Another newb..

Hey guys.

Firstly - this is a really great site & I’ve learnt so much already just reading through some of the topics!

Okay, basically I’m 26 & my stats as follows:

weight - 80kg
height - 170cm
bf - 17%
bench - 100kg (6reps unassisted)
squat - 110kg (8reps)

Iv been gyming (playing the fool really) on and off for the last 6 years or so but seriously 5 days a week for the past 1 1/2 years. IV been happy with my gains and have been proud of the fact that IV done it naturally with just protein shakes & creatine. (although just did some 19 nor and was really happy with the results)

I feel iv hit numerous plateaus though and I need some 'help' busting through them.

My wife is dead set against 'roids and I have been too for a number of years, but the more I research, the more I see that lots of people really don’t know jack & just make unjustified & uneducated negative comments about steroids.

Can somebody guide me in terms of what a first time user can take? I’m not all about being massive & I don’t want to look like an obvious jabber. I’m also not too keen on needles.

I’m looking to get really ripped & put on quality muscle gradually & increase strength. I know roids like d-bol help put on mass super fast but most of it is water & you lose up to 85% of size & strength put on.

I was thinking of winstrol, clen & anavar to start out with?
I know orals are really toxic on the liver, but what can I do?

Your comments and advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys.

hey bud

1. most people will advise to drop some more body fat before starting
2. oral only cycle isn't really the way to go.
3. look at a standard test only cycle of 10 - 12 weeks. Pinning is really not sore.

My advise... drop the bf and do a test only cycle and maybe add a dbol kickstarter

Rowan wrote:

I was thinking of winstrol, clen & anavar to start out with?
I know orals are really toxic on the liver, but what can I do?

What can you do. . . facing needles sounds much better than destroying the only liver you have. . If you think about the damage off the shelf headache tablets can do, imagine what you'd be doing with stan & ana. I will agree with fakey, that is awesome for a first time user (providing you really research and know where youre going and what PCT's you will use, liver care etc). After that, you can revise your goals. Maybe after a couple cycles and refining diet and training, you can add in some EQ. ***IMO***

Just PLEASE research. .

well lets first off see your diet,thats where things start,if u arent getting in enough calories to grow then u are wasting your time,even on steroids u need to eat properly to make the most of your cycle.as a natural your diet is the only way that u are going to make progress... post up your daily meal plan,meal for meal,gram for gram and work from there...

thank you so much for the quick honest replies guys.

okay, so my proposed excuse for a 1st cycle stack sucks... :blush:

Lets say i go with Fakey and run standard test cycle for
10 -12 with the d-bol in front, help me with dosage pls guys. Bare in mind i dont want to get obvious results which scream that i've been jabbing - remember the wife...

would 30mg d-bol a day work if taken daily over 2 weeks?
which test? prop? How much test? How often to inject?

When to start pct? Would kessar be sufficient run alone or would i need to run pregnyl as well?

Sorry guys - i know these are really stupid questions which obviously shows i need to research more, but i would appreciate your help!

Dbol at that dose is fine, go for 3-4 weeks. Test id stick with a longer ester if you worried about injections. Test cypionate is the cheapest around. Run 500mg a week

spike is right. A long ester test would do u good. That way u will get use to injecting.

Plus u will see that pinning ur self is kinda addictive. I can't wait pinning myself eod with my next cycle.

Here a example of a good first cycle:

Week 1 - 4 dbol @ 30 - 40mg
Week 1 - 10 test cyp 500mg a week

Do u have any clue or knowledge of pct for ur cycle?

Honestly, I dont have much knowledge on PCT - let alone for this cycle that i am going to try.

I have done a bit of research last night though and a few sources have indicated that Clomid or Nolvadex are effective post cycle treatments.

Another source suggested that it would be most suitable to run a 3 week Clomid cycle 2 weeks after my last pin of test cyp.

what would you guys suggest?

yeah kessar and clomid is standard pct.
Clomid for a week @ 50mg then kessar for 3 weeks.

Like i said that is standard but if u wanna give it abit more of a proper one u can add hcg and aromisan. to get a better understanding on these 2 for pct go read doctari's pct protocol in the pct section.

But ur getting on the right track

I know I am new to this site but don't you guys think that a front load of d-bol and 500mg/wk test cyp will give VERY noticable results over 10 weeks.
I was the same when I first started juice in that I didn't want my girlfriend to find out, so I went with a very light, low dosage course.
If I were Rowen I would stick with the Anavar if you want to keep the Mrs happy.

Hey guys.
thanks again for the input.

Stuart has just highlighted my concern though. I have a cousin who ran d-bol and depotrone (which i think falls into the test cyp category?)

although i dont know the details of his dosages what i do know is after a month there was a HUGE difference in how he looked. It made me suspicious immediately!

How about a lower dosage of the test and a milder oral like winny? Would i just be wasting my time & money with this combo?

Also guys - gyno?
What are the chances of gyno with this proposed cycle? Im worried cos i know d-bol aromitazes big time. Not so much with winni tho.

thanks again.

Rowen, if you want to stick with the test I would run about 300mg/wk. I prefer test prop as it causes less water retention compared to the longer ester test cyp & eth. It will mean more injections per week, usually every second day. A cycle of test prop would be 100mg EOD, 3 jabs a week -300mg/wk for 8 - 10 weeks. You could also maybe add in some winny for a harder appearance, 50mg EOD would be fine for first coarse.

You should always run an anti-estrogen with amromatizing substances such as nolvadex (kessar) or clomid. Usually run about 40mg ED for last 2 weeks and 3 weeks after you finish. This will help with any estrogenic side effects such as gyno.
Also run HCG (pregnyl) after your coarse to help get your natural testosterone production back to normal.

STUARTF wrote:

Rowen, if you want to stick with the test I would run about 300mg/wk. I prefer test prop as it causes less water retention compared to the longer ester test cyp & eth. It will mean more injections per week, usually every second day. A cycle of test prop would be 100mg EOD, 3 jabs a week -300mg/wk for 8 - 10 weeks. You could also maybe add in some winny for a harder appearance, 50mg EOD would be fine for first coarse.

You should always run an anti-estrogen with amromatizing substances such as nolvadex (kessar) or clomid. Usually run about 40mg ED for last 2 weeks and 3 weeks after you finish. This will help with any estrogenic side effects such as gyno.
Also run HCG (pregnyl) after your coarse to help get your natural testosterone production back to normal.

If u wanna go this route u need to keep injection eod; monday, wednesday, friday, sunday, tuesday, thursday, saterday and so on. No skipping on the weekends.

I dont agree with kessar and clomid on cycle, rather use armidex or letro on cycle for that and keep kessar and clomid for pct with the hcg.

Thanks guys.

Ok - so all i need to do is decide whether or not to go with the cyp, enanth or prop. as it stands i think im leaning more toward the cyp (budget 1stly) and as i think being a newb i may want to pin not as often as with the prop.

p.s - any reason/s why i should stay away from depotrone?
If not, i think i may go with that.

Also guys, i dont think i want to front with the d-bol mainly cos of the water issue. I do definitely want to run the winni to get a hard look though.

when in the cycle would i run the winni?

could i run the winni during weeks 1-4 instead of the
d-bol? if d-bol is the only answer, then so be it...

i have heard running tamoxifen concurrently while running the d-bol is helpful in not taking on as much water - is this true?

Depotrone is test cyp. Dont think they make depotrone anymore but im not sure

Just go with test cyp from pgw (good bang for buck). u dont need the dbol, it just helps to kickstart the cycle so u dont wait 4 - 5 weeks to feel anything.

Add the winny in the last 4 weeks of ur cycle.