Letro (how well does it actually work)

Right quick chat here...

Letro suppresses 98% estrogen, bla bla bla...

Ok, now tell me this, at 2.5mg Letro and 900mg+ test I got gyno...

Then I dropped to 600mg test and the gyno never appeared to get worse... Now what I’m doing it testing Letro 1mg p/d at 900mg test and my gyno worsens, drop down to 600mg test and no further gyno...

I have a feeling that yes Letro suppresses 98% estrogen levels (natural), but I have a feeling once you start pushing to much test it doesn't actually work any further. And I also believe there is no difference what so ever in 1mg and 2.5mg per day... after a certain amount of test I believe it just doesn't do jack shit...

I am going to test this theory again with 0.5mg and then again on 0.25mg Letro before I go for another Gyno op and see if adding Letro above a certain mg per week actually makes any difference... This test will take around 1 year to complete with the different variables.

And then it’s up to people to either have a choice on believing (theory) or actual life proof.

At this point I can clearly say I see no difference between 1mg Letro and 2.5mg...

Anyone have any further comments on this topic?

December 2008 and Jan 2009 I was using about 750mg Test as a 2 month cruise through the holidays. Wanted to stay as estro free as possible so I used the Letro (LP) at I kid you not, 2,5mg+/day* for the entire 2 months. Did zilch to help, no side effects nothing. :ohmy:
But to add, I am pretty estro sensitive, but still...

Seriously not good news, I am on a 750mg pw Testocyp & tbol cycle and have letro on hand for when the estro monster comes knocking. Now it's not gonna work? Shit!

I think you might have something there... 00pump. I also struggled with gyno and had allot of chats to Doctari on the subject and one thing I noticed is that he also believes that over 1mg you are not going to hit the gyno harder but rather the side-effects.

It also seems to take some time for letro to fully kick-in, where Adex is allot quicker and much more easy to control. Doc talked about studies that showed 0.5mg Letro for two months to suppress estrogen for the 98% mentioned.

I've never really taken Letro for longer than a few weeks on its own, it's always been with Parlodel or Cabaser and the best results were when I used 1mg Cabaser with 1.5mg Letro. The side-effects was also masked by the Cabaser so things were easier to cope with.

You see, it seems you have the same situation as me... i bet if you dropped it to 500/600mg it would have worked and it would not have worked better on 1mg or 2.5 mg... hmm, this is very intresting, glad you had the same results... it doesnt help for people that are not sensative to estrogen like us, they all like take 0.25 ...... yes great if you don't have sides, no I wonder how much more effective adex is? and I wonder if rather doing something like raise DHT (masteron/winnie, etc) levels take a low dose of a SERM and take 0.5mg Letro would this actually reverse gyno, I know for certain bromo doesn't help... now maybe an increase in DHT just might be what can do the trick? I know I get gyno if I supress DHT levels... I need to continue this trial and see what woks, I have to do it in stages not to get confused with what is actually working or not.

also 0.5mg supressed 98% estrogen levels (when one hasn't taken gear and estrogen is in the normal ranges) now we bump it up to 2.5mg imagine the plaque that is being formed from the raised cholesterol (heart attack / strokes) (LDL??)

00pump wrote:

also 0.5mg supressed 98% estrogen levels (when one hasn't taken gear and estrogen is in the normal ranges) now we bump it up to 2.5mg imagine the plaque that is being formed from the raised cholesterol (heart attack / strokes) (LDL??)

Yes, those results were from normal men and not steroid users... One thing about Letro I don't like is the cholesterol and loss of libido that sometimes last for months after use.

I will rather advice people to use Letro only when other medications like Adex has no effect. Adex is more expensive, but is so much easier to control.

Aromasin is also worth looking at, but it is so damn slow to start working.

Well just to add another instance,

B4 the cycle I mentioned earlier, I ran prop at about 500/600mg and tren at about 300mg and used Adex (UG lab not LP) at about a 1/3 of a mg/day and started to feel sides, like muscles feeling dry/tight if that makes sense, after about 2/3 weeks.

