taking Nolvadex on cycle limit gains?

I am going on a 10 week test course 600 mg a week, with a frontload of dbol 40 mg a week. Someone told me that I should take Nolvadex while on cycle to reduce chances of gyno. By taking it on cycle will it reduce my gains in any way?

It can. But you dont need it throughout the cycle... Just keep it on hand and if you start to notice an itchy nipple then start some. It normally unnecessary to run it throughout, you most likely wont have a gyno problem

Nolvadex is better for PCT, use an AI for estrogen control.

oh ok! so taking proviron throughout the cycle would be a better option

I think Admin meant, Letro or Adex , but apparently Proviron does a good job as well.

Yes, Letro or Adex.

Proviron is not enough most of the times.

Diego wrote: I am going on a 10 week test course 600 mg a week, with a frontload of dbol 40 mg a week. Someone told me that I should take Nolvadex while on cycle to reduce chances of gyno. By taking it on cycle will it reduce my gains in any way?

From my experience, i would recommend not using a SERM (i.e. Novadex) as an anti-estrogen (Adex, letro) on cycle. The reason for this being that while the Nolvadex will prevent the estrogen from binding onto receptors and thus prevent conditions such as gyno, it doesnt limit the build-up of free estrogen in your body. thus when you stop the nolvadex cycle, your risk the chance of suffering an estrogen spike which make lead to gyno while in PCT for example. As admin stated, DHT derivative such as proviron can be used as anti-estrogen, not because it prevents the initial process of aromatization, but rather because DHT is an antogonist for estrogen. If this makes sense at all. however, as noted in persons sensitive to estrogenic side effects, the addition of proviron may not be enough. What i have found to be really effective and which will add in muscle gain and a more harder look when running aromatizing compounds such as test, is the addition of masteron. Really good as an estrogen antagonizer, adds some decent lbm, great pumps and insane strength. A bit pricey though.

I would like to know what pct protocol u should be following as before starting an AAS cycle, questions like these should already be answered. Not trying to come off as somewhat of a douchebag, but its always best to have ur ducks in a row and ur gear sorted before getting in over ya head.

Please note however in some cases and AI will not work, I can take 2.5mg of Letro that I can't even walk my knees and ankles are hurting so much but I will still get gyno and ONLY a SERM stops it from getting worse and takes the itchiness away.

I will now using a SERM during a cycle with a low dose of an AI.

I honestly do not feel a SERM will limit any gains, going out 1 Friday night and getting home at 3 will do more damage in that cycle than taking a SERM.

Also an AI will cause you to have less gains than a SERM. So to answer your question only, no I don't feel a SERM will limit gains.

00pump wrote: Please note however in some cases and AI will not work, I can take 2.5mg of Letro that I can't even walk my knees and ankles are hurting so much but I will still get gyno and ONLY a SERM stops it from getting worse and takes the itchiness away.

I will now using a SERM during a cycle with a low dose of an AI.

I honestly do not feel a SERM will limit any gains, going out 1 Friday night and getting home at 3 will do more damage in that cycle than taking a SERM.

Also an AI will cause you to have less gains than a SERM. So to answer your question only, no I don't feel a SERM will limit gains.

Still a bit unsure as to by what mechanism once can still get gyno using an AI, especially one as strong as Fermara (Letro). At 2.5mg of letro/day u pretty going to render any estogen aromatization obsolete, unless u running in excess of 1g test/week. Also, in terms of gains, im also unsure as to how an AI will lead to less gains than a SERM. Estrogen plays an important role in building muslce, however, its only beneficial if allowed to bind to the relevant receptors. As a SERM prevents any binding from taking place, u basically are not getting any benefits from the estrogen. With an AI, you can still get beneits of estrogen by just tapering the dosages appropriately to limit but not prevent the aromatization process.

i may have lost the plot here, but thats my basic understanding on the differences between AI's and SERMS. I do agree, however, that if gyno is expeinced whilst on cycle, that one needs to combat it with both SERMS and an AI

A SERM in the world of science is far less effective, and as little as 0.25mg of 'Ferma' can supress as much as 98% of estrogen. So my statement is based on science not theory. However, the statement comes to mind where everywhere you read on the net, you cannot combat gyno by combing both a SERM and an AI, however you get the exception to the rule, Aromasin. However I still don't know how true that is, it doesn't make sense.

