Ketamine for immediate relief from depression

My friend's friend is a 28-year-old male who has suffered from depression since he remembers, Recent studies have shown ketamine has relieved symptoms almost immediately (within an hour or two), has anyone had any experience with the medication, can this be prescribed by a doctor as an off-label medication for depression? Thanks

Found this on the following site:

www.sadag.org/index.php?option=com_conte...&catid=19&Itemid=144

The good news is that ketamine is already an FDA approved drug, and so mental health professionals are at liberty to use it on patients suffering from depression, bipolar disorder or even suicidal thoughts.

Sure Pump will be able to give his expertise.

Mehdi wrote: My friend's friend is a 28-year-old male who has suffered from depression since he remembers, Recent studies have shown ketamine has relieved symptoms almost immediately (within an hour or two), has anyone had any experience with the medication, can this be prescribed by a doctor as an off-label medication for depression? Thanks

That would be the last route I would go down. This is also the wrong forum to be asking such questions. Where does he live so I can see if I can provide a name of someone for him to see.

00pump wrote:

Mehdi wrote: My friend's friend is a 28-year-old male who has suffered from depression since he remembers, Recent studies have shown ketamine has relieved symptoms almost immediately (within an hour or two), has anyone had any experience with the medication, can this be prescribed by a doctor as an off-label medication for depression? Thanks

That would be the last route I would go down. This is also the wrong forum to be asking such questions. Where does he live so I can see if I can provide a name of someone for him to see.

00pump, I actually suggested that he ask the question on the forum so that you can offer advice, but if you can give a referral I think it would help allot.

admin wrote:

00pump wrote:

Mehdi wrote: My friend's friend is a 28-year-old male who has suffered from depression since he remembers, Recent studies have shown ketamine has relieved symptoms almost immediately (within an hour or two), has anyone had any experience with the medication, can this be prescribed by a doctor as an off-label medication for depression? Thanks

That would be the last route I would go down. This is also the wrong forum to be asking such questions. Where does he live so I can see if I can provide a name of someone for him to see.

00pump, I actually suggested that he ask the question on the forum so that you can offer advice, but if you can give a referral I think it would help allot.

Ok cool, I'll provide some information as soon as I have some free time.

Mehdi wrote: My friend's friend is a 28-year-old male who has suffered from depression since he remembers, Recent studies have shown ketamine has relieved symptoms almost immediately (within an hour or two), has anyone had any experience with the medication, can this be prescribed by a doctor as an off-label medication for depression? Thanks

Forget about treatment now... What signs of depression is he showing (need to be very specific). Does he have any other mental diseases, bipolar, schizophrenia ? Does he use recreational drugs? Does or is he using anabolics ? What other medication is he currently taking ? What medication has he been given and by who a GP or a psychiatrist? Was this medication stacked with other medication ? Is he an active person ? Does he have a stressful job? Does he have problems with sleep ? Any problems with his memory ? What about motivation ? Is he overweight ? Has he experienced trauma, the loss of someone close or anything else that has left a massive impact on him ? Is he an over achiever or someone that just gets by ?

Lets start there

Mehdi wrote: My friend's friend is a 28-year-old male who has suffered from depression since he remembers, Recent studies have shown ketamine has relieved symptoms almost immediately (within an hour or two), has anyone had any experience with the medication, can this be prescribed by a doctor as an off-label medication for depression? Thanks

Ketamine is an anaesthetic that induces a trance, hence a drug of abuse. Ketamine is absolutely not for depression the person will be an instant adict. Treating depression with Ketamine is pretty much the same as treating it with heroine.

Pyroclasm wrote: Ketamine is an anaesthetic that induces a trance, hence a drug of abuse. Ketamine is absolutely not for
depression the person will be an instant adict. Treating depression with Ketamine is pretty much the same as
treating it with heroine.

You sound like a high school teacher at a conservative Christian school. Not all "recreational drugs" exist because that's how they started. A lot originated as pharmaceutical come ups with totally different purposes in mind. In Vietnam, US soldiers used Speed to both help perform in the field and to reduce PTSD.

Taking a pharma dose of kitty won't make you an addict. It's nothing like heroin, it's even milder than PCP. For depression it's 100mg(oral). While sedation is could be upward of 600mg (less if injected). While recreational users dose a lot more per bump than the depression dose. (I'm not going to mention a dose cause I feel that will be violating forum rules)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems Mehdi thought it would be fitting for his friend because of the drugs quick onset and good lasting effect (instant fix until further help and analysis done). Kind of like an "emergency antidepressant" med. SSRI's take a couple of days to start working and MOAIs take even longer.