**(just another comparison for you)

admin wrote:

I think you might have something there... 00pump. I also struggled with gyno and had allot of chats to Doctari on the subject and one thing I noticed is that he also believes that over 1mg you are not going to hit the gyno harder but rather the side-effects.

It also seems to take some time for letro to fully kick-in, where Adex is allot quicker and much more easy to control. Doc talked about studies that showed 0.5mg Letro for two months to suppress estrogen for the 98% mentioned.

I've never really taken Letro for longer than a few weeks on its own, it's always been with Parlodel or Cabaser and the best results were when I used 1mg Cabaser with 1.5mg Letro. The side-effects was also masked by the Cabaser so things were easier to cope with.

hmm, I would imagine to know if its kicked in or not is 0% sex drive on 600mg test? Thats where im at, at this moment? I think the way to know whether its 'balanced' and you taking the right ammount to supress excess estrogen would be to lower it in stages of 2 weeks, drop to 0.75 then down to 0.5, etc untill you get a sex drive but no notice the gyno getting worse, once you have found that magic number you are supressing the max ammount of estrogen letro will supress based on what you taking, for me I know I can't go over 600mg, so now to prevent hindering to much gains and losing sex drive, find the magic number for the letro, and if need be hit the gyno (and prevent it from happening at different angesl)

maybe, use something to raise DHT, DHT = natrual AI... then use a SERM at maybe 10mg Nolva and 0.25mg letro? Yes I know people believe not to use the two, however when I did I noticed no difference in the effect of the Letro... the only way is to test this theory which will take time and I don't want to change to much, I need to find what ammount of letro I can use on 600mg test and still have a libido then work to the 3rd/4th, etc phase of my trial.

admin wrote:

00pump wrote:

also 0.5mg supressed 98% estrogen levels (when one hasn't taken gear and estrogen is in the normal ranges) now we bump it up to 2.5mg imagine the plaque that is being formed from the raised cholesterol (heart attack / strokes) (LDL??)

Yes, those results were from normal men and not steroid users... One thing about Letro I don't like is the cholesterol and loss of libido that sometimes last for months after use.

I will rather advice people to use Letro only when other medications like Adex has no effect. Adex is more expensive, but is so much easier to control.

Aromasin is also worth looking at, but it is so damn slow to start working.

Exactly or we go the route of Adex at a controlled dose. how long will a thing of LP Adex last and what is the advised dose .5 ? And Taking Aromasin what dose 20mg pd?

Also if we go the route of Adex we can use it through PCT for better recovery without the loss of sex drive?

BB_guy wrote:

Well just to add another instance,

B4 the cycle I mentioned earlier, I ran prop at about 500/600mg and tren at about 300mg and used Adex (UG lab not LP) at about a 1/3 of a mg/day and started to feel sides, like muscles feeling dry/tight if that makes sense, after about 2/3 weeks.

**(just another comparison for you)

what are you saying? that the adex was working? even at 1mg of letro my knees are so dry I cant leg press 80kgs and it hurts walking down and up stairs... I must drop dose from end of this week I am just going to get myself some masteron and see what happens when I raise DHT levels and see if it helps with supression of any further gyno sides, remeber i'm talking about puffy nipples not lumps, yes my right side has now developed a small lump and usually if you have puffy nipples it will eventually turn to hard lumps.. hence I must make these tests before I go for surgery, so i'm holding off my next op till I know what works and what doesn't on my body. another 13k is not really worth the money i'll be throwing away untill i know for certain what works...

00pump wrote:

admin wrote:

00pump wrote:

also 0.5mg supressed 98% estrogen levels (when one hasn't taken gear and estrogen is in the normal ranges) now we bump it up to 2.5mg imagine the plaque that is being formed from the raised cholesterol (heart attack / strokes) (LDL??)

