June '12 Cycle & Gyno

MCJ
Topic Author
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 15:56 #97052 by MCJ

June '12 Cycle & Gyno was created by MCJ

Hey guys

If all goes well and according to plan then hopefully June will be time to hit the gear. My previous cycle ended in Sept '11 and was quite basic. Test & Superdrol. Did the test 15 weeks.

I was (and still am) quite keen on a simple NPP, Supertest and Anaps cycle bridged with winstrol. My main concern however is gyno. I wouldn't say I'm extremely prone to gyno but it usually pops up late in my cycles. Haven't had any major problems that letro couldn't sort out.

Now obviously the NPP, test and anaps will lead to some serious estrogen. Would adex be sufficient for this? (Never used adex before only letro)? If not what else would you suggest for a decent kicker as dbol would pretty much have the same result just not as drastic.

Planning 300mg NPP week 1-6 & 450mg week 7-12
Supertest 650mg week 1-6 & 975mg week 7-14
And ideally 50mg/day Anaps week 1-3

Bridge with 40mg/day winny

Thanx

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gorilla
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 16:14 #97058 by gorilla

Replied by gorilla on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

If you get gyno from the deca letro or adex or asin or nolva just wont cut it, youll need some parlodel or dostinex. start the letro 2 weeks prior to your cycle as it only reaches full supression after 2 weeks. Then start your cycle when estrogen is already low.

Lets go!

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00pump
Moderator

14 Mar 2012 16:16 #97060 by 00pump

Replied by 00pump on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

Progesterone levels rise with the increase of estrogen, control estrogen and you shouldn't have an issue with progesterone sides. Have a prolactin lowering drug incase...

"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford

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MCJ
Topic Author
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 16:24 #97062 by MCJ

Replied by MCJ on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

Thanx Pump

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Juice
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 16:30 #97064 by Juice

Replied by Juice on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

I hear letro is best for progesterone sides and adex for estrogen sides

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Empire
Expert

14 Mar 2012 18:08 #97079 by Empire

Replied by Empire on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

Letro doesn't really help with progesterone sides in my experience, bromocriptine and cabaser do.letro is only an aromatase inhibitor,a strong one at that.

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gorilla
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 18:11 #97080 by gorilla

Replied by gorilla on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

00pump wrote: Progesterone levels rise with the increase of estrogen, control estrogen and you shouldn't have an issue with progesterone sides. Have a prolactin lowering drug incase...

So the 2 week pre-cycle letro approach should in a way be effective for prolactin sides? If you dont have estrogen you cant really have prolactin, correct?

Lets go!

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Eidolon
Expert

14 Mar 2012 18:33 - 14 Mar 2012 18:34 #97083 by Eidolon

Replied by Eidolon on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

gorilla wrote: So the 2 week pre-cycle letro approach should in a way be effective for prolactin sides? If you dont have estrogen you cant really have prolactin, correct?

You need estrogen to grow. The aim of using AIs are to keep your estrogen levels in check. Not to suppress it completely.

While letro is cheap, it's got harsh sides. Rather keep adex on hand. I think I mentioned in the past that I don't agree with your frequent suggestionx to use anti-prolactin meds and AIs simply as a precaution - it's like taking antibiotics in case you get flu.

Last edit: 14 Mar 2012 18:34 by Eidolon.

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00pump
Moderator

14 Mar 2012 19:16 #97089 by 00pump

Replied by 00pump on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

Don't confuse prolactin and progesterone. If you want to keep prolactin levels low you will need to use what gorilla suggested in post 2.

"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford

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00pump
Moderator

14 Mar 2012 19:34 #97098 by 00pump

Replied by 00pump on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

There is allot of mixed tests carried out prolactin lowering drugs and progesterone, some studies it increased progesterone while others it lowered it by 1/5th. So don't rely on prolactin lowering drugs to combat high progesterone levels, most cases, high prolactin levels will result in lower progesterone levels.

"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford

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gorilla
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 20:21 #97109 by gorilla

Replied by gorilla on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

So what do you suggest pump? Starting low dose letro say .3mg ED or EOD prior to your 19-nor cycle or just do dostinex/bromo from the start?

Also, is lactating gyno easily reversed?

Lets go!

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00pump
Moderator

14 Mar 2012 20:37 #97115 by 00pump

Replied by 00pump on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

The gynecomastia found from increased prolactin I find not to be that hard nodular type of high estrogenic cycles, however that "breast" tissue is stubborn to reverse, and it seems to cause tissue right to the end of the pec nearly to where your lat starts. It isn't isn't "fat" tissue its "breast" tissue so when you have it you feel you can cut down, but that doesn't help, also don't fiddle with your nipples as it may cause the nipple to secrete a white liquid.

