"1st" cycle

Afternoon gents,

So the bug has bit me and I'm hoping to do my 'first' cycle next month. I've used some gear about 10 years back, but as I've stated in my previous posts I was very inexperienced and didn't have an awesome site like this with so much info to help me out...only broscience, and it cost me.

My question is, some recommendations for a lean mass cycle that won't break my pocket.
I've gone through the sample cycles, and the Anavar/Prov has always jumped out at me due to it's low sides and quality gains, however the price is crazy. Is hepatotoxicity an issue with this? I've already started taking Essentialle twice a day for the last two months to 'prep' my liver a bit if that is the case.

I know injectables are generally a better bet in that respect; Which of the other cycles will give me similar quality gains that I won't just piss away afterwards?


Thanks,

Oh yeah my stats:

age: 29
weight: 79kg
bf: 15% guestimation (according to the BB.com site)

macros:
F 53.57g
P 246g
C 64.3g

Supplements: whey / creatine / multi-vit / vit-c / flax seed

Anything else you need?

Hey Bro

If I was you I'd go with the beginner bulking cycle, how lean the cycle is all depends on diet.
Or even do a test only cycle if your worried about the dbol bloat it'll work out cheap and you'll have great results on test alone far better than a Var/prov cycle.
As far as keeping your gains post cycle that's up to you keeping as much intensity as possible in your training and keeping your cals just over maintenance.

Also do a proper PCT after cycle.

The best bang for buck cycle I.m.o is a Supertest only cycle. Then if you have the cash AFTER buying PCT 2 meds, then D-Bol and Winstrol with it and obviously liver support.

I lol'd at your bodyfat percentage comment.

Thanks gents,

I'll deffinitely do a proper PCT (2) afterwards.
I'm not familiar with Supertest Pyro, pros/cons of it?

What would the cycle for Supertest/DBol/Wini look like?
I'm very prone to gyno, would it be a good idea to run an AI with it or just have Nolva on hand?

Liver support: will something like Essential+Milk thistle do the trick or is there a specific recommendation?

Thanks!

Do yourself a favour and get a bottle of 3F first so u get that B/F % down more especially
If u think u are gyno prone then do what the guys have told u and yes get a AI....

l1qu1d wrote:
What would the cycle for Supertest/DBol/Wini look like?
I'm very prone to gyno...

Why risk gyno by adding dbols to test. Thats looking for issues.

To add to what oupa said the Supertest will kick in quick so u dont really need a front load ....

mike123 wrote: To add to what oupa said the Supertest will kick in quick so u dont really need a front load ....

This is not always true.... I will always frontload as I am a late bloomer on test, and I know quite a few guys who are too.

Oupa wrote:

l1qu1d wrote:
What would the cycle for Supertest/DBol/Wini look like?
I'm very prone to gyno...

Why risk gyno by adding dbols to test. Thats looking for issues.

Just going on what was recommended earlier?
Will an AI/SERM not prevent that?
I'd be more than happy to dump Dbol, don't like the idea of the extra stress on the liver.

CHAPEL wrote:

mike123 wrote: To add to what oupa said the Supertest will kick in quick so u dont really need a front load ....

This is not always true.... I will always frontload as I am a late bloomer on test, and I know quite a few guys who are too.

Would the short esters not kick in quick with Supertest ? other wise he can frontload with Tbol...

They aren't always as quick for everyone.. I rate front loading. But if he, liquid, doesn't want extra liver strain then leave it out.

mike123 wrote: Do yourself a favour and get a bottle of 3F first so u get that B/F % down more especially
If u think u are gyno prone then do what the guys have told u and yes get a AI....

Thanks Mike, not sure what BF and gyno has to do with each other though? Gyno is glandular tissue enlargement from estrogen/androgen ratio. Unless you're referring to pseudogyno? Regardless though, I have almost no fat on my chest/arms/legs - only a small amount on my lower belly.

I'll deffinitely be following the advice given here.

Basically the higher your B/F % the more gyno prone u could be the Technicalities are on the sight to read has to do with estrogen ....

Mike is correct.. also

(prop frontload or not)

Supertest 320 Esters

Testosterone-Phenylpropionate 40mg (+- 4Days) - Short
Testosterone-Isocaproate 40mg (+-9 Days) - Long
Testosterone-Propionate 40mg (+- 4.5 Days) - Short
Testosterone-Enanthate 100mg (+-11 Days) - Long
Testosterone-Cypionate 100mg (+-12 Days) - Long

80mg is short esters and the 80mg is not pure 80mg testosterone. Remember molecular weight.

Remember this....



Now grab a calculator and work out the % of test in prop esters.

You will need something to boost the first 4 weeks if you are thinking of this as a frontload.

At the end of the day, each to their own and we can only recommend.

For argument sake... example... pinning ED or EOD to get the proper response from Test Prop esters will avg out on 3 pins a week. Thats 320mg x 3 = 960mg of test. (but only 240mg of short esters)

Not enough prop in there

Ah ok, thanks gents.
Sho thanks oupa, had to read that a few times to sink in! :side:

What would you recommend to boost the first four weeks?

Tbol

l1qu1d wrote: Ah ok, thanks gents.
Sho thanks oupa, had to read that a few times to sink in! :side:

What would you recommend to boost the first four weeks?

Lots of sex with your wife. <-- joke

Oupa wrote:

l1qu1d wrote: Ah ok, thanks gents.
Sho thanks oupa, had to read that a few times to sink in! :side:

What would you recommend to boost the first four weeks?

Lots of sex with your wife. <-- joke

hahaha thanks I'm sure that'll be part of the test pros?

Ok, so Tbol/SupT/Prov seems to be the choice.


Dosages:

Tbol 40mg ED? (4 weeks)
SuperT 0.7/0.7/0.6 per week or 1/1/1? (640 or 960mg per week)
Prov: 40mg split am/pm for the duration

How long should this be run for, about 10 weeks?
How long before PCT2 - about 30days?

Thanks,

l1qu1d wrote: Ok, so Tbol/SupT/Prov seems to be the choice.


Dosages:

Tbol 40mg ED? (4 weeks) As GranDad suggested in previous post
SuperT 0.7/0.7/0.6 per week or 1/1/1? (640 or 960mg per week) First cycle 2ml is more then enough, maybe swap for Test enan or cyp.
Prov: 40mg split am/pm for the duration 100%

How long should this be run for, about 10 weeks? Test 10 weeks yes.
How long before PCT2 - about 30days? Roughly, 36 to be safe.

Thanks,

Cyp = 36 days
supertest 45/54 days long wait so consider a bridge ..

mike123 wrote: Cyp = 36 days
supertest 45/54 days long wait so consider a bridge ..

you see this, for me the longest ester in ST is cyp. So shouldn't it be worked out on that?
Also saw that in the article section but not sure why tho?

Most Blends.. Yes its slightly confusing.

I can confirm that recovery was good with PCT3 while working on the longest ester (cyp) in PGW supertest 320.