Will NPP 100 be sufficient

Sup fellas,

So I've done 3x Test only cycles. First 1 was Test Cyp @ 250, and the last 2 were Test E @ 300. This will be my 4th cycle and wanna add NPP 100mg, to a Test 300 cycle but not sure if I will even see a difference.

The goal is to pack serious mass and the thought process here is I've been doing 3mg/kg for quite some time now I wanna go to 5mg/kg (credit to OG Empire for formula/way of thinking)

Since I'm currently 83kg's that is 415mg(300 will be test, the remaining 100 will be NPP????)

Side note I totally know 3mg/kg of Test is 243 in my case, but I feel 300 is really the sweet spot for me. Never done over 300, and I don't see myself going over 300, ever.

Reason I want to use NPP is because I want to put on some solid mass (yes I understand you can pack muscle on DHTs too, but isn't a 19nor a better option for volume here???)

So, will 100mg do the job?

Thanks guys.

Oh and my stats in case they're needed, I'm 30 years old, been training for 12 years, 9 of those years 100% natty, 171 cms tall, 3300 calories. I'm happy with every other variable (nutrition, training, rests, supplements etc.)

remember your starting dose is 5mg per kg, working up over a period of time to more, so most people will get away with 8-10mg per kg at the top end of the cycle, especially for someone who has a few cycles under their belt. you could also look at other pharmacological avenues if you just wanted to stay at the 5mg per kg mark, GH, insulin etc.

you say 300mg is your sweet spot, but at 240mg, that will give you more room for other compounds. also you can base it on what you want to achieve. so for example, in a 16-week course, you can put on about 6-8kgs lean contractile protein.

so let's say ok you want to be 90kgs at the end of the cycle.

90x3mg is 270mg test so 300mg would be fine.

2mg is going to come from a 19nor or DHT: so 180-200mg is perfect.

if you are comfortable going up from 5mg per kg to say 8mg per kg, you would then do 2 dose increases in the first 8 weeks to max dose. so 6.5mg per kg (balance coming from your anabolics.) and then the second bump the 1.5mg for your anabolics again.

it's all up to where you want to push things.

I advocate lower and slower with multiple compounds and where I would feel comfortable being on an mg per kg basis. so if I do an off-season, I would say ok 10-12mg per kg is where my max dose needs to be, I am 90kgs, and i want to get to 100kgs. so max dose would be at the weight I want to be of 1.2g of gear a week.


remember, all steroids create contractile proteins and increase protein expression. EACH ONE HAS DIFFERENT EFFECTS. So dhts, fewer estrogen sides, but no massive cell volume, fewer issues with blood pressure. 19nors, more water retention, more cell volume, potential issues with prolactin and blood pressure. so 19nors for "mass" is going to be a good option, but is it going to be 100% solid? probably not, But a combo of 19nor and DHT would give you a better end result....

Does that make sense? so for a guy 185cm with a weight of like 75kgs, a 19nor cycle would make sense, whereas a guy 165cm with a usual weight of about 85-90kgs 19nors wouldn't be needed as they are stocky as fuck as is.


the right tool for the job.

1st of all, thanks mate, you really put out solid information/advice.


I don't have an end goal in terms of weight, I just go by body composition and to be honest I don't want to go beyond 87 kgs, I really find it accomfortable to carry around 88+ (been there once, wasn't fun)

However, the max I'm willing to go is around 7mg/kg total.

Okay, so I already have the UPA Test E on hand, which is 300. So if I think I'm understanding you correctly that means 85kg * 7mg = 595 (round it off to 600). I minus the 300 Test, I have room to play around with another 300 which I can borrow from the DHT and 19nor. 150 DHT and 150 19nor makes better sense than 300 19nor only, right?

P.S I get that if I opt for 250mg Test I get room to add other compounds, and I'm not ignoring that advice, it's just the 300 really does it bro.

Again, your contribution to the forum is second to none.

Yup, you got your calculation right. So you could do 200mg from npp/deca and 100mg masteron for the dht.

Interested on what the opinions are of the ratio of test to NPP is that you guys use?

I may be misunderstanding you empire but the first post is a NPP:Test of 2:1
The second calculation that seemed right is a 1:1

Which is the better option

How long is a piece of string.

End of the day testosterone is in the background doing the androgenic things it's needed to do. So pushing up npp can go up to higher ratios. Remember : estrogen is the main driver of sexual libido in men, so everyone who usually has shit when using deca and test because they use an ai and tank estrogen because they are worried about the water retention from the 19nor. Remember the effect you are wanting from a 19nor is water retention intra cellularly, and sadly extra cellularly happens as an effect. Everyone shits themselves and thinks that effect which is positive and its estrogen related mean while its a drug choice issue. Estrogen needs to be controlled, but not killed. Masteron to test at a 2:1 ratio usually tanks estrogen.

Also 19nors don't directly effect estrogen, but do affect estrogen through other pathways in the body. So I've seen guys go to a 2:1 19nor to test. And been fine.

Thanks man, Im particularly prone to things like gyno so im particularly cautious

I am usually fine on dosages around 300mg and less, which I am planning. So reckon I might run a 1:1 ratio and see how it goes

Now are you getting gyno from running high test or are you getting gyno from running 19nors. You say 300mg, but break that down to a mg per kg dose and you can tune in to figure where the issues are.

Ive never run a 19nor, this would be my first
Just test at various dosages

I hover between 85 and 92Kg

So what doses have you run in the past that have given you gyno issues..what is your current body fat level as that will also be one of the reasons why you have estrogen issues. Get that under control, and estrogen is under control. So looking at what I'm seeing, I wouldn't take you test over 250mg because of the e2 issue. That's how I would do it if you were working with me as a client.

And 7kgs is a big hover..I'm guessing body fat is in the 20% range. So 92-20% is about 70ish kgs so lower test for you would be the only way..

Ive run up to 500 per week, but gyno can occur from as little as 300 or 350
I am a realistic 15% bf at the moment, I want to drop a bit before cycling again

When i say hover its a misrepresentation.
I generally sit around 85Kg most of the time. If I cycle I can go up to 90 - 92
Water weight is alot, i drop 2 or 3Kg almost immediately off cycle

So then workout what weight you were when you got gyno at 300mg/ weight. Now you know where the threshold is.

I would post photos and I'd tell you if you are being realistic with your bf estimation bud..

Photos of me now are not realistic, I am 8 weeks post spinal surgery (anterior and posterior lumbar with decompression, fusion and prosthetics)

There are almost zero pics of me without a shirt, I really hate how I look so I find it very depressing looking at it. But I found one before surgery. Then there is one with vest normal and one with vest when I am on Test and the water weight starts (and probably some over eating), its really quick though (I do add tbol with it)

Just for interest, I added a pic of the xray checkup for my back, one of the best decisions of my life

15 to 18% is a good estimate.