Normal Testosterone

Hi ALL

New here, and need some advice. I have had blood test done to measure my Test levels.

Stats:
32 Male
1.86m
92kg
Never used any steroids.

Blood test:
Total Test = 8.3 nmol/L
SHBG = 26.9 nmol/L
Free Test = 179.5 pmol/L

Is this normal levels for my age? or very low?

Hey GrootD, welcome to the forum.

Which pathology lab did you use? They usually give a normal range alongside your result. Plus the labs don't release results directly to patients, you need to go through the doctor that prescribed the blood test. That means you would have had a consultation with him regarding the results, meaning he should've told you.

Which makes this a bit suspicious...

But...

Test seems low (lower than the regular healthy range)
SHBG is borderline in the healthy range.
Free test is also borderline in the healthy range.

Disclaimer: I am no doctor, I just compared it to the regular ranges.

Furk wrote:
Test seems low (lower than the regular healthy range)
SHBG is borderline in the healthy range.
Free test is also borderline in the healthy range.

Agreed

Thanks for the replies.

Ampath Pathologists.

Yes there was a range next to the numbers, and as Furk mentioned, Im just, just in the range shown on the results. Thats why I was worried. Surely "normal" would be around midway on the range?

No Dr involved, Test was originally just for blood type, I ticked the boxes for the various testo tests myself when I went to Ampath for the blood test. Then asked the Doc for a copy of the report.

Reason for asking on this forum is obviously to get advice about which products I can Use to increase these levels. I want to get these numbers up to the mid / higher end of the range. That should help me gain some muscle? Any Advice?

Ampath are usually anal about releasing results ...No, I've never had a enama from them, you know what I mean by anal.

GrootD wrote: No Dr involved, Test was originally just for blood type, I ticked the boxes for the various testo tests myself when I went to Ampath for the blood test. Then asked the Doc for a copy of the report.

I'm pretty sure you can get into trouble for that - glad you did it so easy and got away. I had many times in the past where I wish I just waltz in and ask for test & estro tests.

GrootD wrote: Reason for asking on this forum is obviously to get advice about which products I can Use to increase these levels. I want to get these numbers up to the mid / higher end of the range. That should help me gain some muscle? Any Advice?

That's just about every natural man's goals. If don't know about nutrition you can start by covering these bases:

1) Fatty beef, brazil nuts, broccoli, oysters, EFA
2) Zinc: Spinach, Beef, Oysters, Lobster, Kidney Beans, Flax Seeds, Pumpkin Seeds, Garlic, Eggs, Peanuts, Lima Beans, Turkey, Salmon, Pork, Dark Chocolate
3) Vitamin Cod Liver Oil, Fish, Fortified Cereals, Oysters, Caviar, Tofu, Soy Milk, Eggs, Mushrooms.

Additionally:
1) Make sure your lifting is intense enough. Don't be a pansy - exert yourself!
2) Start doing HIIT
3) Meditation/ relaxation/ breathing exercises

Hope it helps bud.

Furk wrote: I'm pretty sure you can get into trouble for that - glad you did it so easy and got away.

The person that allowed the tests can probably get into trouble, but I see no reason why he will have issues or am I missing something?

Those are definately in the lower the range which is not right for your age and I can help you. How long have you been lifting and like Furk said, how intense? What type of training do you do? Your bodyfat has a huge influence on your test levels. Could you give me an estimate of your bodyfat percentage?

I've never had a problem with doing blood tests on myself.. I grabbed a whole stack of forms and I just fill it in, what ever I'm asking for. I wasn't aware that a doctor had to request the information. And if I did get the doctor to do the bloods I ticked what I wanted too.. I've also had blood done before surgery while you waiting in the bed, so I ask what they checking for, and then ask them to please check abc too.

I'm paying for this information and it's information around my own body, or am I missing something ?

Ye I've always just gone straight to Lancet and had my bloods done and have never had an issue.

