first cycle: SUS 250

DIESEL
Topic Author
Elite Member

15 Jan 2010 00:14 #33652 by DIESEL

first cycle: SUS 250 was created by DIESEL

hi people

ok have been preparing from last yr and have decided to keep first cycle simple. i am looking for lean gains and size 2nd. rather put on 3-5 kg muscle and lose 1 kg then put on 10 and lose 4 .

sticking to a sus 250 cycle only. thing is shud it be ok to do 250/week or shud i do 500/week (MT). gonna run it for 8 weeks.wanna do 8 weeks cos of age and dont want too much shut down for 2 long, hence no deca.
31 yrs
85 kg
bf around 14 % now.

PCT: clomid and kessar. no need for hcg as yet i think. dont want any complication with hcg.
also think i may be prone to gyno so wanna keep things simple and clean.

any thoughts. 250 or 500/week.

thank you.

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BB_guy
Platinum Member

15 Jan 2010 06:53 #33653 by BB_guy

Replied by BB_guy on topic first cycle: SUS 250

You wont be happy with 250mg sust a week. Will be a total waste. 500mg would be much better.

You might be better off pinning the sus Mon, Wed, Fri to make use of the short esters if you wanna run it for 8 weeks.
Im the same age as you and personally wouldnt run a low dose cycle for 8 weeks though.

You could probably get away without the HCG like you say.
You say you might be prone to gyno. I would run a low dose A.I. from day 1 of the cycle.

ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ

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Empire
Expert

15 Jan 2010 07:56 #33655 by Empire

Replied by Empire on topic first cycle: SUS 250

bb_guy is right about the 500mg a week,and also very right about pinning monday wednesday and friday,that will push your test up to 750mg which might be a bit much for your first cycle... i think u need to run it for longer,you are gonna shut down any way, when ur natural test hits 0 its there cant get less than zero so u might shut down from week 3 so run the cycle for 10-12weeks.use winstrol orals for 2 weeks and then proceed with pct... i hope ur diet is in check for your cycle..

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BB_guy
Platinum Member

15 Jan 2010 08:18 #33657 by BB_guy

Replied by BB_guy on topic first cycle: SUS 250

Just to clarify I meant divide the 500mg into Mon, Wed and Fri. My bad.

ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ

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DIESEL
Topic Author
Elite Member

16 Jan 2010 01:28 #33759 by DIESEL

Replied by DIESEL on topic first cycle: SUS 250

shot guys. gonna do the 250 M 250 T (1-10). winny (8-10).

wats a good winny dose? and take a tab every other day right? is the inject not better than oral?

looking forward to a clean test cycle. lets see how it plays out.

diet is in check

got some help on that.

thanks guys.

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vega5
Expert

16 Jan 2010 07:12 #33760 by vega5

Replied by vega5 on topic first cycle: SUS 250

Anything in the range of 30-50mg a day, with winny I thing tabs and injectable is pretty much the same and it needs to be taken everyday.

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BB_guy
Platinum Member

16 Jan 2010 09:50 #33763 by BB_guy

Replied by BB_guy on topic first cycle: SUS 250

@ Diesel
I think what DJ meant by taking Winny for 2 weeks was, after the last injection take the winny while you wait for the test to clear the system as you approach PCT.

Vega is right by saying take the Winny everyday.
I think you would need to take more of the oral Winny than the injectable to get the same effect.

ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ

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Inja
Platinum Member

17 Jan 2010 23:36 #33812 by Inja

Replied by Inja on topic first cycle: SUS 250

BB_guy wrote:

You might be better off pinning the sus Mon, Wed, Fri to make use of the short esters if you wanna run it for 8 weeks.

DJ Squirrel Man said:

BB_Guy is also very right about pinning monday wednesday and friday

I disagree with you both. Sustanon was designed to get a more sustained release of testosterone, and if you do the calculations you will see that blood levels of test don't radically change between using Testen once a week or sustanon once a week... Twice a week is still better but there is no need to go with an EOD schedule with sustanon...

