Lipid control whilst on an oral cycle

Gurus, how do you deal with the HDL/LDL changes when doing an oral cycle?

I've previously just dosed with milk thistle and abstained from booze when on a cycle to deal with the liver damage but am worried about cholesterol control. I'm now thinking about doing a bit more and adding in either a prescription statin or use red rice yeast extract supplement to reduce LDL.

What are your thoughts?

Hi Bud.

Milk Thistle has been shown to interact with the androgen receptor and reduce the effectiveness of a cycle so that is why guys rather go with Liv 52 I think that is the name, and we in SA go with Essential Extreme 2 Caps twice a day.

Other than that do not skimp on EFA when on a oral cycle Omega 3 your body can not makr it so consume it go with 3000mg per day. I also like to use MNI Rychol with an oral. Hope that helps. I also believe Cardio helps but you also have to eat clean and healthy Avo helps balance the ratio.

Cholesterol is going to go up when on orals.

So focus to get it low before and after the cycle not just when on cycle.

I wouldn’t touch statins. 5e side effects can be horrific (muscle weakness and wasting, memory issues). Truth be told there are no conclusive studies that show a correlation between cholesterol levels and heart disease (conclusive from a statistical significance perspective - I am a statistician and have read the studies used to support the use of statins). The abstract of the main study used to support the use goes something like this: using a base population of patients that have had a previous cardiac event, the mortality rate drops by 50% over a two year period of observation vs the placebo group - sounds convincing and mos doces will quote this. The actual statistics show a change in mortality from 2 per 1000 patients to 1 per 1000 patients over the period. So relative reduction 2 to 1 is 50%, absolute reduction is negligible . Furthermore in the statin group the deaths from all other causes increases so there are in fact fewer people to die from a cardiac event when on statins than off. From my perspective it’s all garbage. What studies have shown that there is a positive correlation between cholesterol levels and old age I.e. those with the highest cholesterol in old age survive the longest.

In essence cholesterol is essential for brain function and is only elevated when there is a high level of inflammation in the body, which orals do cause, more than likely in the liver not necessarily systemically. The body produces excess cholesterol to simplistically patch up damage from inflammation. The best measure of your systemic inflammation is HCRP (C reactive protein) when coupled with a measure of triglycerides and blood pressure will give you an idea of real cardiac risk. One caution is free circulating triglycerides will be elevated during dieting as you release stored fatty acids into the blood stream.

The entire heart health hypothesis developed by Ancel Keys in the 1950 era is what underlies all the current thinking was based on garbage science (except for an increasing number of cardiologists that have moved away from this thinking).

In essence the best analogy I came across in one of the books was “blaming cholesterol for heart disease is like blaming firemen for fires because you always find them at the scene of the fire” yes you will find plaque (cholesteroll) in the arteries of those with athlosclerosis but the cholesterol is not the cause it’s the symptom.

The only theory as to why there is some effect from statins (the 2 to 1) was established in a study in Scandinavia which suggests that statins have a mild anti inflammatory effect.

There are some great books on the subject: “the big fat lie” “ the great cholesterol myth” to name just two.

My 10 cents worth - if anyone wants this detail from a cardiologist directly not from a hack like men there is one in joburg that has the same thoughts about life extension through treatment of the cause not the symptom. The big issue, certainly in the US, is liability if a doctor doesn’t follow “prescribed treatment protocols” regardless of their view. If you don’t prescribe statins when cholesterol is above the treatment indicated level and the patient has a cardiac event the doctor will be sued.

Statins are the devil! Crude medicine and rediculous side effects with sketchy results.

Here is something I hope everybody on the site can share with their friends: GARLIC TABLETS! It's not herbal therapy, it's not homeopathy, it is scientifically proven to be far superior to statins.

I disagree with what is said about cholesterol not having a proven correlation with heart disease. It has been proven beyond a doubt that not only correlation but causation is linked to an increased risk factor of heart disease.

There's an analogy between cholesterol and crack houses. If you want to restrict the number of crack houses, you could restrict access to bricks - thereby reducing the chances of one being built. But bricks are also used to build hospitals, and because of the restriction they can't be built either. Cholesterol is essential to hormonal balance, so restricting levels too much is counter productive.

In my opinion, it's keeping total cholesterol within low normal ranges and definately monitoring and controlling the balance of LDL and HDL, as well as controlling the insulin response that causes plaque.

Low cholesterol only starts affecting hormones at levels of 3 and less. If you use the devil's statins then I don't think this is a problem. After 3, your hormones are perfectly fine so I'm not sure what you are on about.

If it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, show me the studies. I have yet to find one. The correlations are tenuous and point more to the symptom than the cause.

Morrgear wrote: If it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, show me the studies. I have yet to find one. The correlations are tenuous and point more to the symptom than the cause.

Cholesterol is involved in normal regulations and functions of the human being, and they act much like that in that they are stored when their levels are too low. I'm not going to argue with somebody who honestly thinks that minute chikesterol levels don't affect testosterone production.