Maybe if you are using something less potent like Adex then yes, you would have less effect on gains.. However, I need to dig allot deeper into this and need to speak to many a specialists to fully understand this. I do not understand how I get every sign that I have NO ESTROGEN... Dry joints to the point I can't walk, sex drive, what is that? I couldn't care who it was I feel nothing... Yes I still get puffy nipples, (no it is not progesterone related, as I have had this tested at the time) There is more to gyno than simple increase estrogen. Maybe supressed DHT levels as DHT is a natural AI.. Anyway, this is a conversation I will have another time when I have spoke to men who have studied in this area. Right now the way I see it is you can still experience gyno with supressed estrogen levels, ask me how? I don't have the answer to that, but it's clear as day, as I have had surgery twice and tried everything in the book. Right down to HUGE amounts of Masteron / Primoblan both which is used to treat breast tumors, proviron, Nolva at 80mg a day, Letro, Adex.. Letro, Aromasin, Nolva, Masteron and Primoblan and I STILL GET gyno. So what is the missing link?

00pump wrote: A SERM in the world of science is far less effective, and as little as 0.25mg of 'Ferma' can supress as much as 98% of estrogen. So my statement is based on science not theory.

Not questioning authority mate; just feel that debates like these help me become more informed. So while running high levels of letro what would trigger any gyno flare ups if you have basically rid yourself of any estrogen? I find that by cycling a less potent AI such as A-dex at 0.25mg every three days i still get the best of both world while running long-estered test at dosages of 800mg/week. But i guess everyone is different and we all experience different sensitivities to hormonal changes in our bodies. I for one may no have to many problems with estrogen, but DHT is always an issue; esp thinning air and acne.

GSP wrote:

00pump wrote: A SERM in the world of science is far less effective, and as little as 0.25mg of 'Ferma' can supress as much as 98% of estrogen. So my statement is based on science not theory.

Not questioning authority mate; just feel that debates like these help me become more informed. So while running high levels of letro what would trigger any gyno flare ups if you have basically rid yourself of any estrogen? I find that by cycling a less potent AI such as A-dex at 0.25mg every three days i still get the best of both world while running long-estered test at dosages of 800mg/week. But i guess everyone is different and we all experience different sensitivities to hormonal changes in our bodies. I for one may no have to many problems with estrogen, but DHT is always an issue; esp thinning air and acne.

I have edited my post... If you have anything to share I would be really intrigued. As little as 250mg of Test with the above 'gyno prevention stack' and I get gyno.

00pump wrote:

GSP wrote:

00pump wrote: A SERM in the world of science is far less effective, and as little as 0.25mg of 'Ferma' can supress as much as 98% of estrogen. So my statement is based on science not theory.

Not questioning authority mate; just feel that debates like these help me become more informed. So while running high levels of letro what would trigger any gyno flare ups if you have basically rid yourself of any estrogen? I find that by cycling a less potent AI such as A-dex at 0.25mg every three days i still get the best of both world while running long-estered test at dosages of 800mg/week. But i guess everyone is different and we all experience different sensitivities to hormonal changes in our bodies. I for one may no have to many problems with estrogen, but DHT is always an issue; esp thinning air and acne.

I have edited my post... If you have anything to share I would be really intrigued. As little as 250mg of Test with the above 'gyno prevention stack' and I get gyno.

Edited mine as well; forgive my stupidity regarding the progesterone issue as you would obviously have exhausted this avenue!!! Missed it in ur re-write. Yeah, it seems a bit of an anamoly and unless one is a specialist in the field we can postulate as much as we want as to what is causing the flare-ups. Even limited DHT levels in the system shouldnt effect the onset of gyno if there is no estrogen present to start with. The issue may well very lie in other horonal changes you undergo when on cycle. As i said before we can just postulate for the time being. Best advice i can give you, which u would probably bash me over the head with a dumbell for), is to run your nor derivatives in conjunction with some strong DHT derivatives and run one mother-fucker of intermittent and post cycle pct protocol. kamagra and cialis will also be your friend in this regard

It is an option I have thought about, I will now only do Primo cycles... I will speak with a plasic surgeon in the next week or so to chat to him about my surgery and will see what he thinks.

00pump wrote: It is an option I have thought about, I will now only do Primo cycles... I will speak with a plasic surgeon in the next week or so to chat to him about my surgery and will see what he thinks.

I have run deca/winnie cycles without test to know that i still get pretty decent results without the asscoaited loss of libido. PCT is always a bitch, however, but it definately doesnt mean than non-test cycles should not be considered. Any experince with some equipoise and perhaps some masteron? Can always frontload with some Tbol or run proviron and that should be a pretty sweet cycle?

i hope you find a solution to your dilemma bro and that you dont have to worry about this gyno again!!!