Sorry if I offend you
Its just my point of view

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Empire
Expert

18 Jan 2010 06:17 #33819 by Empire

Replied by Empire on topic first cycle: SUS 250

I honestly believe to utalise the short esters in the sust u should follow the test prop protocol,why is it u will pin test prop eod but won't do the same with sust that contains prop?i like what william llwelyn says,he thinks that your injection protocol should be at 1/2 the half life of the shortest ester,so essentially u should be pinning sust everyday,but thats slightly stupid so eod is fine,each to their own i guess inja

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DIESEL
Topic Author
Elite Member

18 Jan 2010 06:37 #33820 by DIESEL

Replied by DIESEL on topic first cycle: SUS 250

thanks for the advise guys. gonna stick to MT. will do winny week 9-11.
took first shot last night...cos trained this morning cos of my work shift...was perfectly fine last night..this morning i cant even sit in my car....this thing pains!!!! worse than a vit B complex shot. anyway will keep everyone posted.

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Mr Moose
Platinum Member

18 Jan 2010 15:16 #33894 by Mr Moose

Replied by Mr Moose on topic first cycle: SUS 250

Thats why you should never pin at night...
You are asking for trouble especially with the know harsh injectables, guaranteed if you stick to that protocol you will wake up with a lammie everytime. And a sust lammie can be a 2 day or more issue.
You have got to some how manage to pin before you hit the gym to work the oil. I go as far as making sure my pin site matches the muscle i am training on the given day, has worked for me and others i hav helped with similar issues. Where were u injecting by the way? Good luck.
Peace

Training: MMA, Boxing, Rugby, Powerlifting.
Weight: 122kg (current)
BF%: 9-11%
Height: 188cm
Occupation: Personal Trainer, Master Trainer, NFPT.

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DIESEL
Topic Author
Elite Member

18 Jan 2010 16:47 #33904 by DIESEL

Replied by DIESEL on topic first cycle: SUS 250

thanks moose. injecting in glute...out quadrant. having given injection..jus never to myself. will tk injection just b4 training from now.

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jackrabbit1
Expert

19 Jan 2010 10:45 #33982 by jackrabbit1

Replied by jackrabbit1 on topic first cycle: SUS 250

DIESEL wrote:

thanks moose. injecting in glute...out quadrant. having given injection..jus never to myself. will tk injection just b4 training from now.

The bottom, inner corner of the outer quadrant. Best to devide the outer quadrant into another quad. No blood, no pain and no swelling.

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lushen999
New Member

19 Jan 2010 14:52 #34020 by lushen999

Replied by lushen999 on topic first cycle: SUS 250

yo Diesl, keen to know your progress? keep us posted

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Novice!
Platinum Member

19 Jan 2010 18:45 #34041 by Novice!

Replied by Novice! on topic first cycle: SUS 250

I prefer injecting at night, well more late afternoon. then you sleep through the pain and wake up nice and fresh in the morning

I would also never inject just before training, the muscle would contract onto the ball of oil and cause who knows wat problems... heard of stories where guys did this and it didnt sound that cool..
just my preference tho-especially if u new to this..

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Inja
Platinum Member

19 Jan 2010 22:23 #34071 by Inja

Replied by Inja on topic first cycle: SUS 250

djeasye wrote:

Iwhy is it u will pin test prop eod but won't do the same with sust that contains prop?

Because the sust has other esters in it that will carry through till the next injection. Test prop levels drop off to quickly when injected alone.

DIESEL: Just massage the site after pinnin. Give it a deep steady massage for a few minutes. Really helps reduce the pain. Also make sure you are keeping your hand steady. A wild pin can damage muscle tissue and cause a really painful site.

