i broke out terribly before it all went away. i think the same thing is happening now as i am still in the first 2 weeks?????

is the proviron working against the roacutane to combat the acne???

ice-rip wrote:

GSP wrote:

ice-rip wrote:

GSP wrote:

ice-rip wrote: thanks GSP. is it really necessary and what are the benefits of it. i have also heard that one should run 20mg kessar ed throughout the cycle. is that necessary or should it only be saved for pct

In my personal opinion, one could run proviron on cycle to limit estrogen side effects such as water bloat and possibily gyno, provided that your test dosages are not too high and that you have established that you not sensitive to estrogen-related side effects. Its more cost effective than using arimidex which is more expensive and its also less harsh than using Letro (femara) which would basically kill all free estrogen in your body. I would say that proviron definately has its benefits because of this reasons, but since i dont have a predispoition to estrigen-related sides, i usually run the compund in the last 3 weeks of my cycle up to and including the bridge before pct. One benefit that i love from proviron is the increase in libido and i do feel it gives me a bit more aggression when hitting the gym.

As for adding nolvadex to a cycle, there is a lot of debate regarding its use during a cycle or solely for pct purposes. The major factor that sways me in favour in using nolvadex only for pct is that when is running a cycle, particularly a bulker, estrogen plays an important and often overlooked role in building muscle. By using kessar, which is a SERM, as opposed to an AI such as arimidex, u effectively negating all positive benefits derived from estrogen in the muscle building process. However, some say the role taht estrogen has to play is negligible and these guys tend to use nolvadex instead of an AI throughout the course of teh cycle and into pct without much problem. However, as nolvadex is relatively hepatoxic, i wouldnt advise against using it for an extended period of time.

This is just my opinion and im sure guys would differ with me on the subject.

thank you for your wealth of knowledge. it was most useful.

you mentioned that "provided the test dosages arent too high" one could use proviron to help with estrogen related sides. what would you consider too high a dose/week

Depends mate; for estrogen sensitive ppl, a dose of 400mg may be enough to cause gyno and other estrogen-rrelated side effects. I on the other hand can get away with 800mg of test without any anti-I. However, i am extremely sensitive to DHT sides, particularly hairloss and acne. So its all pretty dose dependent. Its always best to just keep them all on hand and use them when needed.

cool.

speaking of dht sides like acne, mine is actually getting worse. my dermatologist got me of 200mg of doxycycline ed and started me on roacuate 20mg ed and said that would work better. i have used roacutane at 80mg some 12 years ago and remember in the 1st two weeks that it actually aggrevated the acne and i broke out terribly before it all went away. i think the same thing is happening now as i am still in the first 2 weeks?????

is the proviron working against the roacutane to combat the acne???

Difficult to say mate as acne may not only be caused by SHT but generally any hormonal changes in your body. I get most of my breakouts while running pct strangely enough. So unfortunately i cant give you any diection in this regard.

GSP wrote:

ice-rip wrote:

GSP wrote:

ice-rip wrote:

GSP wrote:

ice-rip wrote: thanks GSP. is it really necessary and what are the benefits of it. i have also heard that one should run 20mg kessar ed throughout the cycle. is that necessary or should it only be saved for pct

In my personal opinion, one could run proviron on cycle to limit estrogen side effects such as water bloat and possibily gyno, provided that your test dosages are not too high and that you have established that you not sensitive to estrogen-related side effects. Its more cost effective than using arimidex which is more expensive and its also less harsh than using Letro (femara) which would basically kill all free estrogen in your body. I would say that proviron definately has its benefits because of this reasons, but since i dont have a predispoition to estrigen-related sides, i usually run the compund in the last 3 weeks of my cycle up to and including the bridge before pct. One benefit that i love from proviron is the increase in libido and i do feel it gives me a bit more aggression when hitting the gym.

As for adding nolvadex to a cycle, there is a lot of debate regarding its use during a cycle or solely for pct purposes. The major factor that sways me in favour in using nolvadex only for pct is that when is running a cycle, particularly a bulker, estrogen plays an important and often overlooked role in building muscle. By using kessar, which is a SERM, as opposed to an AI such as arimidex, u effectively negating all positive benefits derived from estrogen in the muscle building process. However, some say the role taht estrogen has to play is negligible and these guys tend to use nolvadex instead of an AI throughout the course of teh cycle and into pct without much problem. However, as nolvadex is relatively hepatoxic, i wouldnt advise against using it for an extended period of time.

This is just my opinion and im sure guys would differ with me on the subject.

thank you for your wealth of knowledge. it was most useful.

you mentioned that "provided the test dosages arent too high" one could use proviron to help with estrogen related sides. what would you consider too high a dose/week

Depends mate; for estrogen sensitive ppl, a dose of 400mg may be enough to cause gyno and other estrogen-rrelated side effects. I on the other hand can get away with 800mg of test without any anti-I. However, i am extremely sensitive to DHT sides, particularly hairloss and acne. So its all pretty dose dependent. Its always best to just keep them all on hand and use them when needed.

cool.

speaking of dht sides like acne, mine is actually getting worse. my dermatologist got me of 200mg of doxycycline ed and started me on roacuate 20mg ed and said that would work better. i have used roacutane at 80mg some 12 years ago and remember in the 1st two weeks that it actually aggrevated the acne and i broke out terribly before it all went away. i think the same thing is happening now as i am still in the first 2 weeks?????

is the proviron working against the roacutane to combat the acne???

Difficult to say mate as acne may not only be caused by SHT but generally any hormonal changes in your body. I get most of my breakouts while running pct strangely enough. So unfortunately i cant give you any diection in this regard.

thanks again