Second cycle confusion...

Hi friends...
My statistics
Age:40
Height:172cms
Weight: 67.5 kgs
Bf : 12 or 13% not very sure
Training: 2 years (Mon: Biceps/Triceps.. Tue: Legs... Wed: Cardio/Abs... Thurs: Chest/Shoulder/Triceps... Fri: Back/Biceps... Sat: Cardio/Abs)

My first cycle was a major disaster coz of lack of knowledge.. Given below

1-8 weeks with 400mg cypionate Pw
1-8Tri tren mix 75mg Eod
1-3 weeks winny 30mg Ed
9-12 weeks deca 300mg Pw
1-12 weeks proviron 25mg Ed
3-12 weeks nolvadex 20mg Ed as I got prone to Gynomastia
1-12 weeks liv-52 2 tabs Ed

Pct started after 15 days of my last deca inj

1-10 days letrozol
11-35 days Hcg 500iu Ed
11-40 days proviron 100mg Ed
11-60 days Nolvadex 20mg Ed
11-60 days 1000iu vitamin E
11-60 days multivitamins and liv - 52 double standard (4tabsEd)

I have planned my Second cycle as such... Kindly advice me if I'm wrong
1- 4 weeks Dianabol (30mg/Ed)
1-12 weeks Test E (Mon-250mg / Fri-250mg)
1-10 weeks Deca (mon-250mg/Fri-250mg)
13 -16 weeks winny (30mgEd) bridge
1-16 weeks proviron (50mg/Ed)
1-16 weeks Nolvadex (20mg/Ed)

17th week Pct -3 i will apply

I'm looking fwd to good muscle gains in size as I'm only 67.5kgs ... But at the same time I want a very ripped and vascular physique(6 packs)... so I'm confused should I include Deca or not ? Or replace Deca with Boldenon as all of them seem bulking agents ... And Boldenon is a cutting agent ... On the other hand I have clen - T-3 and caffeine even combinations of (Ma- Huang200mg+caffeine-Anhydrous200mg+White willow Bark200mg= 1 capsule) with me ... One more query which will be better prop or Test E ? For my cycle

NO NO NO, You've got it all wrong bud

Sorry, jumped the gun and got soooo excited. Was reading your first cycle

Ok lets break it down. You want to gain some solid mass but from that first cycle, what did you gain as your weight to height ratio and taking bf into consideration, you're a pretty skinny guy with little muscle mass. I know guys who gain good quality muscle on test alone and eating correctly. Looks like you're trying to over complicate things with compounds when i think the issue is what you're eating. Could you post up your diet and lets see where we can help you. This is how you will grow - by eating right not adding a million other compounds to the mix

Solid advice Dave, +1.

Mookee he's right bro, you need to eat enough quality calories, which I'm assuming you're not doing. But we can help you out with that

Thanks a ton bro.... Well before my first cycle I was 63 kgs... And bf was 17%... Thn during my first cycle i touched 71 kgs with 200 grams of protein intake Ed... But after the cycle I lost muscles and weight as I stopped training and diet too... Coz of my shoulder injury so was back to 66 kgs ... So I have started gym again after recovery.. And now planning a second cycle... Which I'm thinking I'll start frm coming Monday....

Do I need to start with finestride and liv-52 before the start of my cycle...?

Can anyone please advice me ....

1) What is your cycle going to be?
2) How does your diet look bro?

You're jumping into something that you're not too sure about. I said you should post up your diet here so we can help you with that. That is your problem. Get that sorted out first and then go on cycle. Simplify your cycle too. PCT doesn't sound correct either - gain some more knowledge on this. Get your ducks in a row first before you jump the gun.

Honestly you are just complicating things and confusing yourself bro..its only your second cycle..so take it easy..you dont need so many compounds in this cycle..id say stick to your basics for now..such as a test only cycle..some good gains can be made here if your diet and training are good enough..and the PCT needed is pretty basic. First do som research before you just jump into something..it doesnt look like you have much knowledge of what you are doing.

Ultimately what would you say your goal is? Do want to compete, or grow to 200kgs, or just to look rediculously good?

Thanks once again frnds.... Well my diet is...