Im at about 20% Bodyfat on the Virgin guesstamite machine. But looking at the bit of flab around my stomach. I tend to Agree. Funny enough this is the only place I cant get rid of the flab. Around the rest of the body, I am quite lean, or maybe the fat is just less visible

I hit the Weights quite hard, always having a good sweat. leaving nothing on the table. 3day split. One day Pull, One day push, one day legs. Following this for the last 5 months. Before that on All pro. Lifting now for 14 months straight. 5-6 days a week. Only two off weeks were over dec, over Christmas and NY

Pull: Bent Over rows Barbell 3x12
Upward rows BB 3x12
Lat pull downs 3x12
Barbell bicep curls 3x12
Hammer curls DB 3 sets (mainly for a pump)

Push: Flat Bench press 12 10 8 6 10
Incline Bench press 3x12
Military press 3x12
DB Flies (Chest)
Dips (triceps) 3x10
Cable push down (tricep) 3x12

Legs: Squat 12,10,8,6,10
Lunges (10 per leg per set, 3 sets)
Dead lifts (straight leg) 12,10,8
lying Hamstring Curl 3x12
Standing Calves raises (Both legs or one leg at a time, until it burns)
Leg press (one leg at a time)

Typical Day
Oats 5am
Pre work out (Supp SA Ganic-F)
GYM 06:00-07:30
Protein (Pure Whey) (40g Protein) (straight after gym)
Apple and small Yogurt (low fat) Around 09:00
3 Egg whites and 1 complete egg. Boiled. Around 10:00
2 chicken Breast (100g) and green salad 13:00
Protein shake (whey) (40g Protein) around 15:00
Supper 19:00 2 chicken breats and salad, or two pieces of hak and salad or tuna salad.
Sometimes a protein shake before bed at 21:00

I definitely need and appreciate any help. I really want to put some muscle on, and reduce bodyfat to 15%. Any advice on anabolics also appreciated, as long as it wont impact me having children in the future.

Just my advice, but have a read. My comments in red

For most of your compounds I would recommend doing 5 sets in the 5-7 rep range. I don't even understand a different approach unless you have separate strength and hypertrophy days.

GrootD wrote: Pull: Bent Over rows Barbell 3x12 More sets, less reps, heavier weight
Upward rows BB 3x12
Lat pull downs 3x12 More sets, less reps, heavier weight
Barbell bicep curls 3x12
Hammer curls DB 3 sets (mainly for a pump) Hammer curls are kind of superfluous if you do enough back and bicep work, you'll reap more benefits from reverse curls or even another dedicated bicep brachii exercise (concentrated curls ect.)
No deadlifts or cable rows? IMO you need some work to strength your spine area and lower back.

Push: Flat Bench press 12 10 8 6 10 What's the stragety here? Is set 5 a drop set? IMO heavuer weights, less reps
Incline Bench press 3x12
Military press 3x12 More sets, less reps, heavier weight
DB Flies (Chest)
Dips (triceps) 3x10
Cable push down (tricep) 3x12

Legs: Squat 12,10,8,6,10 Same as for flat bench?
Lunges (10 per leg per set, 3 sets)
Dead lifts (straight leg) 12,10,8
lying Hamstring Curl 3x12
Standing Calves raises (Both legs or one leg at a time, until it burns)
Leg press (one leg at a time)

Thanks Furk

I had a look at your comments, and will definitely give it a try. I always thought that reps should be kept between the 8-12 range. More sets with less reps sounds interesting.

With regards to your notes next to squats and Bench, Yes similar to Drop set. 6 reps (max weight) and then 10 with lighter weight.

To be honest, I think most of my problem is with my diet. I am working on a better Diet, and will definitely post it for comments when done. I have not enough healthy fats, and I think that is what is hindering my testo levels.

Because all of the testosterone indicators are low, I think your HPTA is struggling at the moment. Very important for you to stay far away from anabolic steroids as a weakened HPTA is 100x more prone to permanent shutdown. You need to awaken your HPTA with a strong post cycle therapy protocol that is specifically designed to do this. This is what I want you to do:

Week 1-2: Clomid @50mg ED
Week 3-6: Nolvadex @20mg ED
Week 3-6: HCG @250iu twice a week. You will use an insulin needle to inject this into fat. See the articles section for subcatanous injection protocols as opposed to intramuscular.

Four weeks after PCT I want you to use a high quality ZMA supplement as well as a vitamin D supplement. A deficiency of any of those vitamins/minerals will kill testosterone production.

