Also New

Pyroclasm wrote: Lol Dude kudoes for doing your own research that´s really great!! But USN? Really?

Rhodiola is excellent at suppressing cortisol levels. We mean DMA, not DMAA and definately not DHEA. lol @ Your obsession with Mr Holford. You obviously have cash for days!

Yes, sorry for the USN. I am not a fan of USN, but I wanted to get something quick, from the shop, and I've used USN's 17-Testo before, and it worked for me.

For my next order I will go to the website that you guys supplied me with.

Mr. Holford ..... I saw him on 2 talk shows, and heard his views on healthy eating and supplementing, and it really impressed me. I also have his Vitamin Bible here at home. Very helpful book. If I had the money I would have all his books

He is expensive, so I do not buy all my supplements from him. And also, he does not have as wide a range as Solgar and Solal for example.

What is DMA ? At Dis-chem I asked at the bodybuilding section, I asked at the vitamin section, and I asked at the medicine section, and no one there knows what DMA is. I asked at the health shop, and they also do not know what DMA is. Strange.

RonTheSaveg wrote: Could have got those sups from BSSA for half the price and probably even more.
Colt, didn't see that you got the B12 and B12 Complex? You should get yourself some bud. It's really cheap and I think it could help you on your road to recovery. Check out the BSSA website bud. www.bssa.biz/ . Service is great and best value for money i.m.o.
Good luck with your recovery bud.

I still have to go get the vit B injections. My weekend was just a little too full for that At least I got the supplements (all except for the DMA).

I also wasn't sure where to go for the injections. I know the pharmacies have nurses, but they are not there fulltime, so I could not find a nurse when I was there this weekend.

And if I want to go to my doctor, I have to make an appointment - they do not do the "walk in and get an injection quickly" thing anymore, like they used to do in the old days.

DAA = D-Aspartic Acid. Excuse the typo.

Pyroclasm wrote: DAA = D-Aspartic Acid. Excuse the typo.

No problem ... thanks !

You should get blood tests before you take any of this crap. None of these supplements are a long term solution and it's just a gamble that they will help you.

He's probably done bloods with his doc that put him on a test course. Which hormones did you test?

Muscleaddict wrote: You should get blood tests before you take any of this crap. None of these supplements are a long term solution and it's just a gamble that they will help you.

The list that I bought ?

Yes

I also wasn't sure where to go for the injections. I know the pharmacies have nurses, but they are not there fulltime, so I could not find a nurse when I was there this weekend.

And if I want to go to my doctor, I have to make an appointment - they do not do the "walk in and get an injection quickly" thing anymore, like they used to do in the old days.[/quote]


Bud, if you are okay to inject it yourself you could. You can buy just buy a10ml vile of each. The one is like R13.00 and the other R16.00. You just ask for it at any Dischem or pharmacy, over the counter.. No script needed. You gonna pay a lot if you go have it done buy the nurse. And you can't OD on the stuff. It's just a Vit. I personally take it (1ml of each, mixed in one Injection) once a week. But I also use it for a different purpose > bodybuilding. It just boosts my energy and it's good for general sense of well being. I don't use it for stress management really, cause I don't suffer from that. But I think it could aid in helping you hey!

But yea, sounds like there are so many other eliments to this whole road to recovery for you. I.e: good diet, getting back to some kinda gym programme, managing your high stress levels, working out a proper balance between work and rest.. etc , etc.. Just like all the dudes have mentioned. You got some good sound advice from the experts on here bud. All the best man!

Muscleaddict wrote: Yes

I am confused now, because this is the list I got from you guys. To boost my natural testosterone and to fight the cortisol - naturally.

So if this is not going to help me, then I am totally screwed.

RonTheSaveg wrote: Bud, if you are okay to inject it yourself you could. You can buy just buy a10ml vile of each. The one is like R13.00 and the other R16.00. You just ask for it at any Dischem or pharmacy, over the counter.. No script needed. You gonna pay a lot if you go have it done buy the nurse. And you can't OD on the stuff. It's just a Vit. I personally take it (1ml of each, mixed in one Injection) once a week. But I also use it for a different purpose > bodybuilding. It just boosts my energy and it's good for general sense of well being. I don't use it for stress management really, cause I don't suffer from that. But I think it could aid in helping you hey!