Just to make it clear, I'm not advocating the use of Ketamine, for depression, sedation, or otherwise. I'm saying just because a banned substance has a recreational use, does not mean it doesn't have therapeutic uses. I'm like, hello, we are AAS users.

Furk wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote: Ketamine is an anaesthetic that induces a trance, hence a drug of abuse. Ketamine is absolutely not for
depression the person will be an instant adict. Treating depression with Ketamine is pretty much the same as
treating it with heroine.

You sound like a high school teacher at a conservative Christian school. Not all "recreational drugs" exist because that's how they started. A lot originated as pharmaceutical come ups with totally different purposes in mind. In Vietnam, US soldiers used Speed to both help perform in the field and to reduce PTSD.

Taking a pharma dose of kitty won't make you an addict. It's nothing like heroin, it's even milder than PCP. For depression it's 100mg(oral). While sedation is could be upward of 600mg (less if injected). While recreational users dose a lot more per bump than the depression dose. (I'm not going to mention a dose cause I feel that will be violating forum rules)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems Mehdi thought it would be fitting for his friend because of the drugs quick onset and good lasting effect (instant fix until further help and analysis done). Kind of like an "emergency antidepressant" med. SSRI's take a couple of days to start working and MOAIs take even longer.

Just to make it clear, I'm not advocating the use of Ketamine, for depression, sedation, or otherwise. I'm saying just because a banned substance has a recreational use, does not mean it doesn't have therapeutic uses. I'm like, hello, we are AAS users.

Very good point, however let's get to understand the depression first, there is MANY medications that have extremely quick on sets, without answers to the questions I asked, we have 0 data to advise on.

Pyroclasm wrote:

Mehdi wrote: My friend's friend is a 28-year-old male who has suffered from depression since he remembers, Recent studies have shown ketamine has relieved symptoms almost immediately (within an hour or two), has anyone had any experience with the medication, can this be prescribed by a doctor as an off-label medication for depression? Thanks

Ketamine is an anaesthetic that induces a trance, hence a drug of abuse. Ketamine is absolutely not for depression the person will be an instant adict. Treating depression with Ketamine is pretty much the same as treating it with heroine.

There's been several recent studies suggesting ketamine may be useful for depression and chronic pain relief: www.scimex.org/newsfeed/worlds-largest-t...at-depression-begins

Eidolon wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote:

Mehdi wrote: My friend's friend is a 28-year-old male who has suffered from depression since he remembers, Recent studies have shown ketamine has relieved symptoms almost immediately (within an hour or two), has anyone had any experience with the medication, can this be prescribed by a doctor as an off-label medication for depression? Thanks

Ketamine is an anaesthetic that induces a trance, hence a drug of abuse. Ketamine is absolutely not for depression the person will be an instant adict. Treating depression with Ketamine is pretty much the same as treating it with heroine.

There's been several recent studies suggesting ketamine may be useful for depression and chronic pain relief: www.scimex.org/newsfeed/worlds-largest-t...at-depression-begins

And for sleeping disorders and many other things, however not currently FDA approved for off label use in sleep or depression yet. I do not believe it should be a first line defence for depression as depression can stem from so many places, hence requires full understanding of the depression / anxiety, from there medication can only go so far and you should then go through a proper channel where a psychologist works with you doing something like CBT or other type of therapy for 14 to 16 weeks and then a baseline of the minimum required medication be used, hence a close relationship between psychiatrist and psychologist. We are not medical professionals so we CANNOT advise unorthodox treatment because we read a couple pub med's or have personal experience with a substance. Without understand of the depression and where it comes from no medication should be advised, we run the risk of putting something further into depression or a psychotic state if the dosing of a medicine is not correct or someone is using some or other medication that has interactions.. The brain is a very delicate unit to work on and is not like the simplistic nature of testosterone or derivatives of it.

00pump wrote:

Eidolon wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote:

Mehdi wrote: My friend's friend is a 28-year-old male who has suffered from depression since he remembers, Recent studies have shown ketamine has relieved symptoms almost immediately (within an hour or two), has anyone had any experience with the medication, can this be prescribed by a doctor as an off-label medication for depression? Thanks

Ketamine is an anaesthetic that induces a trance, hence a drug of abuse. Ketamine is absolutely not for depression the person will be an instant adict. Treating depression with Ketamine is pretty much the same as treating it with heroine.