Yes, those results were from normal men and not steroid users... One thing about Letro I don't like is the cholesterol and loss of libido that sometimes last for months after use.

I will rather advice people to use Letro only when other medications like Adex has no effect. Adex is more expensive, but is so much easier to control.

Aromasin is also worth looking at, but it is so damn slow to start working.

Exactly or we go the route of Adex at a controlled dose. how long will a thing of LP Adex last and what is the advised dose .5 ? And Taking Aromasin what dose 20mg pd?

Also if we go the route of Adex we can use it through PCT for better recovery without the loss of sex drive?

1mg Adex is a good place to start. Let me know how much Adex you will need as one LP adex last a month at 1mg... I'll see what I can do for you...

I use Aromasin in my PCT, because I follow Doc's PCT to the letter... will get you some of that as well.

00pump wrote:

BB_guy wrote:

Well just to add another instance,

B4 the cycle I mentioned earlier, I ran prop at about 500/600mg and tren at about 300mg and used Adex (UG lab not LP) at about a 1/3 of a mg/day and started to feel sides, like muscles feeling dry/tight if that makes sense, after about 2/3 weeks.

**(just another comparison for you)

what are you saying? that the adex was working? even at 1mg of letro my knees are so dry I cant leg press 80kgs and it hurts walking down and up stairs... I must drop dose from end of this week I am just going to get myself some masteron and see what happens when I raise DHT levels and see if it helps with supression of any further gyno sides, remeber i'm talking about puffy nipples not lumps, yes my right side has now developed a small lump and usually if you have puffy nipples it will eventually turn to hard lumps.. hence I must make these tests before I go for surgery, so i'm holding off my next op till I know what works and what doesn't on my body. another 13k is not really worth the money i'll be throwing away untill i know for certain what works...

I suppose this is not a good comparison cause of the huge difference between the 2. Just adding info to your post,use it or lose it

Just to through a spanner in the worx Pump,
You say the gyno didn't get worse when you dropped down from 900mg to 600mg. How do you know that the gyno actually could get worse, how much more puffy can the nipple area actually get once it is puffy? (not sure if that makes sense)

admin wrote:

00pump wrote:

admin wrote:

00pump wrote:

also 0.5mg supressed 98% estrogen levels (when one hasn't taken gear and estrogen is in the normal ranges) now we bump it up to 2.5mg imagine the plaque that is being formed from the raised cholesterol (heart attack / strokes) (LDL??)

Yes, those results were from normal men and not steroid users... One thing about Letro I don't like is the cholesterol and loss of libido that sometimes last for months after use.

I will rather advice people to use Letro only when other medications like Adex has no effect. Adex is more expensive, but is so much easier to control.

Aromasin is also worth looking at, but it is so damn slow to start working.

Exactly or we go the route of Adex at a controlled dose. how long will a thing of LP Adex last and what is the advised dose .5 ? And Taking Aromasin what dose 20mg pd?

Also if we go the route of Adex we can use it through PCT for better recovery without the loss of sex drive?

1mg Adex is a good place to start. Let me know how much Adex you will need as one LP adex last a month at 1mg... I'll see what I can do for you...

I use Aromasin in my PCT, because I follow Doc's PCT to the letter... will get you some of that as well.

Sounds good, let me finish another week of so trial here, I need to find out what ammount I can run the letro and get a sex drive back.. then i'll see the effects of Adex and bump the test back up to 900mg and see what works better on a higher dose of test... i'm sick and tired of reading these american lame ass forums that people suck bullsh** out of who knows where and rather do these tests myself.. It would also be a great way to confirm what Doctari said to you and eliminate all the nasty side effects.

I do know in the past Adex was a poor choice for gyn reversal but so is everything in my eyes, I have yet to see a substance that can get rid of gyno and I have tried crazy things for months on end. The trick is to stop it in the first place and not have nasty side effects, i'm damaging my body so much more from running SERM's (toxic, blurred vision, etc) and Letro at high doses (heart attacks, low sex drive, joint pain, etc) that I actually don't get to enjoy my cycle anymore.