But yea, sounds like there are so many other eliments to this whole road to recovery for you. I.e: good diet, getting back to some kinda gym programme, managing your high stress levels, working out a proper balance between work and rest.. etc , etc.. Just like all the dudes have mentioned. You got some good sound advice from the experts on here bud. All the best man!

Thank you, I appreciate the advice and motivation.

I am not fond of needles, but I can try and inject myself with the B. Now I must just find out how to inject properly without hurting myself. And where to inject in the body.

Colt wrote:

Muscleaddict wrote: Yes

I am confused now, because this is the list I got from you guys. To boost my natural testosterone and to fight the cortisol - naturally.

So if this is not going to help me, then I am totally screwed.

Dude the list will help boost but if I could put it like this.....if a normal guy had 80 to 120 mg test and u are sitting at around 60 mg the sups might bring u up to 65 to 75 mg so u will feel better till your system gets used to the sups ....now if u go on TRT u will be injected with 100mg of test for life making u normal at 100mg....if u cycle for body building u boost it to 500mg for 10 weeks .
There is a injection how to in the articles sect above...

What about doing PCT no 2 to "wake up" his Hpta MA ?

Good idea running a PCT - Clomid/Nolva/HCG

Yes that's the best option if your plan is to recover your HPTA. After doing a 10 week course of testosterone no matter what supplements you use it will take a guy in perfect health a few months to go back to normal. In this case who knows? We don't have enough info to go on, hence recommending a specialist.

Ok was thinking from the point of view that he went to the doc for low test and she then gave him the cycle ....PCT no 2 but then it might work for a while only then back to sq 1.....so yep a specialist is his answer.

It has been a while, and I think time to give you guys an update.

Some of you suggested I go see a specialist. I first saw and Endocrinologist, and she started running some test, with the help also of a Urologist. The Endo's tests showed that my Testosterone was very low. She and the Uro says that they would like it to be above 12 (basically between 12 and 27).

Mine was 6.3 - and that really concerned them.

I have been for lots of tests since, and even spent 4 days in hospital where they ran a lot of tests on me. The result: My pituary gland is not working .... it is not sending the signals it needs to to my body to produce the correct hormones.

So they have started me on treatment. I now have to get Nebido injections for the rest of my life. At first it was supposed to be every 12 weeks, but after my 4 days in hospital they realised that my body burns up testosterone very quickly. Too quick. So now I will receive them every 8 weeks.

But I am still concerned. The Nebido (testo) builds up in the first 4 weeks, and then I start to crash again. When the testo builds up, everything improves - my mood improves a lot, I get my sense of humour back, I get up easily in the mornings, and stop shaking, and I can climb stairs again. Oh, and somehow I also stress less - I get the strength to handle stress.

The downside is bad, when I start to crash. The opposite of all of the above happens - extremely tired, nightmares at night, muscle pain, wake up tired, lose my sense of humour .....

So I also have a question:

Is there anything I can take to boost myself in those last 4 weeks a bit ? Preferably also a slow release product, or at least something that won't spike and then fall again after every intake.

My goal is just to get myself through the first couple of months for now, to avoid those last 4 weeks of crashing. Hopefully the Nebido will build up in my system, and as that happens I won't need the boost any longer.

Ok, seeing that this is a lifetime thing for me, maybe I can get back into training again sometime, and up the dose a little. I miss my training days .... and .... the Endo also told me to get back into exercise, to help me cope with my stress, which we think breaks me down a lot.

Ok, I've said a lot - given you some feedback, and wondering what you guys think .... ?

Welcome back and sorry to hear how things turned out. Did you ever look at that forum I recommended to you last time you were here? Every question you have is answered there and there are hundreds of men there in your situation. I could answer your questions but at the end of the day I'm not a medical doctor and what I'd suggest probably won't be what your doctor wants to hear.