"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford

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MCJ
Topic Author
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 20:51 #97116 by MCJ

Replied by MCJ on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

So pump mind spoon feeding quick? Lol. I already have the letro and Supertest. Still plenty of time til june to get the rest sorted. What would YOU suggest I get in terms of the cycle I mentioned and how would u structure the use there of? Would appreciate it bud.

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gorilla
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 20:56 #97119 by gorilla

Replied by gorilla on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

In no you hate my advice but how about you start with letro at a low dos of .3mg ED 2weeks prior to cycle till it "kicks in"- so to speak. Then if you notice gyno on cycle increase the letro dose and if that doesnt help you will know its prolactin related. Then start with dostinex 1mg per week. However have your doctor check it out as i read on this site that you shouldnt self-administer these drugs.

Lets go!

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00pump
Moderator

14 Mar 2012 21:21 #97125 by 00pump

Replied by 00pump on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

Gorilla is actually correct... You could how ever get away with EoD on the Letro. Have dostinex on hand incase of prolactin induced gynecomastia. 1 Dostinex split 1mg into 2 half pills per weak. You will not experience the nasty side effects like the of the Bromo..

"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford

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gorilla
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 21:24 #97126 by gorilla

Replied by gorilla on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

[quote="00pump" post=97125]Gorilla is actually correct... You could how ever get away with EoD on the Letro. Have dostinex on hand incase of prolactin induced gynecomastia. 1 Dostinex split 1mg into 2 half pills per weak. You will not experience the nasty side effects like the of the Bromo..[/quote]

So i can safely say that progesterone and estrogen sides are similar, but prolactin sides are a whole other thing?

Lets go!

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00pump
Moderator

14 Mar 2012 21:30 - 14 Mar 2012 21:34 #97127 by 00pump

Replied by 00pump on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

I wrote this in a mail the other day...

Estrogen (ER) -> Growth Hormone ((Circulating IGF-1) In Stroma)) <- Progesterone (Progesterone Receptor), Prolactin (Prolactin Receptor)

Below this level is the breast so each one of those has arrows to the break.

"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford

Last edit: 14 Mar 2012 21:34 by 00pump.

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gorilla
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 21:35 #97128 by gorilla

Replied by gorilla on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

So theoretically you "should" be able to avoid lactating gyno with just letro or adex, if you start it pre-cycle, then there is less estrogen and less estrogen = less IGF-1 in stroma = less progesterone, prolactin and sadly = less gains?

Sorry for all the questions but the internet is really vague and this is really confusing but I think I got it.lol

Lets go!

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MCJ
Topic Author
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 21:44 #97131 by MCJ

Replied by MCJ on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

+1 Gorilla

I'm not a total asshole and give credit where its due.

Don't agree with the total moderator karma bump but hey just my opinion.

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MCJ
Topic Author
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 21:46 #97132 by MCJ

Replied by MCJ on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

+1 Gorilla

I'm not a total asshole and give credit where its due.

Don't agree with the total moderator karma bump but hey just my opinion.

Size Matters

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gorilla
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 21:48 #97134 by gorilla

Replied by gorilla on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

MCJ wrote: +1 Gorilla

I'm not a total asshole and give credit where its due.

Don't agree with the total moderator karma bump but hey just my opinion.

Thanks bro i wish i could say sorry for opening all those threads and I realise I was trying too much and being ignorant as I was asking for the same advice over and over! White flag?

Lets go!

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CHAPEL
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 21:49 #97135 by CHAPEL

Replied by CHAPEL on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

letro is the devils juice.. But looks like i am gonna be needing it like right now..

To you it may look like I just did a push-up... But in fact, I just bench-pressed the world.

"You put the devil on the other side and I will come to fight." -Royce Gracie

Its legs day, legs day, gotta get down on legs day.

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Eidolon
Expert

14 Mar 2012 21:49 - 14 Mar 2012 21:50 #97136 by Eidolon

Replied by Eidolon on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

Yeah. Gorilla talks a lot of shit. One lucky hit and all his karma is restored. So be it, I guess

Last edit: 14 Mar 2012 21:50 by Eidolon.

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gorilla
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 21:54 #97137 by gorilla

Replied by gorilla on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

Eidolon wrote: Yeah. Gorilla talks a lot of shit. One lucky hit and all his karma is restored. So be it, I guess

Well bro 2 karma points is still fairly low and I wont be giving any uninformed advice no more so dont stress...White flag?

@Chapel: Why you going to need letro? Got some gyno flare up?

Lets go!

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CHAPEL
Platinum Member

14 Mar 2012 21:58 #97138 by CHAPEL

Replied by CHAPEL on topic June '12 Cycle & Gyno

ya I think so.. nipples pointing down and feeling softish stuff.. Frustrating..

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