Sorry if I offend you
Its just my point of view

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DIESEL
Topic Author
Elite Member

20 Jan 2010 06:40 #34083 by DIESEL

Replied by DIESEL on topic first cycle: SUS 250

thanks alot people. going well. pain is gone within a day. only thing at site of injection is now gone hard- is that normal?

also with training. shud i stick to 1 muscle group a week or train 1 muscle group twice now that recovering is good.

was thinking of DAY1 chest n tri
DAY2 back n bi
DAY3 legs n shoulders
then repeat . sunday rest.

i have been doing day1 chest n bi
day2 shoulders
day3 rest
day4 back n tri's
day5 legs
day6 only cardio
day7 rest

actually been giving it some thought and gonna stick to wat i have been doing to gain some size.

last 2 weeks i will switch to twice a week to cut a bit.

i have added GH to the cycle. using the NOVO penset. 1 iu twice/day. gonna pin SUS M n T.
also have 1 bottle LP VAR. shud i run that now for 4 weeks.

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BB_guy
Platinum Member

20 Jan 2010 07:05 #34085 by BB_guy

Replied by BB_guy on topic first cycle: SUS 250

Just a thought on the area going hard after the injection: Could it be that you never injected deep enough into the muscle and oil is "sitting in the fat"

If you are gonna do each body part twice a week, I would add a rest day after the 3 workout days and then repeat. (eg) workout 1, workout 2, workout 3, rest, workout 1 etc

If you stick with :

day1 chest n bi
day2 shoulders
day3 rest
day4 back n tri's
day5 legs
day6 only cardio
day7 rest

might be a good idea to move shoulders further away from chest and do triceps with either chest or shoulders, else your basically working them 3x a week

ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ

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DIESEL
Topic Author
Elite Member

20 Jan 2010 08:01 #34088 by DIESEL

Replied by DIESEL on topic first cycle: SUS 250

you right there bb.

day1 chest
day2 back
day3 legs
day4 shoulders
day5 arms

how is this split. wanna try the max ot rountine.

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SNOK1986
Platinum Member

20 Jan 2010 08:18 #34090 by SNOK1986

Replied by SNOK1986 on topic first cycle: SUS 250

Diesel i do the same routine except on day 4 i do shoulders and tris and friday just bies but with extreme abdominal work.

No lets not deadlift as I need a double hip replacement haha

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DIESEL
Topic Author
Elite Member

20 Jan 2010 08:29 #34093 by DIESEL

Replied by DIESEL on topic first cycle: SUS 250

cool snok. been thinking about that. thats the same rountine i got from trulyhuge.com will def consider it.

thank guys. will jus do legs today and shoulders tom.

shud i start the VAR now as well. will def end the cycle with winny.

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SNOK1986
Platinum Member

20 Jan 2010 08:38 #34094 by SNOK1986

Replied by SNOK1986 on topic first cycle: SUS 250

Well make sure u do the VAR for 5 weeks and have a 5 week break before starting the winny.

But for me i wud do just the VAR for the last 5/6 weeks of ur cycle.

I personally dont like the whole idea of 2 orals in one cycle.

No lets not deadlift as I need a double hip replacement haha

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DIESEL
Topic Author
Elite Member

22 Jan 2010 07:09 #34198 by DIESEL

Replied by DIESEL on topic first cycle: SUS 250

BB_guy. thank for the advise. normally go in about 1cm with the needle. went in about 2 cm yesterday and about 4 hrs b4 training. no pain sweeling hardness wats so ever. like i didnt even have an injection. awesome.
traning going well. up to 90kg. appeptite is insane. body starting to harding up.

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BB_guy
Platinum Member

22 Jan 2010 07:36 #34200 by BB_guy

Replied by BB_guy on topic first cycle: SUS 250

Remember to do deep intramuscular injection.
2cm isnt even an inch bud. Get yourself 1.5 inch needles(39mm or 3.9cm) for pinning glutes.
At 15% bf, 20mm wont be going very deep into the glute muscle.

ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ

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Michael
Platinum Member

22 Jan 2010 08:57 #34203 by Michael

Replied by Michael on topic first cycle: SUS 250

yes as BBguy says.

Don't worry stick that pin in all the way, (you wont hit a bone) :woohoo:

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