Morning protein shake + 4 scrambled eggs with 4 slices bread ... Sometimes chicken sandwich
Brunch 5 boiled egg whites
Lunch chicken breast and rice with 4 wheat bread
Supper 5 egg whites + 2 bananas before training
Protein shake after training
Dinner chicken breast with scrambled eggs and pulses
Midnight casein shake

My goals is to get massive and vascular/ripped weighing around 80kgs... I'm not in to competition and all stuff... But very fond of body building ... So should I continue with enthnate/boldenone/Dianabol ....?

You aren't eating enough clean calories.

Then eat enough of the right calories. Start by reading DJ's 'Dieting 101' and 'Dieting 102' articles to get a good understanding of why you need to eat and how much. Then contact DJ, through Admin ('Contact Us'), and get talking with him.

Food is the best anabolic thing out there.

Thanks Mk... I'll get myself right with the eating part... But can anyone advice me... The second cycle i have planned is ok...? Or some changes shall be made... I mean anything has to be added or minus.... As I'm gonna start it soon

Hi can someone help me send a link or where can I check Dj dieting article 101/102...

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/10-diet...on/81698-dieting-102
www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/10-diet...on/56925-dieting-101

You really should get your diet sorted first and follow it for a while before you start your cycle. You are very light even for 1.72m and steroids are not going to make you big and ripped unless your diet is completely different, and your training clearly needs to change to focus more on heavy compound exercises so you can pack on some mass.

What does your training routine look like? I'd recommend a HIT routine like Max OT because it is simple to follow and works for anyone who needs to gain. You need lots of complex carbs to pack on muscle mass. At the moment your carbs are bananas and bread- STOP! Cut out all bread. It is the devil. At 40 you will unfortunately have to make more sacrifices to get that body you want. When you start wondering what carbs to eat choose from oats, wholegrain pasta, brown rice or basmati, sweet potato or potato. That's all you need besides your post workout simple carbs. Read those dieting stickies until you know them backwards.

Test E inject Monday morning and Thursday evening. I wouldn't even be doing deca if I was you, and anyway 500mg is too much boet. What are your plans if the deca gives you gyno from elevated prolactin? Nolvadex can aggrevate that, not help it.

Hi Muscleaddict thnxs for the suggestions... I have already changed my diet chart.. And have hired a trainer from yesterday for my training... Well I didn't get Gyno frm deca... But i can drop it from the cycle and might add it in my next cycle.... On my last cycle when I was on cypionate and tri tren mix... I felt a slight sensation in my nipples so for precautionary I had added Nolvadex ...

Well I changed my cycle now...

Test E 1-12 weeks (Mon 250mg / Fri 250mg)
Dianabol 1-4 weeks 30mg Ed
Proviron 1-12 weeks 25mg Ed
Nolvadex if required
If anything else required please do let me know...

Hi Friends...
I'm starting my cycle from today... Can any one guide me... Is it fine if I self administer Test Enthanate in my thigh... 1ml = 250mg with needle 21

Mookee the Devil wrote: Hi Friends...
I'm starting my cycle from today... Can any one guide me... Is it fine if I self administer Test Enthanate in my thigh... 1ml = 250mg with needle 21

Bro...seriously. Everyone on this board has been telling you to sort out your diet and do more research. Yet you go ahead and basically start your cycle despite everyone's advice!!

And back to your initial question, no second cycle is not good. You are running test/dbol combination which carries the potential to cause gyno. Your solution is to keep nolvadex on hand which is a serm and not an anti-estrogen. If you get any signs of gyno and use nolvadex and still refrain from following up with a proper ai, you will get gyno again when stopping the nolvadex due to the high levels of free estrogen in the system. In your last ccycle you were running tri-tren which is a nor-progesterone derivative. Using nolvadex for prolactin/progesteron related gyno will do nothing but exacerbate the problem. I think you were lucky with ur first cycle as the sensitive nipples was more than likely estrogen as opposed to progesterone related. However, this may indicate that you are indeed to prone to estrogen-induced gyno.

and what has finasteride got to do with anything. Its a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor meaning that it prevents testosterone converting into dht. By using finasteride on a cycle you are only increasing your chances of getting gyno as DHT is a natural antagonist for estrogen.

Your pct is also shocking. My apologies for being blunt, but it seems that you are clueless about nutrition, training and AAS, and are one of those guys who believe they gonna get big and ripped off gear and fresh air alone. Seriously dude, you messing with your health and could possibly cause irreversible changes to your physique if you not careful.