There's been several recent studies suggesting ketamine may be useful for depression and chronic pain relief: www.scimex.org/newsfeed/worlds-largest-t...at-depression-begins

And for sleeping disorders and many other things, however not currently FDA approved for off label use in sleep or depression yet. I do not believe it should be a first line defence for depression as depression can stem from so many places, hence requires full understanding of the depression / anxiety, from there medication can only go so far and you should then go through a proper channel where a psychologist works with you doing something like CBT or other type of therapy for 14 to 16 weeks and then a baseline of the minimum required medication be used, hence a close relationship between psychiatrist and psychologist. We are not medical professionals so we CANNOT advise unorthodox treatment because we read a couple pub med's or have personal experience with a substance. Without understand of the depression and where it comes from no medication should be advised, we run the risk of putting something further into depression or a psychotic state if the dosing of a medicine is not correct or someone is using some or other medication that has interactions.. The brain is a very delicate unit to work on and is not like the simplistic nature of testosterone or derivatives of it.

Oh no - definitely wasn't proposing anyone use it. As the article states:

“Some clinics in Australia and overseas continue to offer off-label ketamine treatments to patients with depression in an unsafe manner and with minimal care,” Professor Loo said.

“This practice is premature and irresponsible, given that the effectiveness and safety of this treatment approach involving repeated dosing has yet to be tested in controlled trials.”

I was just commenting on Pyro's assertion that it has absolutely no potential use as an anti-depressant. The trials may reveal unacceptable issues, and it's aimed at those with major depression who are unresponsive to conventional meds. It certainly doesn't sound like it is intended as a first-line treatment.

Eidolon wrote:

00pump wrote:

Eidolon wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote:

Mehdi wrote: My friend's friend is a 28-year-old male who has suffered from depression since he remembers, Recent studies have shown ketamine has relieved symptoms almost immediately (within an hour or two), has anyone had any experience with the medication, can this be prescribed by a doctor as an off-label medication for depression? Thanks

Ketamine is an anaesthetic that induces a trance, hence a drug of abuse. Ketamine is absolutely not for depression the person will be an instant adict. Treating depression with Ketamine is pretty much the same as treating it with heroine.

There's been several recent studies suggesting ketamine may be useful for depression and chronic pain relief: www.scimex.org/newsfeed/worlds-largest-t...at-depression-begins

And for sleeping disorders and many other things, however not currently FDA approved for off label use in sleep or depression yet. I do not believe it should be a first line defence for depression as depression can stem from so many places, hence requires full understanding of the depression / anxiety, from there medication can only go so far and you should then go through a proper channel where a psychologist works with you doing something like CBT or other type of therapy for 14 to 16 weeks and then a baseline of the minimum required medication be used, hence a close relationship between psychiatrist and psychologist. We are not medical professionals so we CANNOT advise unorthodox treatment because we read a couple pub med's or have personal experience with a substance. Without understand of the depression and where it comes from no medication should be advised, we run the risk of putting something further into depression or a psychotic state if the dosing of a medicine is not correct or someone is using some or other medication that has interactions.. The brain is a very delicate unit to work on and is not like the simplistic nature of testosterone or derivatives of it.

Oh no - definitely wasn't proposing anyone use it. As the article states:

“Some clinics in Australia and overseas continue to offer off-label ketamine treatments to patients with depression in an unsafe manner and with minimal care,” Professor Loo said.

“This practice is premature and irresponsible, given that the effectiveness and safety of this treatment approach involving repeated dosing has yet to be tested in controlled trials.”

I was just commenting on Pyro's assertion that it has absolutely no potential use as an anti-depressant. The trials may reveal unacceptable issues, and it's aimed at those with major depression who are unresponsive to conventional meds. It certainly doesn't sound like it is intended as a first-line treatment.

100 percent, started on a point then went off on some other thinking, not related to your post I'm not anti ketamine use at all and actually tried to be part of a trial for people with chronic sleep disorders, but my psychiatrist was not comfortable due to the early phase of trial and what long term damage could be done due to other elements of health I suffer from. Needless to say he was able to provide me a very unique reversal / recovery from the sleeping issue I had and I now no longer need sleeping tablets, I still do use something to help my sleep but it is not addictive and your body doesn't build up any tolerance, so like they say there is many ways to skin a cat.

00pump wrote:
100 percent, started on a point then went off on some other thinking, not related to your post I'm not anti ketamine use at all and actually tried to be part of a trial for people with chronic sleep disorders, but my psychiatrist was not comfortable due to the early phase of trial and what long term damage could be done due to other elements of health I suffer from. Needless to say he was able to provide me a very unique reversal / recovery from the sleeping issue I had and I now no longer need sleeping tablets, I still do use something to help my sleep but it is not addictive and your body doesn't build up any tolerance, so like they say there is many ways to skin a cat.

Yep. You don't always need to use a sword to skin a pussy, so to speak.

I should also have posted a word of caution when sharing the link, just to be prevent anyone from thinking I was condoning off-label use. Before anyone tries to pull a Michael Jackson...