The best thing about a cycle for me was being as horny as a dog now I don't know the last time I was even slightly on edge, as soon as the cycle is over i'm not even 5% recovered (time wise, 3 months+) and i'm on another cycle with such supressed estrogen levels..

yes ive done all the tests test levels perfect range when off a cycle, but -650% sex drive.

BB_guy wrote:

00pump wrote:

BB_guy wrote:

Well just to add another instance,

B4 the cycle I mentioned earlier, I ran prop at about 500/600mg and tren at about 300mg and used Adex (UG lab not LP) at about a 1/3 of a mg/day and started to feel sides, like muscles feeling dry/tight if that makes sense, after about 2/3 weeks.

**(just another comparison for you)

what are you saying? that the adex was working? even at 1mg of letro my knees are so dry I cant leg press 80kgs and it hurts walking down and up stairs... I must drop dose from end of this week I am just going to get myself some masteron and see what happens when I raise DHT levels and see if it helps with supression of any further gyno sides, remeber i'm talking about puffy nipples not lumps, yes my right side has now developed a small lump and usually if you have puffy nipples it will eventually turn to hard lumps.. hence I must make these tests before I go for surgery, so i'm holding off my next op till I know what works and what doesn't on my body. another 13k is not really worth the money i'll be throwing away untill i know for certain what works...

I suppose this is not a good comparison cause of the huge difference between the 2. Just adding info to your post,use it or lose it

Just to through a spanner in the worx Pump,
You say the gyno didn't get worse when you dropped down from 900mg to 600mg. How do you know that the gyno actually could get worse, how much more puffy can the nipple area actually get once it is puffy? (not sure if that makes sense)

At 900mg around 4cm/5cm around the nipple was (very puffy more focusing on from the nipple towards the middle of my pec) doesn't matter how tight the rest of my body was 9/10% bodyfat? When I drop to 600mg that whole area tightens up and its around 2/3cm (the other side is around 1cm )

00pump wrote:

BB_guy wrote:

00pump wrote:

BB_guy wrote:

Well just to add another instance,

B4 the cycle I mentioned earlier, I ran prop at about 500/600mg and tren at about 300mg and used Adex (UG lab not LP) at about a 1/3 of a mg/day and started to feel sides, like muscles feeling dry/tight if that makes sense, after about 2/3 weeks.

**(just another comparison for you)

what are you saying? that the adex was working? even at 1mg of letro my knees are so dry I cant leg press 80kgs and it hurts walking down and up stairs... I must drop dose from end of this week I am just going to get myself some masteron and see what happens when I raise DHT levels and see if it helps with supression of any further gyno sides, remeber i'm talking about puffy nipples not lumps, yes my right side has now developed a small lump and usually if you have puffy nipples it will eventually turn to hard lumps.. hence I must make these tests before I go for surgery, so i'm holding off my next op till I know what works and what doesn't on my body. another 13k is not really worth the money i'll be throwing away untill i know for certain what works...

I suppose this is not a good comparison cause of the huge difference between the 2. Just adding info to your post,use it or lose it

Just to through a spanner in the worx Pump,
You say the gyno didn't get worse when you dropped down from 900mg to 600mg. How do you know that the gyno actually could get worse, how much more puffy can the nipple area actually get once it is puffy? (not sure if that makes sense)

At 900mg around 4cm/5cm around the nipple was (very puffy more focusing on from the nipple towards the middle of my pec) doesn't matter how tight the rest of my body was 9/10% bodyfat? When I drop to 600mg that whole area tightens up and its around 2/3cm (the other side is around 1cm )

Ya, was saying the Adex seemed to work alright in that case, felt some side and no puffy nipps(although a shitty comparison)

LOL! dude, you took my saying and made it your sig (LOL) Sure I will help you. Can you just remove a guy standing in his underwear off your profile please!

hahahaaaaa, that was a little strange though wasn't it.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I hope you don't mind

I had a lekka laugh that day...

not at all, schweet

A stupid Question Pump, but why not run non-aromatising goodies with like a low maintenance Test dose.

