Quick-in Quick-out cycle

Ok i know alot of people rave about shorter cycles due to the diminishing effect of estrogen in longer cycles.

Now, i wanna do the following:

Wk1-4: TestE 600mg pw; 30mg db pd;(short bulk phase)
Wk5-8: Pregnyl 500iu 3 x weekly (for 3 weeks); Kessar 20mg pd
(short recovery phase)
Wk5-8: ECA & Clen with dosage on the higher end of the scale, cycled 1wks on 1 wks off.

Then to repeat again @ wk9-16

What do you guys recon?

If you want to run short cycles you have to use short esters, but even 4 weeks is short for short esters. 6 weeks minimum if using a short ester in my opinion.

I would:
Test Prop 150mg M,W,F week1-6
Dbol 30mg/day week 1-3
Winny/Var 30/50mg/day week 4-6.

PCT Nolva week 7-11 40,20,20,20

I agree with the shorter esters for shorter cycles and also the time period, but would add clomid and HCG to the PCT and maybe even consider HCG during the cycle, but that would also depend on compounds used. Nice to hear some other opions as there have been plenty on this subject. I would say it's also based on the sensitivity of the individual, those who are more sensitive would be better suited for the shorter cycles, but again, just an opinion. I read an article on another site around this as well, will see if I can find it and post it as well.

Here is one opinion from another popular site:

Short steroids cycle problems.

Many people seem to think that taking a short steroid cycle will reduce side effects and so on while still giving results.
Typically 4-week cycle of say D-Bol. This is simply not the case. Here’s why;

The problem comes into play when one considers how the body build muscle and the process require. The first thing
is that many steroids require a reasonable amount of time to get into the system and start stimulating the androgen
receptor sites. Fast acting steroids may be felt quite quickly, but that brings in the second issue of stimulation.

One still has to train progressively to get growth. This basically means that you need consecutive sessions of training
a muscle or muscle group, constantly increasing the weight/duration/intensity etc each following workout, to create growth.
This takes time as one can only stimulate a muscle properly once or twice a week with reasonable rest and recover,
and subsequent growth. This means that the growth is still limited to the training you can do without overtraining.

Another fact is metabolism and diet. It also takes some time for the body to adjust to the protein intake and utilisation of
nutrients, an integral part of gaining muscle. Just like you cannot get fat over a period of a week by eating badly,
you cannot build muscle without gett6ing the body to absorb and use the necessary nutrients. I know this a short and
simplified explanation but ultimately one want to know what the bottom line is, how must one proceed?

Basically one need to look at what results you can get over a given period of time and then trade that off against
side effects and so on. The key here is gains for least side effects. The point is that you are going to strain the
system one way or another, but if you are you at least want some returns. I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to
take a dose of say D-bolas an example for 3 weeks, getting very little gains and having strained the liver anyway.
I would rather take an 8 or 10-week cycle of a slightly lower dose and focus on the progression in training and diet,
allowing for the entire system to gain.

While the side effects will still be there, at least you have something to show for it and as the system recovers,
you can naturally train your way back to where you where on the cycle form a strength and size point of view.

Another example; taking 4 weeks of 1000mgs of test a week will likely give less gains in the long run than taking
150mgs a week for 16 weeks with good training progression.

Anyway, that’s just my thought hope it makes sense to somebody out there and helps a bit!

Anything longer than 6 weeks I would use HCG ---

Im jusmping on again in a weeks time -- ive decided to stick to short cycles -- 8 week cycles with test prop as a base. My next cycle will be prop and var. When running these I will be using 2000Iu's of HCG (cause i get 2000IU vials) in the last 4 weeks, therefore 250 IU's Monday and thursday from week 5-8. And then only nolva for PCT 40,20,20,20. Im going to starts experimenting with DHEA and pregnenolone for PCT with the nolva. Will keep you all updated..

Here is another option a friend of mine just tried and got some good gains and nice and lean:

Nomad Aqua test 1.5 ml and Nomad Winny inj 1.5ml and 2 ml B12 EOD, run for 6 weeks with a PCT of clomid and HCG. He had a visible drop in bodyfat and gained 8kgs, just finished his PCT and still running clen and tribulus to keep himself anabolic. His diet was spot on and so was his training. B12 gave him a good appetite and the gains were dry. It's easy and cheap and both compounds are short acting.

Oh yes, the B12 also stops the Aqua test from going into suspension into the syringe and easier to inject. Maybe consider some lignocaine if it is quite eina to inject, but he did no do that and will need some thoughts on that as it has not been tried. He is a big afrikaans guy who doesn't mind a little pain , so when I asked if it hurt he just smiled a little. :blink:

If you are going to run aqua test you need to run it a minimum of ED, preferebly 2 times a day for constant levels of test. EOD will just be a test jo-jo for 6 week in my opinion. Surprised at your friends gains --- my guess would be that he is not a very advanced used, especially seeing that it looks as if he took that cycle straight off SA anabolicreview's site

I agree with Mike - i did the same Test-Aqua/Winny cycle in the early days - (It hurt like hell in the beginning).
EOD is way too long - i would inject 2 hours before workout, have a great time and then have no power for the next day. I was looking forward to injections to get the power back.