I thought my post might stir up the troops. :lol: This topic is like religion or politics in that there are countless philosophies and on almost every idea every person might have extremely different opinions. I think that is why I enjoy it so much. Back to the Ketamine for depression idea I can see where you are coming from and yeah it's ironic from the steroid guys. Lol Allow me to explain my comment. For me it comes from the psychology of addiction. Remember nobody is born an addict except for crack babies- something in their lives triggered substance abuse. Find this and you have won half the battle. After decades, researchers have identified common traits in addicts, e.g. age, environmental factors, etc. One trait is particularly common in drug addicts- psychological factors, especially those with type A personalities, ADD, bipolar, borderline disorder, PTSD, etc. etc. and depression. Hence we can say that somebody with depression is particularly at risk to addiction. Think how easy it would be just to try to it once and see what all the hype is about- after all if you had yet another super crappy day it might sound pretty damn good. If this sounds incorrect please speak to a couple addicts and see if it sounds familiar.

From another angle, would it not be exactly the same thing to use a low dose Cocaine? If you think about it, Cocaine is a potent SSRI with immediate onset and is unlikely to cause addiction at low dose if used for a short period. You can use orally so none of the crappy nasal sides, and it doesn't give that rush that snorting gives. Would you be comfortable with this option? I wouldn't. For me the hammer is that there are non-addictive drugs that provide the desired effect, so why in the world would you choose to give Ketamine??

Nice topic guys, keep going.

I have to agree and disagree with alot that has been said here.

Pump, I'm not even going to try and compete with your experience and knowledge. You know what you're talking about.

But yeah, depression is a bitch and EVERY case has to be treated as unique. Doctors are too quick too treat everyone the same and then start playing around with different regimens until they find what works.

But simply popping a pill does not work. It is only a slice of the pie. The whole entity needs to be treated and that is with support from family and friends. That is critical. They cannot go it alone.

Cyclo wrote: I have to agree and disagree with alot that has been said here.

Pump, I'm not even going to try and compete with your experience and knowledge. You know what you're talking about.

But yeah, depression is a bitch and EVERY case has to be treated as unique. Doctors are too quick too treat everyone the same and then start playing around with different regimens until they find what works.

But simply popping a pill does not work. It is only a slice of the pie. The whole entity needs to be treated and that is with support from family and friends. That is critical. They cannot go it alone.

Good advice there.

Found this in my feed, not sure if this where OP heard of it originally.

+1 Furk! I love me some Ted talks. Interesting opinion I await some proper research on humans. Nothing to say she isn't right.

Seen a few people get hooked on ketamine. If you have addictive personality I would not even attempt treating depression with it. Just my opinion

I Followed this topic and want to share the latest with you guys.

IFL Ketamine Review

Firstly, it's important to note that they don't give the patients the recreational drug Ketamine, they give another form called Esketamine. There were no cases of reported drug abuse during the trials.

One of the most significant features of this treatment is the speed at which it can help tackle severe depression and suicidal thoughts. It is hoped that it could act as a bridge between diagnosis and the time it takes for more conventional antidepressants to become effective, which can often take a few weeks.

This week saw the results of a phase two clinical trial published in the American Journal of Psychology, with incredibly promising signs. The researchers took 68 patients who were at high risk of suicide, all of whom were placed on antidepressants. Half of the group, however, were also given twice weekly nasal sprays of esketamine while the others received a placebo. The trial was double-blind, meaning that even the doctors administering the spray were unaware which was which.

The results seem to show that the treatment was pretty effective. Within just four hours, both the doctors and patients were reporting that those had received the esketamine showed improved signs, something that was still noticeable after 24 hours. After 25 days of treatment, all 68 patients were measured but they found no significant difference between the esketamine and placebo group, indicating that the more conventional antidepressants had kicked in by then.

Good info Pyro, it’s promising to see a lot of different drugs being trialed in recent years in the treatment of depression, PTSD etc.

An important thing to remember with these treatments is the patients aren’t simply given Ket and sent on their way. I see a lot of replies in this thread commenting on “so and so that I know that’s addicted to ket/kat”. These are all therapeutic trials, using pharma drugs and proper therapy alongside the drugs. No one is suggesting that someone with depression should ask their local dealer for a baggie of nose candy.

There is very promising work going on at the moment surrounding PTSD being treated through the therapeutic use of MDMA. The last I’ve heard the trials in this area are entering the final phases and may be FDA approved in the States very soon.

We aren't actually allowed to discuss rec. drugs on this Site so best we steer clear from discussions about MDMA, etc. etc. although I follow this type of research like a hawk it's just so addictive.

If you looking at Ketamine, rather look at memantine.