You are right about your diet you are not getting in enough good fats which is another testosterone killer. Be sure to revise your diet and be sure your calories are in a deficit. Do plenty of research on dieting as this is where the magic happens! Exercise hard and intense and do not do too much cardio.

8 weeks after your PCT you will do a full panel of bloods to see if this protocol was successful.

GrootD wrote: ...I always thought that reps should be kept between the 8-12 range. More sets with less reps sounds interesting...

For hypertrophy in isolation exercises yes.

In terms of Pyro's "PCT" suggestion.
1) I would increase hCG slighlty and keep aromasin on hand. Thoughts Pyro?
2) When you do your bloods, check Iron and Vitamin-D levels as well.

Hey GrootD, just reread that you've never done gear. How's your sex drive, libido, skin colour and testicle size at the moment? Rather ask your GP to refer you to a urologist. Remember we aren't doctors. It could be an underlying issue with your endocrine system ect.

You need to remember that he is not hypogonadal like someone getting off a suppressive steroid cycle. He simply needs to give his HPTA a boost to produce a better amount of test this means the chance of estrogen rebound is much lower and he doesn't have to deal with raised prolactin.

1) Not necessary, but he will need it for the future when he does his first proper cycle so he could buy it now. I would rather get Arimidex or Letro for a first cycle.

2) He is going to be supplementing with vitamin D so the test will not tell us anything. No need to check iron as he gets plenty of protein from good sources.

Pyroclasm wrote: You need to remember that he is not hypogonadal...

We don't know that yet.

Pyroclasm wrote: ...He simply needs to give his HPTA a boost to produce a better amount of test this means the chance of estrogen rebound is muc lower...

Are you referring to aromatization? How can he aromatize test to estro if he's test is already so low?

1) No hypogonadal man will produce that amount of test naturally.

2) He is going on PCT drugs which will shoot up his test production to that of a 21 year old with great genes. But I don't understand why you then suggest he should have Aromasin on hand and then make a statement like that.

FYI, I ALWAYS use Lancet, their service is excellent and amazingly fast. I suggest you take your results to an endocrinologist and do a comprehensive blood assessment - thyroid, cholesterol etc etc as low test could be caused by any number of issues. Do you smoke? Drink? Too many factors for us here to take into account and advise you. Rather see a professional and get an informed decision in this case.

Never smoked. Do have 2/3 beers over a weekend (not always)

No problem with Cholesterol.

Pyro, Once I finished this "pct" cycle, will my natural Test levels drop again to when I started? (to the low level I am currently at)

Now to find hCG, The few Guys I have asked looked at me funny. :huh:

Thanks

Ask for Pregnyl or Ovidrel he the dude should know what that is. Your test levels should be much higher than before.

Ok I found some Ovigil 5000iu hCG. Made in India

I have a few questions, thing that I read on the Infolet you get inside the packaging.

1. It came with 1ml Sodium Chloride. That means 5000iu in 1ml. That equites to 0.05ml to get 250iu. Is that going to be possible to do with an insulin syringe? Or could I get an ampule of something from Dischem, that I can mix the hCG with to get more “liquid volume”

2. The infolet says use immediately after reconstitution

3. Infolet says intramuscular?


One more thing, and please Pyro, I’m not questioning you or your info, I would like to learn the reasoning behind what you recommended. Stuff like, why the Clomid first, why the cycle length? Why the dosages, etc. Just for me to learn from this so I know in the future. I have already decided that I am going to follow your advice, so, it really is more for my learning

Please refer me to any post or articles that could help. I have read the steroid cycle basics, and that was very interesting. I am going to read the pct article now.

Please any one feel free to comment and post.

Thanks all

Anybody? :whistle:

The answers to all your questions can be found in the threads in the PCT section of the site - concentrate on the senior's posts. If you need to dig deeper, the NCBI site will usually have studies which are at least partly relevant

Lancet does the test for you no problems. It's just that medical aid won't pay if you go in without a doctor referral. Only Ampath is sticky about this - which is pretty dumb imho, its your blood and your results and why not give these to you if you are prepared to pay,