Mike - ever considered NPP with that next stack? I'm doing that right now and am impressed.

Thanks guys just wanted to get a feel for these shorter cycles. Considering the fact that estrogen catches up to the elevated test levels in you're system and effectively creates a elevated state of equilibrium after about 4-5 wks. The reason why i opted for the longer acting ester was the notion of a back to back cycle (thereby still having some in my system by the time i hit the second one) but seems like i had the cat by the balls

Unfortunately I can only start playing with nandrolone once ive stopped playing sport. Cant wait to run NPP and test Prop for my short cycles. Detection with nandrolone is my only concern

what if i replace the teste with testoviron depo 250 & run it 4 8 wks, bds 1st 4 weeks then PCT

Mike, you are right, just called him and for the first 2 weeks he ran it EOD and the days he injected it was power at the gym, following day not so hot, so he changed to daily shots and this sorted it out. just the aqua though, the winny was EOD. The B12 was also .5 ml ED with the Aqua. He also got the stack advice from a guy at a supplement shop in Edenvale.

@ Mxt

please give some guidance here as what i am thinking of seems pretty similar to ur lean mass#3 if i go for testiviron depo (mix of testE and prop) also ur cycle goes for round 4.5weeks (if i exclude the last few prop shots). Just want to get an idea of why this cant work?

Firstly on the Winny Test AQ cycle. It goes everything I know but I have 2 guys running it at the moment and they are growing like weeds. As in 4 kgs in 2 weeks lean on the smaller guy havnt weiged the big oke but he was 265pounds to begin with. They inject EOOD. Go figure. Dirk If i had to do a short cycle-Id do the Deca Test one I have on the cycles page. Works like a charm or id do the Test E / EQ one with D bol frontload

MxT,
You have any other "short" cycles you can send my way? There are planty out there, but need some with real world feedback like the winny, test aqua one. Pls bro and thanks.

Starting to think along the same lines as Dirk here and would rather put on 6 kgs in six weeks than 8 in 12 weeks. Can also fit more in a year.

MxT --- i must admit your cycles are not very conventional, if they had to be posted on any international board/forum they will get ripped to shreads.

Also test aqua has a half life of about 8 hours.... how do you get away with EOD injections? Who are these guys getting these results. If they are beginners I could get them those results with training and diet.

@ Netro

Thats my idea too mate, rather go in & out and keep most of what ive gained. There's a saying in afrikaans: "bietjie, bietjie maak baie" i.e. little by little you gain alot. And its safer too IMHO.

MxT wrote:

Dirk If i had to do a short cycle-Id do the Deca Test one I have on the cycles page. Works like a charm or id do the Test E / EQ one with D bol frontload

Mxt is it the bulk#2 & Lean Mass#3 cycles?

Well I have always done the 10 - 12 week cycles and gone for a max of 3 a year, so this year I am thinking of changing it a little to shorter and more frequent cycles and see what the outcome is by 2009. Lets see what responses we get and if I am happy with the opinions I will decide from there.

Hey guys what do you consider a short cycle? From what I understand (and I'm talking about the amount of time 'on' the gear)a short cycle is 3-4 weeks(4 max) and this is followed up with 2-3 week PCT.Like someone said earlier in this post this protocol works best with short esters and orals,the reason behind this is the short esters work quicker and clear quicker allowing for PCT to start earlier and your own HTPAxis recovering faster.I don't believe the longer esters like equi,deca,sust,test cyp + enanthate belong in a short cycle like this,not only are they more effective over a longer timespan(6-8 Wks) but also because of thier long half lives PCT needs to be started later in effect making them long cycles.I think products like test prop,winny,tren-acetate,NNP,anavar,d/bol,turanabol,masteron,oral primobolin,test suspension would be good choices for short cycles.But I suppose it comes down to what one conciders the length of a short cycle to be?!?
There is a lot to be said for these short cycles
1)A solid HTPA recovery meaning you retain more of your gains
2)Sensitivity to drugs better maintained due to short amount of time 'on' and more time spent 'off'
3)Less stress on the body and endocrine system (ie.your health)
4)Short cycle gains are mostly lean gains(with proper diet)less of a problem with estrogen conversion that develop with longer cycles
5)The body deals with the smaller gains made more often more easily than the massive gains from longer cycles (of which we loose a greater percentage)

So Conan, mind giving us a few samples/ideas? Also, please give ur view on Mxt's bulk#2 & Lean Mass#3 cycles? To me they look pretty good and he's cycles have been great in the past, but a fresh viewpoint would be appreciated.