Nebido does cause a build up of testosterone over time and initially should be injected every 6 weeks for the first 2 shots, so that you can build up a steady state of testosterone in your bloodstream. Your doc got it wrong here. But it also does not work well for everyone because of the peaks and troughs in your testosterone level that comes with injecting such a long ester.

Have you had your E2 levels tested at around 8 weeks after the shot when you start to feel down? That is often the culprit because when your T to estrogen ration starts dropping too much you start to feel crap, even with a decent total testosterone level. Estradiol levels generally stay elevated for a while longer when your test levels drop.

How long have you been on the nebido and how many injections have you had already?

When it comes to this kind of problems, i would rather take your advice over the docs. +1 MA - you know your stuff!!!

FIllet wrote: When it comes to this kind of problems, i would rather take your advice over the docs. +1 MA - you know your stuff!!!

Also my reason for asking questions here .... this is the world you guys play in, so you know so much about the good AND the bad. Like you guys mentioned in a previous reply my - HTPA axis ? So you guys know your stuff.

To answer MA's question:

I've had 3 injections so far. The first 2 were boosters.

1 Injection, and then 6 weeks later a booster (2nd injection), because my level was so low. The Urologist says that a level of 8 to him is redline, and mine was 6.3

Then I was supposed to have a 12 week shot (3rd injection). But I started crashing again after 4 weeks, and also the reason I ended up in hospital - the Endo wanted to run more tests on me. The hospital was 8 weeks into the 12 week cycle I was supposed to be on.

They then realised my body needs more Nebido (testo), and I was injected in the hosital after 8 weeks, instead of the orginally decided 12 weeks period. My levels were very low at the time, and it took 2 weeks for that 3rd injection to take effect.

I am now waiting for my 4th injection (now that I am on an 8 week cycle), but after 4 weeks I started crashing again.

I am not an expert, but wonder, did you try a PCT2 as was suggested? I would certainly have done so. Even PCT3. It seems you had nothing to lose by trying to rehab your own HPTA, if the only other option given you was the worst case ie TRT for ever?

Hey Colt,

Lots of good posts on the HPTA axis on this forum. Have a read through when you get a gap.
It will answer all your questions.

And good luck mate. And keep us updated.

Nate

Colt wrote: To answer MA's question:

I've had 3 injections so far. The first 2 were boosters.

1 Injection, and then 6 weeks later a booster (2nd injection), because my level was so low. The Urologist says that a level of 8 to him is redline, and mine was 6.3

Then I was supposed to have a 12 week shot (3rd injection). But I started crashing again after 4 weeks, and also the reason I ended up in hospital - the Endo wanted to run more tests on me. The hospital was 8 weeks into the 12 week cycle I was supposed to be on.

They then realised my body needs more Nebido (testo), and I was injected in the hosital after 8 weeks, instead of the orginally decided 12 weeks period. My levels were very low at the time, and it took 2 weeks for that 3rd injection to take effect.

I am now waiting for my 4th injection (now that I am on an 8 week cycle), but after 4 weeks I started crashing again.

You might just have to give this some time and see how things go with the next Nebido shot. What you're going through is very frustating but the alternatives to nebido are nowhere near as convenient and your next option is a different test ester with injections at least every 10-14 days, or transdermal gel or the patch which come with their own teething problems.

Your doctors seem to be pretty clued up with this, judging from what they've already said. One must just always be a bit sceptical because it's your health and doctors can make mistakes. I'm confused - you first said your T level was 6.3 before you started nebido, then you said it was 6.3 6 weeks after the injection? It's extremely unlikely to be 6.3 after 6 weeks -that would be insanelt rare. In that case I'd nebido is not an option for you. This graph below shows the normal response to nebido injections every 8 weeks. As you can see there is a noticeable build up and huge drop in T after the initial peak. This is normal and is when T:E ratio commonly drops out of the ideal parameters so get it checked, although in most cases on nebido it should not be a problem. If you are very overweight you are much more prone to physical and the emotional side effects as well.



Without any more numbers from blood work I can't really say anything else but get those estradiol numbers because it's important.

MA you a science god bru. Wow.
+1 to you.

Haha thanks but hardly Nate. I just have an interest in this stuff so I try to keep up to date.