Muscleaddict wrote: Cut out all bread. It is the devil.

MA please will you elaborate? Thanx in advance.

OK I was being kinda sarcastic but I do believe that if you are trying to get ripped then CUT OUT BREAD as it is a crap source of carbs compared to the alternatives. Ideally you want your carbs from 100% unprocessed sources like oats, brown rice, sweet potato etc. Carbs that are fortified and manufactured might seem good when you read the label but you will not get the same results in the mirror as clean complex carb sources.

Now of course if you are a 25 year old guy who stays 8% bf lean quite easily then you could get away with eating bread, but Mookee is 40 and wants to get abs but eats 8 slices of bread a day?! No chance. Also, with clean complex carb sources you eat them plain and add your protein -CLEAN. With bread one too often ends up adding margerine, or low fat mayo, or sauces and unnecessary stuff.

This might seem a bit anal but I can tell you from my experience as someone who has to eat right for a sixpack that when my training is spot on, diet almost spot on except for eating bread instead of good carbs then sure I can look pretty good but without drugs my lower abs will not show. When I eat only oats, brown rice, basmati and sweet potato for carbs the difference in my body is totally noticeable and my abs come out. I used to eat lots of low gi bread but when I cut all bread out the difference was huge. If you're bulking then of course that is a different story. DJ pretty much has a mantra that bread = no, and we've all seen the results of his programs.

Muscleaddict wrote: OK I was being kinda sarcastic but I do believe that if you are trying to get ripped then CUT OUT BREAD as it is a crap source of carbs compared to the alternatives. Ideally you want your carbs from 100% unprocessed sources like oats, brown rice, sweet potato etc. Carbs that are fortified and manufactured might seem good when you read the label but you will not get the same results in the mirror as clean complex carb sources.

Now of course if you are a 25 year old guy who stays 8% bf lean quite easily then you could get away with eating bread, but Mookee is 40 and wants to get abs but eats 8 slices of bread a day?! No chance. Also, with clean complex carb sources you eat them plain and add your protein -CLEAN. With bread one too often ends up adding margerine, or low fat mayo, or sauces and unnecessary stuff.

This might seem a bit anal but I can tell you from my experience as someone who has to eat right for a sixpack that when my training is spot on, diet almost spot on except for eating bread instead of good carbs then sure I can look pretty good but without drugs my lower abs will not show. When I eat only oats, brown rice, basmati and sweet potato for carbs the difference in my body is totally noticeable and my abs come out. I used to eat lots of low gi bread but when I cut all bread out the difference was huge. If you're bulking then of course that is a different story. DJ pretty much has a mantra that bread = no, and we've all seen the results of his programs.

Without jacking this threat, whats your thoughts on cheat meals MA and how often do you have them, if you have them at all while cutting

Muscleaddict wrote: OK I was being kinda sarcastic but I do believe that if you are trying to get ripped then CUT OUT BREAD as it is a crap source of carbs compared to the alternatives. Ideally you want your carbs from 100% unprocessed sources like oats, brown rice, sweet potato etc. Carbs that are fortified and manufactured might seem good when you read the label but you will not get the same results in the mirror as clean complex carb sources.

Now of course if you are a 25 year old guy who stays 8% bf lean quite easily then you could get away with eating bread, but Mookee is 40 and wants to get abs but eats 8 slices of bread a day?! No chance. Also, with clean complex carb sources you eat them plain and add your protein -CLEAN. With bread one too often ends up adding margerine, or low fat mayo, or sauces and unnecessary stuff.

This might seem a bit anal but I can tell you from my experience as someone who has to eat right for a sixpack that when my training is spot on, diet almost spot on except for eating bread instead of good carbs then sure I can look pretty good but without drugs my lower abs will not show. When I eat only oats, brown rice, basmati and sweet potato for carbs the difference in my body is totally noticeable and my abs come out. I used to eat lots of low gi bread but when I cut all bread out the difference was huge. If you're bulking then of course that is a different story. DJ pretty much has a mantra that bread = no, and we've all seen the results of his programs.

Isn't low gi sead loaf alright? I have 4 slices every day, probably my favorite carb source of the day...