Mike there is nothing unconventional about them. The short ones are based on L Rea's work and the longer ones are so basic its not even funny. And id defend the logic behind them any day of the week with ANYBODY on any site. The okes on the AQ winny cycle have been training for 5 years solid with almost perfect diets. it not Rocket science to get 10kgs out of someone with diet changes when they are a novice. The winny AQ cycle works. Why Well firstly you have an very anabolic invorment for 48 hours. Then you have a period where your body is clean. You will shut down BUT at a slower rate. You will produce Esrogen but at a slower rate and you will control Cortisol to a certain extend. So when your body will take 28-30 days to shut down completly maybe with a cycle like this you get an extra week or 2 out of this. Sure injecting evryday will get better results upto 4 weeks or so. But after that you will be done and I suspect a cycle with a clearance period might get a week or 2's worth of growth extra. Dunno there isnt much data on these kind of approaches. But real world its def working but for under R800 for 6 weeks you are going to struggle to beat this.

Let me first say that I'm not here to critisise MxT's cycles they must work for him(maximum respect to MxT for giving sample cycles)
I would watch out for using nolvadex with Deca(rather stick with the clomid and pregnyl only) and like I said in my post these cycles are short (4 weeks)and long esters like equi and deca are not going to be optimised in such a short time.Also remember PCT starting times for equi and deca are between 21-28 days and longer after the last shot depending on dose and duration.

Let me give you examples of 2 short cycles that I have had great success with.
1)Tren Acetate;Winstrol(oral);Test prop

Week

---

TrenAcetate---Winstrol----TestProp

---

Pregnyl
1

---

38mgED

---

50mgED

---

150mgEOD---300iu(Mon+Thu)
2

---

38mgED

---

50mgED

---

150mgEOD---300iu(Mon+Thu)
3

---

38mgED

---

50mgED

---

150mgEOD---500iu(Mon+Thu)
4

---

38mgED

---

50mgED

---

150mgEOD---500iu(Mon+Thu)
5(P)--Proviron 25mgED--Clomid 50mgED
6(C)--Clomid 50mgED
7(T)--Clomid 50mgED

2)TestProp;Anavar;D/bol

Week----TestProp---Anavar

---

D/bol

---

Pregnyl
1

---

150mgEOD---40mgED

---

50mgED---300iu(Mon+Thu)
2

---

150mgEOD---40mgED

---

50mgED---300iu(Mon+Thu)
3

---

150mgEOD---40mgED

---

50mgED---500iu(Mon+Thu)
4

---

150mgEOD---40mgED

---

50mgED---500iu(Mon+Thu)
5(P)--Proviron 25mgED--Kessar 20mgED
6(C)--Kessar 20mgED
7(T)--Kessar 20mgED

Hope this helps any questions please ask

In one of your cycles you run EQ for 4.5 weeks..... EQ hasnt even kicked in by that time; I only started feeling the effects of EQ after 8 weeks and the effects were more pronounced at 12 weeks. Therefore I agree with other board members saying that EQ should be run for about 16 weeks. Test E also only really kicks in after 3 weeks, doing 5 weeks of test E is the same as a 2 weeks of aqua test in my opinion.

I agree that the AQ and winny cycle will work, but Im not convinced by your EOD theory --- I will have to give it a try for myself:) Afterall we are all here to learn and I do respect the fact that you do have more experience than me.

Agreed on the Nolva Deca issue- old cycles and old approaches. BUT i have run each one of those cycle's so I am confident in their results. The sample cycle's page is there for everyone to make a contribution- i have been here since post 1 day one actually before since I helped Admin with a few thngs on the site before it went public. So please guys if you have good cycles you want to add-please do it. If you have run one of my cycles and they worked well-let us know- if it was terrible let us know as well and we will take it off- easy as that. This site went from being 3 guys talking crap about D bol and Depo to a site were I can actually sit back and read and not need to post anything since there is some very informed people making a positive contribution. So i actually take a bit of offense at Mike's statement of it being "ripped to pieces" Mike ur an informed guy- put up some decent cycles for us. Cos its easy to critisize but I havnt seen any other cycle post but mine. Does it make my cycles great- NO ways but it makes me confident enough to post what I believe to be decent cycles for the mayority of people that would come to a website for information on cycles. Which is really an imposible task since everyone here is deifferent and so should their approaces to administration be. I tend to disagree about the whole 10 week Deca 10 week EQ thing. But thats a whole other conversation. Its a double edged sword Run Deca for 10 weeks and yes you will grow but it will take another 6 weeks for you to recover. after that net effect???? Well is it better than running it for 3 weeks with no shutdown? I have run those cycles back to back and they took me from 98kgs to 106kg and afetr PCT I was on 104 for almost a year. I cant take credit for those thou- they are almosr carbon cpies from Building the perfect beast with one or 2 changes like not using Armidex through the cycle since i could afford it. Good cycles , yes- my work more borrwed than created. so everyone that has a decent cycle that they have run please mail it to admin J will sort through them and post them on the site.