Another thing to consider is it's dose dependant as you're dealing in percentages. Even if the letro dose reduces estrogen conversion by 98% (which is in non steroid using individuals, may well not translate into 98% reduction in steroid using individuals) you're test at 900mg per week is very high compared to the average man. So 2% conversion at these test levels can amount to a fair amount of estrogen if you are very sensitive.

You were also saying that bromo helped a lot on your last go, so maybe it is a combination of both prolactin and estrogen gyno.

BB_guy wrote:

A stupid Question Pump, but why not run non-aromatising goodies with like a low maintenance Test dose.

I am going to do that now, you just don't get the gains you do on high anabolic / androgenic steroids. But not fret that will be my idea, unless I finally work out this gyno saga once and for all. Going to go with the suggestion of adex and see how that works first...

Yohimbe wrote:

Another thing to consider is it's dose dependant as you're dealing in percentages. Even if the letro dose reduces estrogen conversion by 98% (which is in non steroid using individuals, may well not translate into 98% reduction in steroid using individuals) you're test at 900mg per week is very high compared to the average man. So 2% conversion at these test levels can amount to a fair amount of estrogen if you are very sensitive.

You were also saying that bromo helped a lot on your last go, so maybe it is a combination of both prolactin and estrogen gyno.

It very well be, but when I did go for bloods prolactin was fine, so its very difficult so say, i think mine is just estrogen related and i'm very sensative...

Right status update...

Letro dropped down to 0.5mg and I started getting sex drive back after day 5, however nipples are starting to feel sensative and a little 'tingly' I also can see i'm holding allot more water and my blood pressure has gone up quite abit, I find I am also allot warmer and swetting more.

Move Letro up to 0.75mg and sex drives has also dropped, not as bad as 1mg, 1mg = 0% sex drive, 0.75mg = there so, but not the greatest, 0.5 = very horney, 0.25 around the same sex drive as 0.5.

So my conclusion, 0.75 is a nice dose not to worsen gyno running at 600mg of test and 600mg EQ however you don't have the best sex drive but your blood pressure is looking quite nice.

0.5mg brings the sex drive back, gyno gets worse and your blood pressure really shoots up. The nice thing about dropping down to 0.5 is that ones knees do not take a hammering it feels like I need Q20 when ever i'm above 0.75mg even at 0.75mg I feel that way.

At 1mg of Letro I can hardly push 60kgs on my legs without my knees taking a huge hammering, even being strapped its painful and after a leg session I have problems walking up and down stairs or even bending over as my back and everything is feeling it.

I am going to move my tests over to adex now and see what personal experience I can come up with...

I'll also take Admin's advice and i'm going to do the proper doctari PCT and i'll paste up both my results 4 weeks after a cycle and see what the difference is, sperm cells, estrogen, test / free test, etc.

Sweet

I can say that letro works for me. My test is around your upper mark right now (~1g) and I am using low doses of letro (around 0.5mg a week). I certainly picked up some water in the early weeks, but this has actually gone down. In fact I do not have the puffy face that I usually get on and people that know I cycle think I am not on cycle. Most of my weight gain has been quality muscle thusfar from the prop component of my cycle. My BP is lower than its ever been on cycle. However there seems to be fluctuations in my estrogen control. I get some dry joints that come and go, and bloat seems a little noticable at times. My libido is not overly aggresive as it has been in past cycles, so the letro is controlling that to, but it is higher than normal so still positively effected. I actually think I am in a borderline control zone where my estrogen is fluctuating just above or below my ideal zone. It took me two cycles of listening to my body to find a comfortable zone for my letro usage, and I think I am responding well. Certainly we will have to see if 3months in I am still responding in the same way.